Does 1 corinthian 10 prove apostolic succession incorrect?

[NathanR]

A protestant recently attacted a Catholic friend regarding apostolic succession by using 1 Corinthians 10: “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no division among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, I belong to Paul, or Apollos, or Kephas, or Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

His point is that the Catholic Church does not focus on Christ. We focus on all the other apostles. Please help me correct this sola scriptura conflict.

 

[davidv]

A protestant recently attacted a Catholic friend regarding apostolic succession by using 1 Corinthians 10: “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no division among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, I belong to Paul, or Apollos, or Kephas, or Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

His point is that the Catholic Church does not focus on Christ. We focus on all the other apostles. Please help me correct this sola scriptura conflict.

It isn’t a sola scriptura problem. The problem is an incorrect statement of the teaching of the Church.

 

[Mannyfit75]

A protestant recently attacted a Catholic friend regarding apostolic succession by using 1 Corinthians 10: “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no division among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, I belong to Paul, or Apollos, or Kephas, or Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

His point is that the Catholic Church does not focus on Christ. We focus on all the other apostles. Please help me correct this sola scriptura conflict.

The center of the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ.

Straight from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

CHRIST JESUS – "MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF ALL REVELATION"25

God has said everything in his Word

65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.27

There will be no further Revelation

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

IN BRIEF

68 By love, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. He has thus provided the definitive, superabundant answer to the questions that man asks himself about the meaning and purpose of his life.

69 God has revealed himself to man by gradually communicating his own mystery in deeds and in words.

70 Beyond the witness to himself that God gives in created things, he manifested himself to our first parents, spoke to them and, after the fall, promised them salvation (cf. Gen 3:15) and offered them his covenant.

71 God made an everlasting covenant with Noah and with all living beings (cf. Gen 9:16). It will remain in force as long as the world lasts.

72 God chose Abraham and made a covenant with him and his descendants. By the covenant God formed his people and revealed his law to them through Moses. Through the prophets, he prepared them to accept the salvation destined for all humanity.

73 God has revealed himself fully by sending his own Son, in whom he has established his covenant for ever. The Son is his Father’s definitive Word; so there will be no further Revelation after him.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD

The Good News: God has sent his Son

422 'But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.'1 This is ‘the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God’:'2 God has visited his people. He has fulfilled the promise he made to Abraham and his descendants. He acted far beyond all expectation - he has sent his own ‘beloved Son’.3

423 We believe and confess that Jesus of Nazareth, born a Jew of a daughter of Israel at Bethlehem at the time of King Herod the Great and the emperor Caesar Augustus, a carpenter by trade, who died crucified in Jerusalem under the procurator Pontius Pilate during the reign of the emperor Tiberius, is the eternal Son of God made man. He ‘came from God’,4 ‘descended from heaven’,5 and ‘came in the flesh’.6 For 'the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. . . And from his fullness have we all received, grace upon grace.'7

424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.'8 On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.9

"To preach. . . the unsearchable riches of Christ"10

425 The transmission of the Christian faith consists primarily in proclaiming Jesus Christ in order to lead others to faith in him. From the beginning, the first disciples burned with the desire to proclaim Christ: “We cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.”'11 It And they invite people of every era to enter into the joy of their communion with Christ:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life - the life was made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us- that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing this that our joy may be complete.12

At the heart of catechesis: Christ

426 "At the heart of catechesis we find, in essence, a Person, the Person of Jesus of Nazareth, the only Son from the Father. . .who suffered and died for us and who now, after rising, is living with us forever."13 To catechize is “to reveal in the Person of Christ the whole of God’s eternal design reaching fulfillment in that Person. It is to seek to understand the meaning of Christ’s actions and words and of the signs worked by him.”'14 Catechesis aims at putting "people . . . in communion . . . with Jesus Christ: only he can lead us to the love of the Father in the Spirit and make us share in the life of the Holy Trinity."15

427 In catechesis "Christ, the Incarnate Word and Son of God,. . . is taught - everything else is taught with reference to him - and it is Christ alone who teaches - anyone else teaches to the extent that he is Christ’s spokesman, enabling Christ to teach with his lips. . . Every catechist should be able to apply to himself the mysterious words of Jesus: ‘My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.’"16

428 Whoever is called “to teach Christ” must first seek “the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus”; he must suffer “the loss of all things. . .” in order to “gain Christ and be found in him”, and “to know him and the power of his resurrection, and [to] share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that if possible [he] may attain the resurrection from the dead”.17

429 From this loving knowledge of Christ springs the desire to proclaim him, to “evangelize”, and to lead others to the “yes” of faith in Jesus Christ. But at the same time the need to know this faith better makes itself felt. To this end, following the order of the Creed, Jesus’ principal titles - “Christ”, “Son of God”, and “Lord” (article 2) - will be presented. The Creed next confesses the chief mysteries of his life - those of his Incarnation (article 3), Paschal mystery (articles 4 and 5) and glorification (articles 6 and 7).

 

[Caesar]

A protestant recently attacted a Catholic friend regarding apostolic succession by using 1 Corinthians 10: “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no division among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, I belong to Paul, or Apollos, or Kephas, or Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

His point is that the Catholic Church does not focus on Christ. We focus on all the other apostles. Please help me correct this sola scriptura conflict.

What St. Paul seems to be arguing against is the rivalry among the early Christians who identified themselves as followers of a particular Apostle (most likely, the Apostle who converted them), which is incorrect since we are all united in Christ, no matter what Diocese we are in. It has nothing to do with Apostolic succession.

