Does İslam really promote violence?

[hasantas]

Does Islam really promote violence? What would give you that idea?

Some say Muhammed had wars so he couldn’t be a true prophet. And some conflicts and violences which appears in İslam countries. Some claim that all that violence occur because of Islam.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

İslam and Quran are straightness in every way. But when some can not find any argument against İslam then he attacks as if İslam impose violence. İn this way he suppose he refute İslam. I am very nervous because that issue is misused very badly. I think that problem must be discussed with all sides in a fairness way. İt can start from any point. Any question and assertion?

At the risk of causing friction, I’ll give my opinion. Obviously it is mine only, and it would no doubt raise the ire of Moslem fundamentalists, and quite possibly some other readers. *Hasantas *might find it a bit blunt too, but I’m afraid if he wants an honest opinion, he’s going to have to hear some stuff he may not like.

In the first instance, I think Islam was raised to destroy the church. That may not have been Mohammed’s intention, who seemed more intent on establishing an Arab identity and getting rid of Arab polytheism at the time. But that is what happened. In the sixth century the Catholic Church, there were over 400 bishoprics in North Africa. By the 14th Century there were four.

From Wikipedia -

A letter in Catholic Church archives from the 14th century shows that there were still four bishoprics left in North Africa, admittedly a sharp decline from the over four hundred bishoprics in existence at the time of the Arab conquest.

What Moslems don’t seem to realise is that they were invading parts of Europe for 400 years before the First Crusade took place. Eventually the Europeans got sick of if and they hit back - hard.

But the Moslems came pretty close to destroying the Catholic Church and in the fifteenth century overran the home of the Byzantine Church (aka Orthodox) at Constantinople, now Istanbul. Since then the Russians have regarded themselves as the centre of the Orthodox Church.

For quite some time the Ottoman Empire figured largely in European thought. But as that empire dwindled in influence, and became the “poor man” of Europe, the fear dwindled.

Then the Western Europeans were on the ascendancy, and colonial Europe was in the ascendancy. This of course included domination of much of the Middle East, home of Islam.

One of the famous figures of World War I was Lawrence of Arabia (TE Lawrence). After the war, he pleaded with the political establishment, the colonial powers and the oil companies to recognise Arab independence. But they persisted in their arrogance, and decreed the Arabs were going to get nothing. Lawrence eventually gave up and was killed in a motor cycle accident.

Had the powers that be recognised his pleas, and granted the Arabs the independence they longed for, a lot of the problems that plague the Middle East and the wider world today would not have happened.

Strike One.

Then there was the re-establishment of Israel, hard on the heels of a European based holocaust. Once again the local Arab population was ignored, and the Jews given protection, mostly by the USA. Strike Two for Arab aka Moslem resentment.

Strike Two.

There was the American backed overthrow of an Iraqi socialist, who was then replaced by Saddam Hussein, the US golden boy during the Iran-Iraq war. Photographs exist of he and Rumsfeld shaking hands at one time. This was after the overthrow of the Shah of Iran and the peacock throne by Iranian radicals, who then ushered in the rule of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

Strike three.

We remember Yassir Arafat and the airline hijackings of the PLO way back in the 1970’s. But this was a far cry from the ISIS mindset.

Then the Russians invaded Afghanistan.

Strike four.

Then Saddam invaded Kuwait, and the US was suddenly drawn into the Middle Eastern quagmire in a way that it had never been before. Gulf War I.

Strike five.

Since then we know all about the 9/11 attacks in New York, the second Gulf War, Western armies in Afghanistan, the nuclear standoff between Hindu India and Moslem Pakistan, near civil war in Iraq, the enormous wealth of the Saudis, the war in Syria, the fall of Gaddafi’s Libya, the so-called “Arab Spring” and all the rest.

At the same time, the church hasn’t had much success in evangelising Moslems.

Now if the Christian God is all powerful as He professes, then I would have to query why He’s been so spectacularly unsuccessful in Moslem conversion to Christ. In 1400 years He’s hardly made a dint.

Which leads me to think He’s left them there for a reason.

First of all we need to realise that we in the West are just as ruthless towards our own unborn children as ISIS are towards those they perceive to be their enemies. In our abortion clinics we routinely murder these innocents, and we’re as just as guilty of mass murder as ISIS. But we cover it up.

So I think there’s an element of judgment involved. I think God’s bringing one almighty judgment against us, and I think the spiralling violence in Iraq, Syria, Gaza and Afghanistan is a wind that will become a whirlwind.

