Documenting an abusive marriage?

[masondoggy]

I don’t have to be in that house. I lived it. I promise you that he has already told the wife that her sister “is a troublemaker.” He probably hates her sister now. Because she sees right through him. She has figured him out. He can’t control her. So his next step will be to sow division so that his wife won’t have contact with her sister. He will systematically try to destroy her emotional relationships with those who support her. So that in the end his is the only voice she hears as he tells her she is worthless, stupid, ugly, no one else wants her, a bad mother, responsible for the kids’ pyschological problems, etc.

I think you hit the nail on the head right here. It has always been obvious that he doesn’t think much of me or my mom by the way he talks to us. He has always been very condenscending to us. We both had him figured out long before she ever married him. But because of the way my sister is, we knew it was pointless to try and warn her. She never, ever listens to us about stuff like that. He pulled the wool over her eyes about who he really was until he had that ring on her finger. She’s told me herself that the change in him came about after the wedding, especially after the birth of their baby.

And I think he did actively try and seperate her from her family by insisting on buying a house far away from us. It takes us a half hour to get to her house and therefore we hardly ever see her. We knew when they bought the house why he was doing it, to isolate her. But ya couldn’t tell her that.

 

[JRKH]

If he is a control freak, it may already have escelated to abuse. By that I mean sexual abuse of your sister. My wife’s ex didn’t beat her, but he did rape her, believing it was the husband’s right. (Actually he has serious issues with his overbearing mother and therefore must dominate women.)

My Dear Wife stayed too long because she believed in the catholic “no divorce” dictum. (She was raised pre-vat) Also she was unable to talk to her mother about it. (Emotional issues there too.)

After she got her divorce, she applied and recieved an annullment on the grounds that he was too emotionally immature to make the marriage commitment. This was many years ago (early 70’s) when annullments were even harder to get than now. I have no doubt that once she decides to bail, she will be able to get an annulment without any trouble.

May I suggest that you help your sister prioritize.
1)She has herself and her children to care for.
2) If the Children are baptized in then she has to consider their spiritual health as well as their physical and emotionial health.
3) Can she really believe that they are better off watching their dad’s behavior day after day?
4) Is this the marriage image she wants them to grow up with?
5) Wouldn’t she and the children be better off with distance between her and him?
6) Couldn’t she be better able to help him by removing the temptations to abuse that her presence provides?

These are just some of the questions she needs to answer for herself.
Maybe you can get her to look at this thread. She can see how many people are rooting for her and hoping she can gather the courage it takes to do what’s best for the kids and her.

May God Bless and Guide you on this Journey.

James

 

[Liberanosamalo]

She’s told me herself that the change in him came about after the wedding, especially after the birth of their baby.

ABSOLUTELY! It’s part of the pattern. The problems start as soon as he is not the center of the world. Once he has what he wants, he no longer has to put on the show. (Though he can very easily bring out the charm act when he wants to impress outsiders. She better not ever show the world in front of him that she is not deliriously happy with him or make him look bad…)

When a woman gets pregnant and has a baby, she actually needs something from HIM. And that is not part of the plan. She needs HIS support. The baby takes her attention away from HIM. Then he becomes angry. His mommy has abandoned him, and he throws a two-year-old tantrum, banging his hand on the table and throwing things. Because emotionally, they are at the level of a two-year old. I promise you his relationship with his mother is totally screwed up too.

Mine got angry with me when our newborn was cooing and I was looking at her while talking to him. He was furious I wasn’t looking at HIM.

Eventually the abuser will use the children as a weapon against the wife. He will shower affection on them in front of her to show her what she doesn’t deserve. Then he will move on to affairs and letting her know that other women are more attractive and she is no longer worthy of him. That is a real soul crusher. But when it happens, it can also be her out and a reason to file divorce if she can document it.

Yes, mine moved me far away from my family also. Several states away.

Wait till she has to sneak down into the basement to have a phone conversation with you because she is afraid to be caught talking to you on the telephone. She probably doesn’t have any friends either. Because he has driven them off by his rudeness. Or told her she “doesn’t have anything in common with them.” And he doesn’t like them. She will throw everything overboard that he doesn’t like until she has nothing left. And she will still be accused of rocking the boat.

She needs your love, your patience and your prayers. I was terrified of leaving my xh because he told me if I tried to take his kids away, that he would kill me. And I felt if I left, he would blame my mother and sisters and they would be in danger also. Because he was a certifiable nutbunny.

