Documenting an abusive marriage?

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masondoggy

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There is a person in my life who is stuck in the middle of an emotionally/verbally abusive marriage. Every time I talk to this person, I am appalled at the things that are said/done to her, especially the things that are done/said in front of the small children. I’ve had enough.

She is staying because she fears losing custody of her kids (which I think is ridiculous, she’s a great mother, very stable person), she fears he’ll get vicious and drag her through the mud.

I’ve decided to start documenting everything she tells me in a diary. I don’t know if it’ll ever do any good, but my instincts are just telling me to do it. My question is, should something like this be done by hand in a notebook or diary, or is it sufficient to do it on my computer? Any tips, advice, something? I just don’t know what to tell her anymore.
 
Anything you write will probably be only hearsay. This woman needs to get out of the marriage of her own volition.
Once I tried to help a friend in marital need and it turned into a HUGE mess. My husband told me never to get involved in someone else’s marital woes.
 
RWMorris said:
Anything you write will probably be only hearsay. This woman needs to get out of the marriage of her own volition.
Once I tried to help a friend in marital need and it turned into a HUGE mess. My husband told me never to get involved in someone else’s marital woes.
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I’m already involved because she confides everything to me. I don’t intend to poke my nose in any further. I have told her several times to get out, but she’s scared. There’s nothing more I can do but be there to listen.
 
That’s all you can do is listen. Sounds like you are doing the right thing, being a good friend.
 
I do think what you are doing is a good idea. My mom had actually done the same thing for me, because I was just too overwhelmed mentally to even do that. What she wrote did end up being useful when I filed a restraining order and I needed to list when and what happened. It is very useful to have the date, time, context, and what exactly was said and done.
 
Hi everyone. I was in a relationship where abuse took place and all I can recommend is DOCUMENTATION! What did I use, a video camera.

Documentation is VERY important.
 
Writing everything down on paper would make me feel better, because our computer’s hard drive has crashed, wiping out everything.

Does she recognize she’s in an abusive relationship? If she does, there is a national domestic violence hotline that she can call.

ndvh.org/

God bless you, Mason.
 
Truly_Beloved said:
Writing everything down on paper would make me feel better, because our computer’s hard drive has crashed, wiping out everything.

Does she recognize she’s in an abusive relationship? If she does, there is a national domestic violence hotline that she can call.

ndvh.org/

God bless you, Mason.
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She acknowledges that things he does/says are abuse. But I think she downplays in her mind how bad this is for the kids. She is convinced it’s better for the kids that they grow up in an intact home. Her kids are also very, very young and she says she can’t handle the idea of being seperated from them for visitations or a joint custody situation. I can’t really blame her for feeling that way, no mom wants to be seperated from her toddler for several days at a time. But imo, this situation should override those concerns. Her son is going to grow up thinking it’s ok to call her and his own wife names.

She told me just today that they had a fight because she went to get her hair done. She was “gone too long” (3 hours). He started saying to her that “she put her hair before her kids”, because she dared leave them with their dad and the 6 month old baby got off schedule, then he called her stupid and unintelligent…something that her 2 year old some immediately repeated.

When she called him on it about saying things like that in front of the kids, his response was “I don’t care”. :mad:

This isn’t the first time he has called her names in front of their son, and it’s not the first time he repeated it.

Last year when she was pregnant, they got in a fight after he came home drunk. He lost his temper and said (while holding their son in his arms), “I could just push you into that wall right now.”. She was so upset that she started having contractions and had to go to the ER,and she missed the next day of work.

She tells me that he is mean and beligerent when he drinks. This really scares me.

He is controlling. He forces her to keep their kids on a very strict, rigid schedule and if she doesn’t have those kid down for a nap right on schedule, or feed them right on schedule, he gives her hell for it. I’ve told her several times that he uses this schedule business as a means to control her and keep her home. He actually calls her from work to make sure she’s home and the kid is down for a nap in time.

The situation is just really, really bad and she needs a lot of prayers right now. She’s too afraid to leave right now and there’s not much I can do about it. I think there will come a day where she’ll get fed up and leave, but I just pray that happens before this turns physical. 😦
 
Keep doing the documentation; that you have it will keep him from accidentally discovering it.