Secondly, whether we like the Moslem mindset or not, they take God seriously (Allah as they call Him). The West doesn’t. So I think God is going to use them to challenge a complacent, largely atheist West.

Just where all this is going to lead I don’t know. What is certain is that if Moslem fundamentalists do something drastic, the West will respond. And they’ll probably retaliate first with Moslems in their own countries.

I suppose that if I were to sum up my thoughts on Islam, I think that in the first case, in the spiritual war that’s going on, it was initially a nearly successful attempt to destroy the Church. But now that’s over, and I think God is going to use it as part of a judgement against a West which has largely turned against Him.

God’s not soft, and He won’t be ignored. One way or the other, He’ll bang our heads together until He gets that recognised.

 

[Kaninchen]

The thread was supposed to be about Islam and violence rather than whether Islam is the fulfilment of Jewish or Christian scriptures.

 

[hasantas]

Right now we have a situation where 1) there are several very violent groups that are operating in their parts of the world, and claiming authority from the Qur’an to do so, and 2) these groups are not being opposed in any meaningful way by any significant Muslim leaders. As long as these two conditions continue, there will be people who claim that all of Islam is violent, and it will be hard to convince them otherwise.

That groups interpret Quran in a wrong way. Contrary to that groups as a most of Moslems which are more authoritative do not affirm them. Actually we must investigate the reasons that cause to occur that kinds of groups. We will see more reasons are not religious but some political, social, economical and other reasons. I think that propblems must be solved as politically.

 

[GaryTaylor]

In the first instance, I think Islam was raised to destroy the church. That may not have been Mohammed’s intention, who seemed more intent on establishing an Arab identity .

I think so also, and I think dwelling and speaking with the Jews and Christians Mohammed became touched by the holy spirit. But, the law of God doesn’t make exceptions for Mohammeds robbery and tyranny and murder. He’s a perfect example of excusing what we call evil.

 

[Kaninchen]

That groups interpret Quran in a wrong way. Contrary to that groups as a most of Moslems which are more authoritative do not affirm them. Actually we must investigate the reasons that cause to occur that kinds of groups. We will see more reasons are not religious but some political, social, economical and other reasons. I think that propblems must be solved as politically.

Unfortunately, the idea that there are political/social/economic reasons behind the behaviour of others can be disabling - as European countries found with the Germans before 1939. There were political/social/economic reasons that created the situation where the NSDAP (the Nazi Party) could prosper and come to power but the NSDAP was more than a response to those problems, it was a hugely violent organization with the ultimate aim of creating a thousand-year world empire.

There were no ‘political’ answers to this - you gave up or you fought back.

I think that this is a question that is faced by the Muslim world first and foremost and everybody else in turn. It may or may not be the case that the situation has arisen for political/social/economic reasons but have these various violent radical organizations that are terrorizing so much of the Islamic world moved beyond a situation where they’ll disappear if the political/social/economic situation improves?

 

[DaveBj]

The Grand Mufti of Egypt, representing the Sunni establishment, has indeed spoken out. Why couldn’t you have done a simple Google search and discovered this for yourself?

snip

Groovy. And what is he doing to put boots on his condemnation?

crickets

snip

1. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.( Quran: al-Baqarah:256)

As Allah mention in Quran İslam does not force others to be İslam. İslam convey and notify faith but never force anyone to believe in İslam. Muhammed (pbuh) make many treaty instead war if it was possible.

Nevertheless, there are Muslims who force others to convert, at least outwardly. And what happens to Muslims to voluntarily become Christians? Is not dragging them to court and charging them with blasphemy a form of compulsion?

Did Gabriel come to Muhammed ony once in a cave? That was the first time and Gabriel had went on coming untill depart of Muhammed. For the first time seeing an angel is a bit frightening as Mary got fear and it was told to not fear. The same thing is valid for Muhammed. After that Muhammed and Gabriel were friend and they were used to read Quran each other. Gabriel showed and tought Muhammed about worships of Islam. Look at Quran then decide if Quran is word of God or a devil.

I have the equivalent of a college degree in Arabic. I have “looked at” the Qur’an more than once, and I have studied Islam. I absolutely believe that the Qur’an is not the word of God. As for what it really is, you may draw your own conclusions, based on the actions of the people who claim that the Qur’an IS the word of God.

At the risk of causing friction. . . snip

Good analysis.

