Do your moral beliefs affect your relationships with people?

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So recently I had a rather fierce debate with a girl friend of mine that involved abortion. I am very, very pro-life and my friend is not. Whilst it didn’t really end, and we are still friends I feel that it has caused some friction between our friendship. Now we did not insult each other or anything, the debate was just, fierce and involved putting forward a ton of controversial views.

So I’m asking, how does you being against gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-this government or against this government, against piracy, in favor of piracy, the death penalty, etc… affect the way people look at you? I myself am pretty conservative when it comes to these things (pro-life, absolutely against gay adoption, waiting until marriage) although I do think I’m pretty open minded (I’m not against contraception nor showing physical signs of affection towards your partner). Are you close to people who hold the opposite of what you believe?
 
It is like with anything else: Some people can cope with people whose guiding principles are different than their own, and some people can’t.

I have found that the “culture war” is getting to be more “war-like” than ever before. Those who don’t see eye-to-eye are not seen by others as wrong-headed. They are seen as bad people, as undesirables, as people who ought to be banned. This is on both sides.

For instance, there was a fellow being interviewed by some reporter about the idea that homosexual tendencies were intrinsically disordered. The reporter asked him “Are you saying that homosexuals are mentally ill?” as if he wanted his subject to say that someone who has a disordered passion deserves to be locked up. The mainstream media is dropping all semblance of “balanced” coverage about it. It is like Mario Cuomo’s infamous recent remark: “Who are they? Are they these extreme conservatives who are right to life, pro-assault weapons, anti-gay? Is that who they are? Because if that’s who they are and they’re the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York because that’s not who New Yorkers are.”

Yes, he came right out and said it:* If you don’t agree with me, you’re not welcome in the State of New York.* That is where politics is going.
 
mrajax said:
So recently I had a rather fierce debate with a girl friend of mine that involved abortion. I am very, very pro-life and my friend is not. Whilst it didn’t really end, and we are still friends I feel that it has caused some friction between our friendship. Now we did not insult each other or anything, the debate was just, fierce and involved putting forward a ton of controversial views.

So I’m asking, how does you being against gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-this government or against this government, against piracy, in favor of piracy, the death penalty, etc… affect the way people look at you? I myself am pretty conservative when it comes to these things (pro-life, absolutely against gay adoption, waiting until marriage) although I do think I’m pretty open minded (I’m not against contraception nor showing physical signs of affection towards your partner). Are you close to people who hold the opposite of what you believe?
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My family. I love them and try not to fight with them, because I am never going to change their views.

I think they might see as ‘farther right’ than Ann Coulter and Barry Goldwater to the tenth power.

Friends, that’s different. Finding it hard to make or maintain friendships with people who cherish certain viewpoints.
 
mrajax said:
So recently I had a rather fierce debate with a girl friend of mine that involved abortion. I am very, very pro-life and my friend is not. Whilst it didn’t really end, and we are still friends I feel that it has caused some friction between our friendship. Now we did not insult each other or anything, the debate was just, fierce and involved putting forward a ton of controversial views.

So I’m asking, how does you being against gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-this government or against this government, against piracy, in favor of piracy, the death penalty, etc… affect the way people look at you? I myself am pretty conservative when it comes to these things (pro-life, absolutely against gay adoption, waiting until marriage) although I do think I’m pretty open minded (I’m not against contraception nor showing physical signs of affection towards your partner). Are you close to people who hold the opposite of what you believe?
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Yes, I am close to people who hold some views that oppose my beliefs, but keep in mind that a lot of hot button issues today need understanding so that the truth is explained properly. Some examples where it’s ‘not just belief but facts’:
  1. Abortion kills a life. That’s a fact. The woman, and sometimes the man, makes a choice. Adoption is one good alternative.
  2. This country is experiencing an STD epidemic. Why? Casual sex with whoever and the fact that there are a lot more STDs out there than there were in the 1960s. Who decides when you have sex? The Church? The State? No, you do.
  3. Realize that the media is constantly putting wrong messages out there. And too much of it is based on emotion and accusation, not facts. Get the facts from reputable sources and present the facts to people. Take so-called Gay Marriage. Why was it on the ballot? Who needs my or your approval to live how they want? Is everybody you know irrationally afraid of homosexuals? Do you run and hide when your gay coworker walks by? Seriously, people need to understand they are being manipulated, and not by facts.
I watched a sports figure on TV at the hospital waiting room I go to. He kept repeating: “Stop being homophobic.” Who was he talking to? The 80 year old lady next to me in a wheelchair with an oxygen tank? 5 year old Billy who just wants to play with his friends and likes baseball?