What your sister needs is for you and your mother to make an effort to see her. Meet at McDonalds. Do everything you can to give the kids some normal afternoons. (But do as I did… wash off grandma’s perfume and change their clothes so he doesn’t know you spent the afternoon with your mother so you don’t pay for it for the rest of the night.)

Hug her. Call her by her name. (I went for whole weeks with no one calling me by my name. I didn’t see many other adults. My family didn’t call because they didn’t want to start trouble. So I was either “mommy” or something unprintable.) There is something soul-wrenching about having to be reminded that you have a name.

Go down memory lane. Remind her of a time and place when she was a strong person with dreams and hopes of her own. Kindle that little flame deep down inside her. He’s trying to put it out.

And seriously… have a code word that she can text you or something. And if she calls or texts that word, have a plan. To meet her somewhere (the women’s room at a local store, or any predetermined location.) And that you will be there to pick her and the kids up and take them somewhere safe and you have $$ set aside for her and copies of important documents in case she needs to get away from him in an emergency. Just that knowlege that there is an escape plan may help her more than you know.

It may take several months or several years to get to the point where she honestly fears for her life. But he’s showing every sign of heading in that direction.

 

[masondoggy]

After she got her divorce, she applied and recieved an annullment on the grounds that he was too emotionally immature to make the marriage commitment. This was many years ago (early 70’s) when annullments were even harder to get than now. I have no doubt that once she decides to bail, she will be able to get an annulment without any trouble.

I agree. I knew at the time of the wedding that “something” wasn’t right. I think that’s another reason why I feel the need to document everything I hear from her, to help in the annullment process if it ever comes to that.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

MasonDoggy, you are a wonderful sister! I was able to receive an annulment from my disaster. My mother and one of my sisters gave testimony in that. Now is the time for you to write down any memories of what made you believe things were “not quite right” at the time before and during the wedding.

 

[masondoggy]

MasonDoggy, you are a wonderful sister! I was able to receive an annulment from my disaster. My mother and one of my sisters gave testimony in that. Now is the time for you to write down any memories of what made you believe things were “not quite right” at the time before and during the wedding.

That’s what I plan to do.

 

[dulcissima]

Masondaoggy, I went to a class on annulments and the monsignor who is on the tribunal said that the head of the Roman Rota is adamant about abuse, both physical and emotional, that “no one should ever have to live in hell, just to go to hell.” There is no reason at all why a good Catholic should feel that it is better to live in an abusive marriage. Has she talked to her priest at all about this?

And what a previous poster mentioned about sexual abuse is very true. I know from my own experience and talking to other women who have been in abusive marriages that sexual abuse is a big part of the equation. I think if you can get her talking about this, if she really opens up and is honest, she will realize just how bad it really is.

 

[MCGar]

One of your posts says that they live 1/2 an hour away from you and so your family spends less time with her.

I have no doubt even though she talks to you and her family on the phone that she feels isolated and less self-confident about being *able *to get herself out of that situation.

I think your family and family friends should have visiting her as priority number one. Have a schedule of someone visiting her to where she has someone over atleast 3 times a week or something. Obviously not to get in her way but to help her cook, clean, etc… but to also just be there. They can even call him up and act as if they are visiting him. Ask him if they can bring over his favorite pie that they just found a recipe for. Or males from your side of the family can drop by to show him their latest, video game player, snowblower, anything that might be of male interest.

It sends two very clear messages. One, to her: “We are here for you, if you need an out and someone to rely on there are plenty of shoulders to cry on and places that will accept you with open arms.” Also, there will be a big contrast when having NORMAL people over as opposed to the ABNORMAL husband. She might see more clearly how his ABNORMAL behavior is unacceptable and others find him wrong also. It’s so easy to get sucked into adapting the abnormal behavior and to burrow down into survival mode, but when around people that aren’t afraid of him and just act plain normal, it just might awaken her.

The second message is to him: “We are here, we love her and you have other people to contend with, not just her.”

I don’t know if his abuse has escelated to the point where he would beat her if she has visitors, so take this advice within the context of his behavior.

If he hasn’t escaleted that far, then this plan might help her out.

 

[MCGar]

Also, if your mother visits more often, then she might come to realize, “Hey, this is wrong. I need to help her out of this.”