 

[Mannyfit75]

What St. Paul seems to be arguing against is the rivalry among the early Christians who identified themselves as followers of a particular Apostle (most likely, the Apostle who converted them), which is incorrect since we are all united in Christ, no matter what Diocese we are in. It has nothing to do with Apostolic succession.

Caesar is right. I think this writing of Paul also prove Protestantism incorrect because their are many Protestant Churches that have different doctrines.

The Catholic Church is founded by Jesus and left Peter to be his Prime Minister of His Church. Peter, and the Apostles, then pass their authority to the bishops upon their death, so that the Gospel would spread to the ends of the earth.

The Church gave us the Trinity, the Bible, protected Jesus against heresies from Gnosticism, Arianism, Nectorianism, etc.

The Catholic Church as a whole teach no doctrine that is different. The Catholic Bishops in union with the Pope, may differ in opinions, but when it comes to faith and morals, the teachings remain the same. Those who do not agree with the doctrines of the Church and is disobedient by allow single priest to marry in the Latin Rite are excommunicated.

 

[Mike_Brick]

A protestant recently attacted a Catholic friend regarding apostolic succession by using 1 Corinthians 10: “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no division among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, I belong to Paul, or Apollos, or Kephas, or Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

His point is that the Catholic Church does not focus on Christ. We focus on all the other apostles. Please help me correct this sola scriptura conflict.

(The actual scripture you referred to is I Corinthians 1: 10.) As the earlier poster said, this is not a sola scriptura problem. What was attempted to be used to disprove Apostolic Succession is useful for showing the validity of and need for such orderly succession. What St. Paul was describing and warning about was the human tendency for believers to follow particular preachers.

This is not a Catholic tendency, it is a human tendency, present also in our separated brethern in the protestant churches as well. The question is what happens when the “Preacher” is gone, whom will you follow? This was soon to be faced in the Church as the apostles began to die off. The message to all believers is to follow Jesus the Christ, not the person who led you to Him. With the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Church ensured there would be an orderly succession of valid teachers to lead believers to Jesus through the Church He established here on earth. Paul was urging the believers to be united, not divided like we are so totally today, with many many thousands of denominations all using the same Bible as our guide, but having very different beliefs.

So the answer to your OP is a straight forward NO, it doesn’t disprove Apostolic Succession at all, it demonstrates the need for believers to get past the delivery tool, and follow the Redeemer. And the challenge of your friend using this scripture proves the challenger does not understand Catholic teaching. It is obvious he has not tried to find out what we believe, but instead relied on someone outside the Church to be the subject matter expert for him.

Peace to All

 

[garysibio]

A protestant recently attacted a Catholic friend regarding apostolic succession by using 1 Corinthians 10: “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no division among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, I belong to Paul, or Apollos, or Kephas, or Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

His point is that the Catholic Church does not focus on Christ. We focus on all the other apostles. Please help me correct this sola scriptura conflict.

On the contrary, I would suggest that what St. Paul is condemning here is the tendency to create new denominations every time there’s a difference of opinion, a tendency inherent in Protestantism.

To defend apostolic succession, ask your friend why the other apostles replaced Judas in Acts 1. That would not have been necessary unless apostolic succession is a valid belief.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

A protestant recently attacted a Catholic friend regarding apostolic succession by using 1 Corinthians 10: “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no division among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, I belong to Paul, or Apollos, or Kephas, or Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

His point is that the Catholic Church does not focus on Christ. We focus on all the other apostles. Please help me correct this sola scriptura conflict.

Nathan:

I can assure you that the passage in question has nothing to do with Apostolic Succession, and everything to do with human nature and our tendency to place “special leaders” above Christ in some situations.

I think the brothers here have taken care of the doctrine here, but I think I can ad some personal experience.

I was recently involved in a situation that was what St. Paul was describing. Some members of the congregation had tried to correct a man of God who had fallen, and who was using the loyalty that a lot of members felt towards him to cause a civil war between his “loyalists” and those who were either trying to get him to repent (Yours truly and a few others) and those who had tried to get him to repent and had given up because of his intransigence (a few more).

All I can tell you is that it was aweful for a few weeks, esp. when the Curate and the Bishop would try to minimize everything and call it a “Tempest in a Teapot”, and the Rector would refuse to fulfil appointments for Daily Mass, Confession and Counselling, among other things.

I was shocked by how many people seemed to be more loyal towards “Greg” than towards God, and how many of those who had that skewed loyalty were showing almost zero Charity towards those on the other side of the debate and would not consider that the people they were effectively consigning to perdition were their brothers and sisters in Christ.

That’s at least part of what St. Paul was talking about when he wrote this:

1 Cor 1:10-13 NIV

*I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?*

And, then there is what garysibio spoke about - The way Prostestants follow dynamic personalities and speakers or create denominations sometimes for what seems to be almost no reason at all.

If the Catholic Church doesn’t concentrate on Jesus Christ, Who is the Center of the Mass? If the Catholic church doesn’t concentrate on Christ, Why do Catholics EAT and DRINK Jesus Christ at every Mass while the Protestant Communion Service is a Commemoration?

If the Protestant Service is so Bible focused, why does the Catholic Mass have so much Scripture than in any Protestant service? And, Why is the priest REQUIRED to make the Scripture of the day the subject of his Homily, while the Protestant pastor can pick and choose what he preaches on?

You Brother in Christ, Michael