Seriously, we need to present facts and expose the emotional accusations that all people are like that as wrong generalizations, not facts.

Be polite. Be civil. But present the facts calmly and with understanding. And as a learned man told me: “Too many people worry too much about what other people think of them.” Just be honest. Stop talking when the other person hurls false, emotional or abusive accusations at you, but at least try your best. Just say, “I didn’t mean to start a fight.”

Peace,
Ed
 
It’s not my place to fire arrows of righteousness at my friends/family. It never leads anywhere except people thinking of less as an individual and more like a brainwashed zealot. Which would damage relationships that are very important to me. I have gay friends and if they would want to marry… fine, im not going to go out of my way just to spite them and be all high and mighty about it. Obviously they will never “marry” Catholic and that is that. Nothing for me to do there…

If im asked about my thoughts on abortion. I will do just that. Share my opinion… but then defend it? Ain’t nobody got time fo dat. Frankly its to boring, there are other things to talk about. More productive things to think about.
 
I think it’s less about the moral beliefs held and more about how each person responds/explains those moral beliefs ie the persons personality. Some people will require you to accept everything they believe in to be friends, others will just not understand how to communicate in a friendly way and almost get on a very high pedistool and can become quite aggressive and arrogant.

My husband is atheist, I’m very much Christian…we hold some morals the same, but some not and we are married. I have friends who are pagan, Christian, agnostic, atheist and I’m sure I have completely different views to some (to be honest it rarely comes up), but we all have the personality of being interested in what other people say, expressing our opinions when requested in a kind and thoughtful way but in no way compromising our beliefs and we don’t expect that of each other.

The people from my old church I struggle to get on with even when I share some of their views because they are arrogant and aggressive and judgemental. Depending on the circumstances, some people I just won’t talk about certain topics especially if they are sensitive to it.

On a side note, it’s always nice to see atheists/agnostics who have strong morals! 🙂
 
I am pro life, against gay marriage and very religious and I have very close friends with radically different views than mine. One of my best friends from teenage years is a lesbian atheist though I have to say that particularly with her debating the issues is easy because she does understand that me considering homosexuality a sin does not mean I am personally against her plus she is a very rational person who can have a good discussion with you and while not agreeing with you, understandingyour argument. I have another good friend who is agnostic fierce anti catholic, sincerely I don’t even know how we ended up as friends. She is fierce pro abortion , radical feminist and pro gay movement so with her discussions are a little more heated but I think the key is respect and understanding that while we disagree on major points on the background we both care for others and want respect for other humans. I have another lvery good lesbian friend who is a cafeteria catholic and is the kind wishing for the church changing its position; that friend knows I don’t agree with gay marriage and she knows that I don’t see her relationship as a marriage despite having entered into a so called marriage but again with her respect is basic and there are many other more things that we agree and care about, she respects my position and we discuss things from a very respectful point of view. Those are three quite close friends and besides them I also have several other not that close friends/acquaintances who are agnostic and radical feminist. Again I think the key is respect and finding a common ground despite major differences. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I believe is possible to get along with others despite differences. Of course is so much easier when you agree in almost everything but being able to get along with people who don’t share your views is possible and I think is something we should all learn.

My grandmother use to say that the reason why God doesn’t allow us to choose our families is because is a way to teach us that we need to learn to get along with other despite different views. I always thought that makes sense because truthfully that inability is what causes much of the hate in the world. As to your friend I would say try to find a common ground. Why is she so fiercely pro abortion? In my friend’s case is because she cares about the woman’s condition and she just doesn’t know any better. It is not because she is evil instead she is just seeing a reality and doesn’t know any better way to deal with it. Maybe your friend position comes from a similar point of view. If you focus into that and are able to communicate to her in a respectful way that you too care about the woman, the discussion flows so much easier. It is not going to make her change her mind but you two can find a respectful common ground from which expressing your views with respect.