You are in a most painful position - you can’t that much until she asks. Keep the door open and tell her you will be there when she is ready to leave. And when she leaves may be the most dangerous time as it typically is for a woman escaping violence.

Know the number of the shelter/advocacy center in your area so they can go over options/safety planning when she is ready. This link is from the USCCB; if she’s Catholic she may want to know she has the church’s support.

I don’t have much else to offer, you are spot on about the other issues you mentioned.

I will pray, too.
 
I’ve thought of another good reason to keep up the documenting: she’s probably living from incident to incident, dealing with each one individually so she can get through each day without losing her sanity. When she finally reaches the breaking point and comes to you for help, you can show this to her when she starts to waver in her resolve. Looking at all of that history in a black and white hard copy might give her the incentive to pull herself and her children out of that abuse.

God bless you, masondoggy (and your friend, too). You’re a true friend to her.
 
masondoggy said:
The situation is just really, really bad and she needs a lot of prayers right now. She’s too afraid to leave right now and there’s not much I can do about it.
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You can call the hotline, and let them know what’s going on, so they can help you help her. You might get some very helpful information that will comfort her fears surrounding the possibility of taking her kids and getting out of this situation.

Many shelters accept women and their children (as long as any boys are under a certain age), and the shelter’s job is to keep the victim hidden from the perpetrator.

Just something to look into. :signofcross:
 
Monica, with that type you can never keep the peace. No matter what you do to minimize the situation, he ratchets it up and incites things to give a reason to take out his aggression on the wife. And by your suggestion, you are playing into the whole idea that it is the woman’s fault she is being abused.

This verbal abuse WILL turn physical. He has started threatening to hit. Next thing will be destroying her property in front of her. That is a substitute for attacking her. Then she is next. And he will do it in front of the kids.

KEEP documenting! She needs you to do this. Because right now she is being told no one will believe her. The fact that you believe her gives her hope that she isn’t really crazy.

Take photos if you can. See if you can hide a tape recorder and get his abuse on tape. When you write things down, have her look at it, and then sign and date it. That verifies that she agrees and gives it credence that it isn’t hearsay.

Help her develop an escape plan. Help her hide money away. Take photos of her children so she can see the scared look in their eyes. It’s hard to admit that they are unaffected by the abusive household when they look sad in the photos.

But understand one thing. A man who checks on her from the office is a time bomb. No matter how she tiptoes around and tries to placate him, she may keep the volcano from erupting, but she will be a basket case before long. Then he will claim she is crazy and he deserves the kids.

She is not staying because she wants this. She has a wrong idea of what an intact home is. Her home is only intact from the street view. The people who live in it are going to be broken before long.

You need to document his drinking. How much and when.

I’m sure he’s a volcano at the office also. And he probably takes that out on her.

She will leave him only when her fear of living with him outweighs her fear of living without him. But she can’t see yet that fear is not a reason to live with someone. Her children watch her cry. They absorb the mood of the household. They probably act out. They repeat his abusive words.

She needs to know that if she can prove the abuse and alcoholism, any visitations between him and the kids could be mandated by the courts to be supervised.

A man who resents being left with his own children for three hours while his wife shops and has her hair done may not want full custody. He may not be able to take care of them anyway. She shouldn’t consider that when she makes her decisions. She needs to get out of there before she loses teeth or gets a broken bone.
 
Coming from a verbal and abusive relationship it is not easy to get out. I hid this from my family for year and years. And the abuse carried on for years and years. My kids were still so young when they were exposed to all this. My friends knew about it I used to tell them and they saw me with bruises and all.

And my friends were very supportive and understanding until one day one of them was very harsh towards me saying that you have been telling us these stories for years and years and you are doing nothing about it is seems as if you like walking around with blues eyes and bruised up body. There is just so much we can do for you the rest is up to you. If you want to end up in a coffin one day you know what and that I am selfish and spiteful why am I subjecting my kids to a life of pain and suffering and letting the kids see this man beating you to a pulp and swearing at you and embarrasing you in front of your kids. Do you want your son to grow up and think that it is okay to hit your wife/girlfriend or you daughter to think it is exceptable for her husband/boyfriend to hit her. I was so angry with her and did not speak to her for a long time she told me that she does not care what I think and say she is still my friend and still loves me and I need to WAKE UP.

