1: Discipline (if even that)
John Paul III said:
The Church’s teaching on both of these points is doctrine.
No. Most Church doctrine does not have an infallible statement associated with it (some theologians use the term “dogma” to describe doctrine which has been infallably proclaimed). But anything which is taught by the Ordinary and Universal Magesterium is doctrine (and must be accepted by the Faithful), regardless of whether there’s a piece of paper somewhere with it written down and signed by a bunch of Bishops.
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160
Humanae Vitae is the Church teaching you’d want to use.I’ve been sponsoring for the first time in RCIA locally and was never so aware of cafeteria catholicism as I am now. But these folks, many of them anyway, truly don’t know what the church teaches or what is doctrine and what must be followed. And now I’m confused.
The deacon who is leading the RCIA and my small group leader as well as all the other sponsors (baby boomers all) insist that contraception is a matter of personal conscience. Am I right in insisting in return that it is an act of disobedience? They use Evangelium Vitae and the fact that it does not use the infallible formula to then say it can be changed and therefore does not have to be adhered to. When we asked our priest for clarification he gave a 15 minute answer that left me thinking he agreed with me and everyone else believing he agreed with them.
Is there an official source somewhere that I can refer everyone to? Besides the fact that I grew up without the proper chatechesis and still believed we must obey this teaching, that is.
(No wonder thier kids aren’t catholic. If the parents teach that you can toss doctrines and ignore magisterial authority at will… Isn’t that what protestantism is about?)
Our catechumins are confused. They come to us for answers and all they’ve recieved are excuses, after every discussion they just sit quietly looking puzzled, and I feel lonely. Should I keep pressing this issue with them or disagree in silence since even the slightest and most passive mention of obedience to any moral doctrine earns some pretty nasty stares? Am I, infact, correct about obedience being necessary?
I am so confused.
)
God bless you, keep you and protect you!
This is addressed in that article I linked to at the CA library, at the end under the sub-title “Wishful Thinking”:
The problem isn’t so much that they disagree with it, as much as they do not accept the concept behind infallibility with regard to the magesterium. That’s the greater argument which needs to be addressed. Once one gets that, the rest falls into place.
I could only laugh to myself in utter disbelief!! Up until that moment I had credited her devotion to Catholicism for my own steadfastness and now…geez. :whacky: But I will keep it in mind as a last resort.
YinYang, that’s EXACTLY it. They don’t understand infallibity and they don’t want to because then they would have to change their lives. Don’t misunderstand, these are really terrific people, and they are all involved in a great deal of charity work. Plus, they are my elders and I feel wierd correcting them, especially with the stricter point of view. But a few are genuinely interesting in learning, though, and this is very encouraging.The problem isn’t so much that they disagree with it, as much as they do not accept the concept behind infallibility with regard to the magesterium. That’s the greater argument which needs to be addressed. Once one gets that, the rest falls into place.
Somewhere, somehow (and I say this from personal experience because I clearly remember it being the teaching which guided me for years yet can’t recall for my life where I got the teaching) these people were taught ‘officially’ (I went through 13 years of Catholic school - 1-9 and university, with the 1-9 taught mostly by nuns) that Catholics are obliged to make their life decisions from properly formed consciences.
Well, that’s true,** but** these teachers forgot to tell us about the part about how one goes about forming that conscience (or we weren’t paying attention to that part when it was taught at a specific point but not reinforced in later years) so they grow up believing they have the right to rely on all the information floating about and then make a choice - without even looking into what the Church writes or says on the subject!
Please resist any temptation to be harsh on them or their teachers. No point to that. Just be glad God brought them to you so that they can learn the Truth and you can grow in your faith through the exercise of having to deal with their misconceptions. Keep praying for their minds to be opened to God’s Truth and for patience and charity for you as you try to help them.
I’m only now beginning to understand why I’m the last practicing magesterium loyal Catholic in my family after hearing my mother say the other night about my now-baptist brother, “He has a wonderful relationship with Jesus and is raising his children to love and honor God. It doesn’t matter that he isn’t teaching them about the sacraments. Every religion claims to be the right way to honor God, we don’t have the right to impose ours on everyone else. You sound just like the evangelicals.”
Yeah, I was one of them. Thank the Lord and JPII for this forum which woke me up from my sleepwalking!
I think she’s just tired and not willing to ruffle feathers. She really wants the four of us (her children) to maintain ties and open communication for when she and my dad are no longer with us. But on one hand she’ll lament about how little she sees of my brother and his family because they are fundamentalists and they want to minimize contact with us Catholics, yet when I speak about my approaching him about his obligation as a Catholic she tells me not to say a word.
I think you’re right about that. They were Baltimore catechised and they did what they were supposed to do without questioning the why, including sending us to Catholic schools and making sure we had the sacraments, but I clearly recall once we were confirmed, they no longer fostered continuing devotion/education. We were on our own and I believe they believed that was the end of their obligation.