Doctrine Questions

[Catholic_Dude]

bjcros:

Does The Church teach that we(humans) choose God first? I don’t think I ever said that you get off scotch free when you sin. If I did I know that is wrong. There will always be consequences. Granted those consequences may not be immediate but there will be some. So you believe Christ’s blood doesn’t cover all your sins?

Im not sure I know what you mean by “first”? A human would know nothing about God much less know how to choose God unless God instilled/revealed it to them to a certain degree.

Back to the consequences stuff. I think we are talking past each other, I am saying there are consequences concerning Heaven and Earth, while you seem to be saying there are only earthly consequences. When I think about the sin of murder, The Church/Bible teaches that if a guy murders someone he cant go to Heaven if he hasnt repented, at the same time on earth he should be punished by jail or death penalty. You seem to be skipping the losing of Heaven part and only claim that the person deserves the earthly punishments of jail or death penalty, while it has no lasting effects on his ticket to heaven.

About the covering all sins. I still didnt get a response to your claim that armenians believe that Christs blood didnt cover all sins. What does that mean, and what sins are they?
Also why is the term “cover” used? The sins arent covered like a disease waiting to spread once the medicine wears off, instead they are supposed to be gone. Im guessing you agree and thats just the term you use? I never said that His blood didnt cover all our sins, it did, otherwise there would be unforgivable sins and there arent any, except outright rejecting Christ.

 

[bjcros]

Catholic Dude:

Im not sure I know what you mean by “first”? A human would know nothing about God much less know how to choose God unless God instilled/revealed it to them to a certain degree.

Back to the consequences stuff. I think we are talking past each other, I am saying there are consequences concerning Heaven and Earth, while you seem to be saying there are only earthly consequences. When I think about the sin of murder, The Church/Bible teaches that if a guy murders someone he cant go to Heaven if he hasnt repented, at the same time on earth he should be punished by jail or death penalty. You seem to be skipping the losing of Heaven part and only claim that the person deserves the earthly punishments of jail or death penalty, while it has no lasting effects on his ticket to heaven.

About the covering all sins. I still didnt get a response to your claim that armenians believe that Christs blood didnt cover all sins. What does that mean, and what sins are they?
Also why is the term “cover” used? The sins arent covered like a disease waiting to spread once the medicine wears off, instead they are supposed to be gone. Im guessing you agree and thats just the term you use? I never said that His blood didnt cover all our sins, it did, otherwise there would be unforgivable sins and there arent any, except outright rejecting Christ.

I’ll start with the Armenian stuff. I use to preach free will and that it was my decision to choose God and I kind of waved that in God’s face. I’m not saying everyone does the same. I never really thought about predestination. but when I started to think about it I figured out that Calvinism seems more biblical of the two, and I can’t have any pride cause there aint nothing that I’ve done, but what he did. My problem with Armenians and those who claim free will, is that it then seems like my will is greater than God’s(but it isn’t). If someone doesn’t accept God yet their sins were paid for(as Armenians believe), then why is God justified in punishing them? Their sin was paid for on the cross, yet they were still punished for the sins. That isn’t a just God. But God is just. I say we have free will to do evil, and it is us. but when we do good it is God working through us.

I do agree that all your sins are paid for or whatever word(s) you want to use. I just use covered.
If Christ paid the price for all my sin(which he did), then my debt is paid. Correct? Am I still to be held accountable when my price has already been paid?
Some people use the analogy that our sin has us in jail. Jesus offers us freedom and guides us out but if we fall away then we are still in bondage. I’m gonna change this slightly. We are in prison, Christ brings those who he was choosen out. When we stumble, we stumble but he gets us back up.

I like this issue because our salvation doesn’t depend on what we believe about this. It is not an essential.

 

[MariaG]

posted by bjcros

I say we have free will to do evil, and it is us. but when we do good it is God working through us.

This is what Catholics believe. We can choose to turn from God, and do evil. Or we can choose to respond to the grace God gives to us and choose to do good. The good we do is only made possible through the grace God first made available to us. So all glory and honor belong to God, not the “do gooder”.

 

[Ignatius]

Lorarose:

These issues have been addressed hundreds of times on this forum.
If you go to the “search” function and type in words like. . . . . .

Lararose, we are called to put on Christ and show charity . We have here someone seeking, let’s start with “welcome” and try to help out a little bit.

God Bless.