My God was that a shock to me. Eventually after been pushed down a flight of stairs I left him and opened a case against him. He got such a shock and never expected me to ever do that. But from that day he never ever lifted a hand to me. We are no longer together because he cheated on me with a much younger women and left me and the kids but that is another story.

There is so much that you can do for you friend and you can document it but she needs to be the one to make that step to do something about her situation. She can justify it whatever way she wants to but she is allowing this to happen. Do you think that the court is going to give an abusive man custody of the kids, does she think that it is exceptable for her small kids to be around a man like that, does she think following his schedule and doing things the way he wants them down is going to make a difference the answer is no. Sorry to say this but you are entertaining her one day that man is going to beat up and she is going to except it and make another excuse. Abuse is abuse no matter how you sugar coat it, it is abuse. I woke up after 8 years and if I had done something years ago maybe it would have been easier. Whether I want to admit it or not what happened between my ex and me has affected my kids in someway. My son is 9 years old now he was still so young and he saw so much that he is such a sensative boy and cries very easily and with a result he gets bullied alot.

Your friend is very aware of her situation but she needs to be the one to decide about her future. Documenting what has happened to her is fine and well. But eventually it is going to affect you but she needs to stand on her own to feet and decided is this the life she wants for her kids and for herself. There is so much that one person can take before they snap. And sorry to say like this but somebody is going to end up getting hurt either her or she will one day end up doing something to her husband.

Pray about this situation and ask God for guidance. She needs to get into counselling and to get herself a job been totally reliant on him is not helping the situation.

God bless and hang in there, there is a light at the end of that tunnel.
 
masondoggy said:
…She is staying because she fears losing custody of her kids (which I think is ridiculous, she’s a great mother, very stable person), she fears he’ll get vicious and drag her through the mud. …
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Sounds to me like she’s married to a control freak. My concern is what is happening to the children. And don’t say nothing. If they are in that home THEY KNOW. and THAT is emotional abuse.

Kathy
 
You’ve gotten so much good advise, and I haven’t read each thoroughly, but want to say:

If she thinks it is better for the kids, she is dead wrong. My wife was in a similar relationship for 10 years. There were five children born to the marriage. The older kids (more exposure to their dad) wound up with more emotional problems. It is an almost direct correlation.

Do document, but don’t beat her up. Pray hard for her and with her. Ultimately she will have to make this decision, but do all you can to help her.

May God help and guide you in this situation

James
 
Thank you to those who have shared their abuse stories. I know that’s not easy to talk about. It really helps to remind me that I’m not overreacting and I’m doing the right thing by telling her to get OUT. That’s a hard decision to make as a Catholic. I don’t want to have to answer to God for contributing to a marriage breaking up. But it’s hard to make sure this really qualifies as an “abusive” marriage when it’s not physical yet.

I guess I should probably say that the person in this situation is my sister. I didn’t really want to publicly say that to protect her privacy, but anyways…what is really frustrating me is that my mom is downplaying the whole situation. She’s just not taking it seriously at all. I just talked to her last night and she insists that she can’t advise ds to divorce him because that’s not her place to do that. She’s not sure yet that the Church would allow a divorce in this situation (I have TRIED to explain to her that the Church allows divorce because of abuse), she keeps saying that she doesn’t think it’s gone far enough yet to justify divorce, that she wouldn’t be any better off because she’d still have to deal with him because of the kids, he’d make her life hell, the kids would still hear him call her names, she thinks ds would be financially destitute and only be able to afford to live in the ghetto (even though she is a teacher)…she also insists we just need to rely on prayer to convert bil, which I agree but that still doesn’t mean ds shouldn’t get out before something bad happens!

I just can’t get through to her how serious this is and that we need to listen to all the warning signs that are BLARING in our faces.

I don’t know. If ds is hearing from her own mother that it’s not time to get out, no wonder she stays. Right now I am really frustrated with my mom.
 
masondoggy said:
… But it’s hard to make sure this really qualifies as an “abusive” marriage when it’s not physical yet.

She’s not sure yet that the Church would allow a divorce in this situation (I have TRIED to explain to her that the Church allows divorce because of abuse), she keeps saying that she doesn’t think it’s gone far enough yet to justify divorce, .
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Ask your mom what good a dead Catholic does? And don’t say “look at the saints”
Why does it have to wait until it “gets physical”? What happens if when it “gets physical” the kids are involved? Don’t worry…that’ll happen.

