Docetism

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neptasur

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Hello,

A friend (who is a “Bible Christian”) argues that there is no need for Purgatory because the justified in this life only need to work at sanctification because of the corruption of the flesh (ala. St Paul in Romans). Once the body dies, the justified person has no need of a final purification because their soul is already perfect (sanctification is just for the flesh).

Aside from being Docetic and reducing sanctification to mere physical death, what do ya think?
 
The theory would seem to relegate anything impure in our minds and hearts to body exclusively, distinct from the soul. If we have an attachment to sin or something like that, it would be something that does not involve our soul, somehow. Bizarre.

My guess is part of the underlying problem may be a misunderstanding on the part of your friend concerning what exactly the soul is and its relationship to the body. I think you are probably right to see a connection to the whole Docetist/Gnostic/Cathar strain of heresy.
 
neptasur said:
Hello,

A friend (who is a “Bible Christian”) argues that there is no need for Purgatory because the justified in this life only need to work at sanctification because of the corruption of the flesh (ala. St Paul in Romans). Once the body dies, the justified person has no need of a final purification because their soul is already perfect (sanctification is just for the flesh).

Aside from being Docetic and reducing sanctification to mere physical death, what do ya think?
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but what if a person dies with a grudge against someone for calling him stupid?Where is the flesh in that?
 
Sounds almost Manichean.

Seems to me that you might suggest Mark 7:18-23.

The basic premise here would suggest that it is the soul of the individual, what makes one oneself, that part that lives on, is the thing responsible for impurity and sin. If that is the case, and sin arises from the soul, then we have no reason to believe that mere death does anything to alter the inclinations of that soul.

I would also reference them to the catechism, paragraphs 1987-1995, to make sure that you both mean the same thing with justification and sanctification. Your friend may not believe the catechism, but this will at least make sure that they understand what you believe as a Catholic and you can begin with a common vocabulary.
 
Thanks to all.

He has an easy escape from any critique of his claim because any reference to evil choices can be brushed off as referring to the unjustified, and any evil choice by the (truly) justified can be attributed to “the flesh” and not the soul. So regarding the Mark 7 quote, he would simply it is not referring to the truly saved.

It seems to me (for now anyway) that the only approach that could work is if the person accepts the validity of reason and sees that the person is not something separate from the body, but is a composite whole. Maybe I’m wrong.

Docetism is apparently a complex little heresy! ha, ha

Any thoughts?
 
Oh, BTW, Thanks Kerath25 for the point on defining terms about justification and sanctification. I’m actually quite efficient at translating from Protestant to Catholic, and back again when it comes to that. I always allow him to define the terms and I employ his usage.
 
Hey, I was thinking on this thing . . . his claim only adds more words to the question; it doesn’t do anything to resolve it because the question remains: why does the justified person need to struggle against the flesh in this life if his/her soul is already perfect?

Why would struggling against the flesh be necessary unless it was to purify the soul? (ala St. Paul in Romans: suffer with him to be glorified with him, etc)
 
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