Doctrinal Uncertainty and Papal Infallability?

[Kaben123]

Greetings.

My question is about Papal Infallability. Let us take the example of unbaptised babies. As far as I understand it, nothing has been pronounced infallibly on what happens to them after death, which means that it is uncertain. But if the Pope has the power of declaring with 100% certainty on issues of morals and faith, why doesn’t he simply say what happens to them? Isn’t he guided by the Holy Spirit in such matters?

If he has to deliberate it intellectually before declaring it (and might not be able even then to reach a conclusion), then how is he different from anyone else? What does it mean for him to be infallible if he has to do what everyone else does? What does it mean to be guided by the Holy Spirit, and how does he know when he is right?

 

[snarflemike]

Neither the Pope nor the bishops in Council can demand that the Holy Spirit reveal something. The Holy Spirit acts as he will, when he will.

 

[mpoore72]

The Pope is not infallible he can teach from the seat of Peter the things that are revealed to him by the Holy Spirit as infallible teaching because it is from God not his own feelings. Some things are revealed immediatly and some will be revealed later. hope that helps.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Greetings.

My question is about Papal Infallability. Let us take the example of unbaptised babies. As far as I understand it, nothing has been pronounced infallibly on what happens to them after death, which means that it is uncertain. But if the Pope has the power of declaring with 100% certainty on issues of morals and faith, why doesn’t he simply say what happens to them?

Well, for the same reason the Pope didn’t declare the Immaculate Conception infallibly prior to the mid-1800s, or that the teaching authority of the Church at large (i.e., the bishops) didn’t determine infallibly that Arianism was in fact contrary to the truth of Christ’s nature prior to the inception of the heresy. *The circumstances didn’t call for it. *

Isn’t he guided by the Holy Spirit in such matters?

Yes.

What does it mean to be guided by the Holy Spirit, and how does he know when he is right?

As to your last quesiton: In order for the pope to say something infallibly, he has to be speaking in his full capacity as pastor of the entire Church (not a mere theologian or preacher). He must intend to bind the whole Church, and with his supreme apostolic authority, he must be defining doctrine. Of course, as doctrine, infallibility covers only matters of faith and morals. When these conditions are met, the Pope is said to be speaking *ex cathedra–*as the supreme teacher of all Christians.

(Note: these seem like technical points, but they are really obvious conditions. Basically, they converge into something like this: God will protect his Church from error when the earthly leader of His Church is speaking to His Church on matters about God and His Church.)

So the Pope can trust that God has led him right, for it is upon him that the keys of the kingdom have been entrusted.

If he has to deliberate it intellectually before declaring it (and might not be able even then to reach a conclusion), then how is he different from anyone else? What does it mean for him to be infallible if he has to do what everyone else does?

Remember what infallibility is and is not. It is immunity from error. It is not inspiration. In inspiration, God prevents error **and **controls what is said. So the Pope is different from everyone else in that he IS protected, when conditions are met, from teaching error to the universal Church. He does have to pray, read, and study like everyone else, though. The infallible document is a human document: it is not the product of divine inspiration.

The Pope has to do his work like the rest of us (in the sense of studying) precisely because of the nature of infallibility. One document may even “sound smarter” than another, because he has to put in his own efforts, though still guided by the Spirit, to understand the doctrine.

 

[catholic1seeks]

The Pope is not infallible he can teach from the seat of Peter the things that are revealed to him by the Holy Spirit as infallible teaching because it is from God not his own feelings. Some things are revealed immediatly and some will be revealed later. hope that helps.

I see this was your first post! Welcome to CA!

Not to be too picky, but be careful using the word “reveal.” The period of God’s Revelation to Man is over; there is no new public revelation. All of God’s teaching to man has culminated with his Son, and through him, the Apostles. The Holy Spirit does guide the Pope, but not with new revelations. The pope is infallible on special occasions, and the purpose of infallibility is to interpret and protect the Truth revealed by Christ.

 

[DavidFilmer]

The Catholic Church recognizes the “deposit of Faith,” the divine truth revealed to the Church during the time of Jesus and the Apostles. The Church can only teach (or clarify) what is contained in this original deposit. The Church cannot ever know or teach divine truth beyond this deposit of Faith.

 

[mpoore72]

Thanks for the welcome and you are correct about using the word reveal. I should choose my words more carefully. Thanks see you online. God Bless

 

[MarcoPolo]

nothing has been pronounced infallibly on what happens to them after death, which means that it is uncertain.

Also, this statement (as I think it is meant) is not quite true. Although the Church currently has hope in the salvation of baptized infants (CCC#1261), you could not expand the above statement to all teachings. It is possible for a teaching to be infallibly taught via the Ordinary Magisterium, that is, consistency throughout the centuries by the Pope and the bishops in communion with him, without there being a formal pronouncement specific to that teaching.