Kathy
 
Dacinom said:
I sincerely apologize if I gave the impression that I think it is a woman’s fault if she is being abused. Based on the information that was given in the posts…I get the impression that this man can be very mean, but I am not sure if I agree that “with that type you can never keep the peace”. This means that this man is beyond all hope and I guess I did not get that impression. Many people here are making the assumption that this man is out of control and that everything is his fault and he is an abuser and she should divorce immediately…I guess I got more of the impression that he could be really mean at times and has a temper but his wife wants to stay.

He was mad at his wife for getting her hair done and called her “stupid”. This is mean and there is no excuse. Unfortunately marriages are complicated. Unless he is a total monster and she is a total saint then this situation involves two imperfect people. He has not laid a hand on her up until now and has not threatened her so perhaps there is hope for him and their marriage. His wife seems to think so.

I know I will probably get blasted because it seems like I am taking his side but I am trying to help. I see no point in documenting, persuading her to get out or listening to her vent about his anger since it does not seem to be helping her at all. If he threatens her or assaults her that is a different story, but if he has a bad temper and she knows it, perhaps they can work it out.

I am trying to hope for the best here since that is what his wife wants and they have children. If he really is a monster then I am wrong and she should leave. I guess the way I read the posts I thought maybe there was hope…but I could be wrong. Hope this helps clarify my thought-process.
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Well, that’s what confuses me and my mom. We don’t know if there is hope right now or not. Maybe with a lot of prayer, he will change.

But now there is a pattern being established of this stuff happening right in front of the kids and that really, really concerns me. I just found out last night that my nephew was really upset after that incident the other night and insisted on sleeping with his mom in her bed. He wouldn’t go down in his own bed.

THAT tells me right there that this is affecting him. And I’m not going to wait around to find out whether or not it causes this kid emotional destruction. I have made the decision to actively persuade her to get her kids out of there before it’s too late for them. God forgive me if I’m wrong on this decision. 😦

I also wanted to add that my sister really does go out of her way to please him and keep the peace. She follows his “rules” just to keep him happy. But it’s not working. She’s walking on eggshells all of the time and he’s an expert at finding something to criticize her for. See, this isn’t just about him losing his temper. He doesn’t have to lose his temper to put her down, tell her everything that goes wrong is her fault, she can’t do anything right, she’s a bad mom because she didn’t do something right with the kids etc, etc…How long is it going to be before she has absolutely no self-worth or self-esteem left to be the mother that she has to be for her kids or to have the strength to get out and make it on her own? He’s already breaking her down, I can see it. But it’s only going to get worse and I fear what’s going to happen.
 
That’s the problem with abuse. It is insidious. And those who haven’t been through it don’t understand the big deal. It’s like the frog in the pot of water. By the time you realize you’re boiling, it can be too late to get out.

It IS NOT about a man with a bad temper, though they do have that. It IS NOT about a man who calls his wife names. Though they do that. It is about a whole personality type (and they all think they are such individuals!) that is very predictable and goes by a pattern that inevitably leads to a very bad place.

To draw a comparison with drinking… if a man with a bad temper or who gets in a fight with his wife once in a while is a guy who drinks a beer once in a while, a wife abuser is a raging alcoholic.

And their abuse is a soul-killing enterprise that may even end up killing the body if it goes to its natural conclusion.

NORMAL husbands don’t check on their wives and keep them on a schedule and call them bad mothers. NORMAL husbands will let the wife go get her hair done and won’t browbeat her. NORMAL husbands don’t scream abuse at their wives in front of the kids. NORMAL wives don’t have to scramble to please their husbands in order to keep the peace. NORMAL husbands don’t threaten to hit their wives.

I don’t have to be in that house. I lived it. I promise you that he has already told the wife that her sister “is a troublemaker.” He probably hates her sister now. Because she sees right through him. She has figured him out. He can’t control her. So his next step will be to sow division so that his wife won’t have contact with her sister. He will systematically try to destroy her emotional relationships with those who support her. So that in the end his is the only voice she hears as he tells her she is worthless, stupid, ugly, no one else wants her, a bad mother, responsible for the kids’ pyschological problems, etc.