 

[DJgang]

If this were my sister, this is what I would do… that is, in addition to what you are already doing.

I would devise her an escape plan. I would find a friend of the family that she and the kids could go to in an instant that she may feel her life is in danger. She will need a couple of changes of clothes there and money. It needs to be somewhere that he wouldn’t look for her. If he were to come to your house, you could honestly say, “she is not here”

What happens is that she doesn’t have a plan. And when moments get to where she feels like she wants to leave, and she doesn’t have a plan, she forgets leaving.

Maybe by devising her a plan for an emergency, my life is in danger, get away, will help her get the confidence to start making additional plans of possibly leaving him.

Remember…this abuse has been building up. It’s not like for years he’s been a perfect husband and all of a sudden started abusing her, it’s been gradual, that’s the reason she’s able to downplay it all, because some of the things really are not a big deal.

If she could record any conversations, she may listen to them again, when he’s gone, and she might realize more about her situation if she re-lives it at a later time…when she’s not so scared of him. Then, she might be able to think things more throughly, even seeing how controling he really is.

Oh, and I don’t know how far you live from each other, but … maybe you and her could make up a code word should she decide to leave and go to the emergency plan…also a code word if she wants you to call the police for her…also a code word if she wants you and your husband to come over…

I will pray for her family.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Great idea bringing the whole family!!! I remember when I was around my newly-wed brother and sister… each married the same year… it was like a bucket of cold water in my face to see people relate to each other on a normal level. I remember my sister saying something and I said, “Won’t he be angry at you for doing that?” She LAUGHED at me! She said “No way! I do what I want. He doesn’t own me.” It was an insignificant thing. But it made me see just how much I was walking on eggshells and trembling over things other wives didn’t even take seriously. Because they were married to NORMAL men who don’t try to control their thoughts and actions.

 

[masondoggy]

My mom just left and I am so frustrated with her. She is in denial and she refuses to believe that we need to tell her to get out of this. She feels “it’s not her place”. And then she keeps going on and on about how hard it will be for her on her own and blah, blah, blah.

I’m really starting to lose my patience with my mom. She told me she was going to try to get ds aside and have a talk with her about this. I told her not to bother because the last thing ds needs right now is somebody DOWNPLAYING this situation and reminding her of all the bad things that “could” happen when she’s on her own.

We were very close too both of us losing our temper when she left.

I just do not know how to get through to her.

 

[MCGar]

I don’t know what your mother is like. It sounds like she is truly worried for your sister but it’s worry couched in fear of the unknown.

It sounds like she might not digest what you are telling her because you’re her daughter and she’s filtering your words through mom ears. The best way to get around that is to contact women abuse agencies and your priest. Get all the information you can from them. Statistics and the church’s position, etc. and set up a time where one of *them *can talk to your mother. She might not take her daughter’s caution seriously but more than likely she will sit up and listen to someone more knowledgable about these matters.

Plus, I wouldn’t worry about her being upset that you brought someone else in on this. You can do your best to keep this anonymous as to who you are speaking of. In the end it’s your determination to help your sister that counts.

If anything, please follow the other poster’s about having an escape plan drawn out.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Has your mother made a career of downplaying your sister’s abilities and making her feel inept and incapable of taking care of herself all her life? In such case, no wonder your sister married a man who tells her she is incapable and inept and cannot take care of herself. Did your mother put up with abuse and this is being taken as an indirect condemnation of her decisions not to leave an abusive situation? I share your puzzlement at your mother’s attitude.

But it really doesn’t matter. YOU need to tell your sister that “Mom might have it a bit wrong here and isn’t seeing things the way you are.”

Cuz if things go down badly, Mom will be the one crying the most loudly over your sister’s hospital bed.

Is your mom secretly afraid she will become financially responsible for your sister and the kids?

You need to start discussing your sister’s resume with her. You need to help her see that she can find a job out there. Many of us have managed to do that.

Don’t waste your time arguing with your mom on this one. You need to provide a united front. I would bet money that within the next year you get a call from your mother saying “You were right about your sister.”

 

[masondoggy]

Has your mother made a career of downplaying your sister’s abilities and making her feel inept and incapable of taking care of herself all her life? In such case, no wonder your sister married a man who tells her she is incapable and inept and cannot take care of herself. Did your mother put up with abuse and this is being taken as an indirect condemnation of her decisions not to leave an abusive situation? I share your puzzlement at your mother’s attitude.