That groups interpret Quran in a wrong way. Contrary to that groups as a most of Moslems which are more authoritative do not affirm them. Actually we must investigate the reasons that cause to occur that kinds of groups. We will see more reasons are not religious but some political, social, economical and other reasons. I think that propblems must be solved as politically.

They “do not affirm them.” Great, but it means nothing to “not affirm them,” while allowing them to continue to shed innocent blood? I would suggest that if ISIS are acting contrary to the Qur’an in killing the innocents and forcing others to convert, then they are, in fact, infidels who are pretending to be Muslims. What are true Muslims DOING to bring to an end the actions of these kuffar? If they do nothing to stop these actions, then they will be identified with those who are carrying out these actions.

 

[Contarini]

Groovy. And what is he doing to put boots on his condemnation?

That’s silly. It’s like asking what the Pope (or perhaps more precisely,the dean of one of the Pontifical Institutes, since Sunnis don’t have a “Pope”) can do to put boots on his condemnation of some fundamentalist Protestant group.

These guys don’t recognize the authority of the traditional “ulama.” They believe, as fundamentalists of all religions tend to believe, that they can interpret the Qur’an for themselves. What exactly do you want the Grand Mufti to do?

Edwin

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

hasantas;12255601]İslam and Quran are straightness in every way.

That is debatable. Islam justifies lie-ing (deception) as a good virtue for Muslims to practice from the Quran. When God revealed “Thou shall not bear false witness” for one of many examples.

But when some can not find any argument against İslam then he attacks as if İslam impose violence. İn this way he suppose he refute İslam.

There does not exist one interpretation of the Quran for all Muslims to follow and no one authority for all Muslims to interpret their Quran.

Hence, a moderate Muslim’s interpretation of the Quran as a religion of peace, contradicts with another Muslim’s interpretation of the Quran to promote Islam’s and Muhammad’s battle cry, “kill the infidels”. Which practice of Islam and which interpretation of the Quran by these two Muslims is the true and correct one?

To date the Quran interpretation of a Muslim to “kill the Infidels” appears to be the global and dominant interpretation over the Muslim who interprets the Quran as being an Islamic religion of peace.

It is not for another group or people to make the correct interpretation of the Quran. This task is for all Muslims who believe Islam to be a religion of peace to hold those Muslims accountable who interpret the Quran as being a religion of blood shed and war to “kill the infidels” who promote Islam under the black flag of Islam’s punishment and justice of the Quran’s diety.

I am very nervous because that issue is misused very badly. I think that problem must be discussed with all sides in a fairness way. İt can start from any point. Any question and assertion?

Your (name removed by moderator)ut here is to be commended, when a door to communicate diverse views on such a difficult subject.

One difficulty within Islam, is that it encompasses diverse cultures, peoples and languages, while Islam promotes to unite all Muslim’s under one governing authority which it never has one to begin with.

Islam mixes it’s faith of religion with secular government powers which is a no-no in the revelations of God in the eternal Kingdom of God. God’s Kingdom is not of this world. God’s Kingdom is eternal, when Islam promotes it’s faith to be one to rule the earth and all diverse peoples and cultures. Muslims kill each other over their diverse cultural practices ad interpretations of the Quran.

Thus Islam today, under it’s own history and practices proves itself to always be in conflict in the world which seeks peace, but has no proven solution for peace, except by it’s own history of violence among Muslims themselves.

Raising the black flag of Islam in order to unite all Muslims worldwide reveals a proven record in the name of Islam has never reached a status of peace withou blood shed and violence among Muslims themselves.

In summary, God has revealed His presence through diverse languages and cultures. God is never limited to one language of Aramaic and to only one culture.

Peace be with you

 

[Petaro]

That groups interpret Quran in a wrong way. Contrary to that groups as a most of Moslems which are more authoritative do not affirm them. Actually we must investigate the reasons that cause to occur that kinds of groups. We will see more reasons are not religious but some political, social, economical and other reasons. I think that propblems must be solved as politically.

I agree, we should not let violent aggression, rape, slavery, crucifixions, and mass murder hide behind any religious claims. Thus the problem of Northern Iraq is a political one and must be resolved by military intervention, destruction of the Islamist and restoration of peace to the region and safety for the religious minorities. It would be a welcome change if any Muslim leader spoke out at these atrocities. But I am not holding my breath.