Now I don’t know how close you are with that friend. The first three ones I mentioned are very close friends and who I think is easier to discuss things because they know me and again they don’t think my belief come from being homophobic or being anti women. Maybe if we are talking about someone who doesn’t know you that well it can be a little complicated. I usually let people know me better in a personal level before getting into those discussions. With acquaintances they know I am a practicing catholic and Iddon’t believe in certain things but I don’t get into deep discussions with them.

So my advice is if she is a person that has know you for long there should be no reason for different view to harm a friendship. Find your common ground, be respectful and predicate not with your words but with your example.
 
Well yes sometimes. Mostly its not a problem, my friends and i sometimes debate fiercly, and i even debate with some of my family members. But there are some people that really don’t tolerate your beliefs. But from my experience, most if not all, get used to your beliefs
and sometimes even start to consider them.
 
I imagine the secular people think of me as ultra-religious. However, I try to be caring and loving in all my interactions. I use reason and logic as much as possible in arguments. I stay calm and don’t raise my voice. They might not agree with me but usually see the value in having me around.

It is naturally hard to be close to someone that disagrees with core Church teachings, but it’s not impossible. The pro-life vs pro-choice issue is only truly critical between a couple planning kids. If you are just friends, you are free to disagree. It won’t affect your future lives. You can pray to God to change their mind and discuss the issue when they are interested, but that’s about it.

With pro-choice specifically, a lot of people will get angry if they have had some personal experience with it. A woman who had an abortion might feel guilty when a pro-lifer argues their point. That guilt can quickly turn into anger. Similarly, a man may have had a friend or relative who got an abortion. They may be truly sad at what happened and turn that sadness into anger directed at you.
 
Yes, my morals effect my relationships with people. It doesn’t take much for people to show how anti-Christian or generally anti-religious they are when you just mention that you are religious. I have stopped investing in relationships with secular people and prefer to keep it superficial. Those of other religions tend to be more respectful I think.
 
My morals affect my relationships with people because I make it quite clear that I will not tolerate dirty jokes nor nudity on TV so no one wants to bring me around their other friends. That is just the way it goes.

As for getting into debates, I avoid it because frankly, I believe in speaking my truth quietly will be more powerfull in the end.

Now, I am going to assume you are a guy. First off, as someone else said, if you say abortion is wrong the angrier a woman gets, the more likely she had one in the past and does not know how to deal with the hurt. That is not a hard and fast rule, but no matter what anyone says, after having an abortion, just the word will often trigger pain a woman does not want to think of.

Secondly, as much as I am against abortion, I find it really out of line for a man to say ‘abortion is wrong’. Like everyone else, I am tainted by my experience and I have seen one too many so called good catholic men march against abortion and then turn around and go to the strippers and buy pornography. They expect forgiveness and understanding and would NEVER march against stripper club or pornography so I find it hypocritical they would say abortion is wrong. If you want to win a woman over and help her see your point of view, next time say ‘isn’t it sad that some men are so disrespectful to women that these poor women end up in situations where they feel the only solution is abortion. How I wish men would learn to respect women and not expect anything before marriage.’ IMO that would keep the debate from getting heated

Angie
 
I probably don’t have many concerns over this since I am not working and mostly hang out with family members and we are pretty much on the same page.

I try not to get into conversations where I push my moral values or political views on others and I expect the same sort of respect back. Part of my moral viewpoint is that it is uncharitable not to allow others their point of view. I am extremely uncomfortable with anyone who must spout their political views and moral convictions, especially in an aggressive way. On the other hand, I do enjoy listening to intelligent and calm expressions of points of view. Doesn’t offend me or sway me. Unfortunately, though, if someone has very different moral view from mine, it does lessen my desire to be friends. That may be something that came with age, knowing who I am, and what I want my life to be about.

If I get into a debate with anyone, which I try to avoid, it is probably going to be because of something personal between us. I do have a bit of a problem with thinking I am more intelligent than another person at times and sometimes I get frustrated at things another person says. But I am smart enough to know that. LOL:D
 
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