This kind of behavior goes far beyond a man getting home from work and yelling that dinner isn’t on the table. Though they will yell about that. Every little thing in life becomes an excuse for rage and vitriol. It gets to the point the woman is tiptoeing around in her own soul. And little things like the car being low on gas are an occasion for panic because he will blame her for it and she will catch hell.

NORMAL wives don’t have to live in such a constant state of panic and fear that the normal day to day problems in a household will all be turned on her and she will be condemned for them. NORMAL women don’t have to worry that if the kids aren’t in bed by 8:30 p.m. sharp she will have to endure an hour-long tirade about how much she sucks as a wife. And then the list of all her past faults and failings is brought out and reexamined at the top of his voice.

Such a man is out of control completely. The less control he has over himself, the more he seeks to impose it on those around him. It has nothing to do with her being a total saint or not. It has to do with an environment where she is not allowed to be human like all the other women on the street. She is not allowed to have any needs of her own, any feelings that do not completely agree with his, any ideas that do not dovetail with his. Any time she steps out of line, she will be smacked back into line.

This type of personality is harder to cure than drug addiction. And just because he hasn’t hit her yet doesn’t mean he won’t eventually do so. Not all verbal abuse results in physical abuse, but all physical abuse starts with verbal abuse.

And I completely disagree that her sister is not helping her by listening. Her sister may be the one person who is telling her she ISN’T crazy. My xh told me no one would believe me when I said he was abusive. He told me everyone thought I was crazy and they pitied me behind my back. When you only hear that behind your closed doors, it is not an incentive to seek help. Later I found that they didn’t think I was crazy. They really thought he was a jerk.

When it gets to the point that a woman is reaching out and breaking the silence and saying she is afraid to leave, there is a problem that can’t be ignored. Because NORMAL women don’t have that conversation. Women in stable environments don’t express fear of leaving. They don’t WANT to leave it.

There is nothing sanctifying about such a “marriage.” It leads eventually to the complete doubt of the very love of God. It can destroy faith in the souls of the children who witness it. It can lead to murder, suicide and other situations where children are left completely without spiritual guidance.
 
Continued…

When I went to my MIL and tried to tell her about her son’s behavior, she told me she didn’t want to hear it. It wasn’t her problem. She believed him when he told her I was crazy. When he divorced me she came down to help him take my children from me. She has spent over 8 years cleaning his house and taking care of the children during his visitations, writing his checks and cooking his food. And he eventually turned his abuse on her. Now she believes me. She is leaving tomorrow. She can’t take it anymore. She is afraid of him now. All he does is scream obscenities at her in front of the kids, tell him who she can talk to (as you may guess, she is FORBIDDEN to talk to me. Because that kind thinks they can tell adults who they can have conversations with.) And he told her he wanted her out of the house by the end of the month. She is 73 with heart problems. (He had her sleep on the couch for 8 years and clean his house without pay.) When he found out she was leaving, he went ballistic. He told her she could stay in town. (Because he still needs a maid. He just didn’t want her in his house anymore.)

Now she believes me. Like many people, she didn’t want to see his temper for what it really was. She didn’t want to believe he was completely abnormal until she was locked in the horror herself. Now she NEVER wants to see him again. He’s her only child. And she has had him say to her twice that he “should have shot her long ago.”

When someone asks for help, don’t ever tell them they are imagining it. Don’t ever tell them to scramble harder to keep the peace. It’s only a false peace if that’s what they are doing.

And yes, it continues to the next generation with the kids. My oldest came home from visitation in tears last night. It has dawned on her that when her grandmother is gone, she will be totally isolated there. She will be the next target for his ranting and punishments. Because he is always seeking to punish her for something. And she cried and said she won’t have an “ally” there. Because in that kind of environment it is emotional warfare where you need “allies.” It is not a normal father/child relationship. Her younger siblings are not at the same level of understanding she is. It’s that screwed up. If you had any idea the tears I’ve shed over how he’s messing them up spiritually and emotionally for the rest of their lives by his treatment of them. He stole their childhoods. And he won’t even admit to them that they saw him hit their mother. He said their mother (he won’t call me by my name) has put that in their head and he never did that… because now it’s time for him to make them doubt their own thoughts and feelings and perceptions also. So that’s the view from 12 - 16 years down the road from children whose first phrase was “f–ing b—” because they heard daddy scream it at mommy when they were very little.
 
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