 

[eddie_too]

islam, like all man made organizations, contains division within its very nature. that, among others, is a good reason to believe that islam does not come from almighty God.

some might say that Christianity suffers from the same defect. and in one sense, that would be correct, but in a deeper sense such an assertion would be ignoring the facts.

the Gospel of Jesus Christ was entrusted to the apostles. while it is possible that successors to the apostles can disagree, it is definite that within the Christian tradition there exists a mechanism to ensure that most of the successors to the apostles remain true to the Lord’s Gospel. that mechanism is the Chair of Peter.

through the Chair of Peter, RC are assured that what they are taught remains faithful to the teachings of Jesus. to be a faithful RC, a person must adhere to the infallible teachings of the RCC. among all of the organizations and institutions that have ever existed, only the papacy is designed to provide perpetual unity among the followers of Jesus.

there is no such mechanism in islam. islam is similar, in this respect, to Christian Protestantism where in whoever makes the best argument is designated the leader. this technique of establishing truth descends in both islam and Christian Protestantism to even the local level. although their are protestant groups that have central governing bodies (I do not know if this is true in islam), there are just as many protestant groups that gravitate around a charismatic leader and accept the charismatic leader’s teachings as the truth. in any case, only in the RCC does there exist a means of ensuring for the entire community access to the Gospel of Jesus.

the Chair of Peter is such a profound difference from all other institutions in the world, that its existence alone should be found persuasive to anyone who is sincerely seeking the truth.

 

[Thomas48]

I live in the most multi-cultural county in the United States, which includes many Muslims. A large majority of my friends are Muslims, what you see and hear on the television is not the definition of a true Mulsim. Islam is just as peaceful as Catholicism but many Islamistic groups out their have misinterpreted the Quran and used it for justification for their crimes against humanity just as many Christians misinterpret the Bible to justify their actions.

My Muslims friends always explain to me that everything that happens in the Middle East pertaining to the radical Islamist groups continue to shame Islam with their actions. When we had this conversion they especially pushed that the groups who kill Nasrai (Christians) and decimate there churches are among the most foolish because true Muslims see Isa (Jesus) as there Al-Masih (Messiah) who will rescue them on the last day as well. Real Muslims show Christ respect to the same levels as Christians, the only difference being He is not seen as God but only a prophet and redeemer.

 

[Adamski]

Please watch this video is it only 30 seconds

Check out this video on YouTube:

youtu.be/NDS81Ibazdk

 

[hasantas]

]islam, like all man made organizations, contains division within its very nature. that, among others, is a good reason to believe that islam does not come from almighty God.

Islam is a religion from Allah. Every law of Islam have been taught to Muhammed by revelation, Quran or Gabriel. A man made organization can not make an affect like Islam. Sunni Islam have 4 valid sects and no one deny other. Shii Islam is same as Sunni Islam but there are some political issues between each others. Shii or Sunni there are thousands different interpretions of Quran because Quran is word of Allah and words of Allah are so expansive.

some might say that Christianity suffers from the same defect. and in one sense, that would be correct, but in a deeper sense such an assertion would be ignoring the facts.

Is Christianity Holy and Islam not? So propblems in Christianity are holy and acceptable but ın Islam not! Islam protects right faith which is Tavhid.

the Gospel of Jesus Christ was entrusted to the apostles. while it is possible that successors to the apostles can disagree, it is definite that within the Christian tradition there exists a mechanism to ensure that most of the successors to the apostles remain true to the Lord’s Gospel. that mechanism is the Chair of Peter.

You can believe Gospel entrusted by apostles but Quran can not entrust by hands of prophet of Allah?

through the Chair of Peter, RC are assured that what they are taught remains faithful to the teachings of Jesus. to be a faithful RC, a person must adhere to the infallible teachings of the RCC. among all of the organizations and institutions that have ever existed, only the papacy is designed to provide perpetual unity among the followers of Jesus.

How much you explain there will be allways suspicion on Gospels because after apostles Gospels were translated and interpreted many times by pastors and Christian scholars.

there is no such mechanism in islam. islam is similar, in this respect, to Christian Protestantism where in whoever makes the best argument is designated the leader. this technique of establishing truth descends in both islam and Christian Protestantism to even the local level. although their are protestant groups that have central governing bodies (I do not know if this is true in islam), there are just as many protestant groups that gravitate around a charismatic leader and accept the charismatic leader’s teachings as the truth. in any case, only in the RCC does there exist a means of ensuring for the entire community access to the Gospel of Jesus.