But it really doesn’t matter. YOU need to tell your sister that “Mom might have it a bit wrong here and isn’t seeing things the way you are.”

Cuz if things go down badly, Mom will be the one crying the most loudly over your sister’s hospital bed.

Is your mom secretly afraid she will become financially responsible for your sister and the kids?

You need to start discussing your sister’s resume with her. You need to help her see that she can find a job out there. Many of us have managed to do that.

Don’t waste your time arguing with your mom on this one. You need to provide a united front. I would bet money that within the next year you get a call from your mother saying “You were right about your sister.”

No, my mom didn’t raise us this way. We were never made to feel we couldn’t do something.

I think my mom is looking at the way ds lived before she got married. She was on the edge all the time, mainly because she was financially irresponsible and wasted time instead of getting through college in a timely manner. She thinks if she goes out on her own she’ll end up in the same lifestyle. She’s forgetting the fact that ds has a college degree now, she’s been teaching for probably 6 or 7 years now. She can support herself. She may have to lower her standard of living a bit, but it’s not like she doesn’t have any skills.

Mom isn’t listening. I think she also has a little fear that she and my dad aren’t in any position to help her financially right now. They couldn’t really even offer her a place to live because they just don’t have the space. And they are maxed out in debt because they just remodeled their house. So she knows if do-do hits the fan, there’s not much she’s going to be able to do to bail her out.

 

[JRKH]

There are a couple of things related to your mom’s inability to cope.
First: It may be generational. Older generations dealt with things diferently. A bad marriage may be better than the alternatives.
Second: If may relate to her own marriage views.
In the case of my wife, her father was a loud and opinionated person. A good man and a loving husband and father but a real Character. (Think of Henry Fonda in “On Golden Pond”)
It so happens that each of the girls first husbands were overbearing. Don’t know it there was a corrolation but find the fact interesting.

James

 

[MCGar]

No, my mom didn’t raise us this way. We were never made to feel we couldn’t do something.

I think my mom is looking at the way ds lived before she got married. She was on the edge all the time, mainly because she was financially irresponsible and wasted time instead of getting through college in a timely manner. She thinks if she goes out on her own she’ll end up in the same lifestyle. She’s forgetting the fact that ds has a college degree now, she’s been teaching for probably 6 or 7 years now. She can support herself. She may have to lower her standard of living a bit, but it’s not like she doesn’t have any skills.

Mom isn’t listening. I think she also has a little fear that she and my dad aren’t in any position to help her financially right now. They couldn’t really even offer her a place to live because they just don’t have the space. And they are maxed out in debt because they just remodeled their house. So she knows if do-do hits the fan, there’s not much she’s going to be able to do to bail her out.

In light of this information, I believe the next time you two talk about your sister there would be nothing lost in voicing these suspicions. Don’t do it in an accusatory fashion, but do point it out and the reasons she should set those fears aside for her daughter.

Your mom may fear all of these things, but she might not even know that this is why she is feeling the way she does. It’s better all the way around for your mother to be confronted aloud.

Also, it wouldn’t be remiss to find a counselor in the local area of your sister that might do phone sessions.

 

[Norseman82]

+1 regarding the isolation issue and devising an escape plan.

I’ve heard on this thread and another here regarding taping the abuse. My only concern would be whether or not it is legally admissable in court.

Some other things I might want to add:

1. If it came to a physical confrontation, would she be able to defend herself? Does she have a brother or other male family member who would be able to physically defend her if it came to that?
2. Since alcohol is in the picture, can she get to an Al-Anon meeting (even during lunch break)? They may provide resources regarding how to document and provide an escape plan or arrange an intervention. Another resource would be if where she works has an employee assistance program (EAP).
3. I don’t know if it was mentioned, but how old are the children? If they are teenagers, they may be able to attend Alateen. Also, maybe this can be brought to the attention of their school counselor.
4. But right now, it appears that the woman is paralyzed by fear, and it will be up to people like you and any concerned neighbors or family to monitor the situation. DOCUMENT WHAT YOU WITNESS AS WELL; this will be helpful whenever there is any intervention or court action, because what you witness PERSONALLY cannot be dismissed as mere hearsay.
5. If anyone tries to brainwash her that it is her Christian duty to endure the abuse, tell them to shut their pieholes.