I do not know much about protestant but there are many valid İmams and their thoughts which are been accepted by most of Muslims. That make an unity and most of Muslims go on that way.

t

 

[Moro_Rock]

I agree, we should not let violent aggression, rape, slavery, crucifixions, and mass murder hide behind any religious claims. Thus the problem of Northern Iraq is a political one and must be resolved by military intervention, destruction of the Islamist and restoration of peace to the region and safety for the religious minorities. It would be a welcome change if any Muslim leader spoke out at these atrocities. But I am not holding my breath.

It sounds a bit like the stern father correcting his son . He says to him " Do what I say , Not what I do "

In Muslim majority countries there are loudspeakers attached to the outside of mosques , and the talk being given is also broadcast to people living round and about. As a westerner you can understand words like Israel , Netanyahu , Jerusalem, Palestinian etc. as part of the “sermon”. You can also ‘understand’’ a voice which
is full of anger and rage and inciting people to react ! When , shortly afterwards ,
there is a bomb attack on Western hotels , not too far away , with multiple
casualties , you might be forgiven for thinking that the bomb attacks on the
hotels are linked to the " sermons" going on in the local mosques .
Wheras this would never happen in a Christian church anywhere in the world .
One has to assume that people are being incited to violence in the mosques
during their Friday religious services !

 

[clintonm]

A common misunderstanding is that Islam is not just a religion. Islam is a political system and a legal system fully encompassing all of human behaviour. So trying to isolate a political agenda in a Muslim country from Islam is near impossible because they are one in the same.

 

[DaveBj]

A common misunderstanding is that Islam is not just a religion. Islam is a political system and a legal system fully encompassing all of human behaviour. So trying to isolate a political agenda in a Muslim country from Islam is near impossible because they are one in the same.

Pay attention, y’all; ^^^ is the truth.

 

[otterman]

To find out how Islam should be put into practice, you have to look to the actions of its role model for mankind i.e. Mohammed, which in turn allows you to live in accordance with Allahs will, in much the same way as any Christian, who looks to Jesus as his role model.

The ways and example of Mohammed proves he was a military leader, who led his followers into battles, “to proclaim Islam over all religion” as the Quran commands in 9.33. Mohammed used military strength to bring people to the Islamic faith, as the authentic ahadiths report,

Bukhari:

Volumn 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 065.​

Narated By Abu Musa : A man came to the Prophet and asked, “A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah’s Cause?” The Prophet said, “He who fights that Allah’s Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah’s Cause.”
Volumn 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 196.​

Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has
the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and
property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to
forgive him.)"

Sahih Muslim 33—The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Tabari 9: 82
The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.”

Quran 9.29
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Does Islam promote violence?”

According to Islamic sources the answer is, yes it does.

 

[virgo]

Ya know, I posed this exact question a couple of weeks ago, and the resulting thread was closed by the admins lickety-split. What gives?

 

[332]

**One, it would seem Moslems believe Moses, Elijah, and the other prophets to be Arab. **

This, of course, is nonsense. Yes it is and I have no idea where you got that idea from

Of course, I do wonder, do Moslems believe the Jewish people were Arab? It does seem crazy to me

yes it is crazy a nd again where did you hear this nonsense?

**
For another, that the revelation of Mohammed supersedes that of the Jewish and Christian claims - ie, the Tanakh, and the New Testament. The problem with this is: the Koran did not even exist until 500 years after Christ had lived, died, and rose again. Christianity was already 500 years old by the time Mohammed had his vision.**

That is exactly the same argument the Jews use against Christianity. I was here first.

Where are the Arab prophets? I see only one: Mohammed
correct there is only one

For a third, someone brought up an interesting point about the angel who visited Mohammed. That was Gabriel, no? Now, when an angel or messenger of God comes, God strikes an awe into him. But not fear or terror. On the contrary, when Gabriel visited Mary, he said, “Fear not”, according to the contemporary author Luke.

As I understand it, however, Mohammed was terrified of whatever visited him in that cave - with no comfort. I doubt it was Gabriel who visited Mohammed due to the very contrast in nature between what visited Mohammed and what visited Mary.

And the Lord said to Gabriel: “'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy the children of fornication and the children of the Watchers from amongst men and cause them to go forth: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have.”
1 Enoch 10:9

For these reasons especially - in short, because Islam is not historically consistent - Islam is not true, as far as I can tell.

You have much to learn then