Does a nuptial Mass ever "count"

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Dandelion_Wine

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Greetings all.

I had the privilege of standing up in the wedding of a longtime friend. As you may have guessed I was out quite late.

They had the gift opening early the next morning so I had to get up early to get to Mass before the opening.

As my alarm clock went off and I reached over to shut it off I got to thinking. Ok, it was more like feeling sorry for myself. I was whining in my mind that while all the people in the wedding party (with the possible exception of 1) and the married couple are catholic, I’d bet my mortgage that I was the only one going to Mass that morning.

Since the nuptial Mass was at 11 on Saturday, it was a moot point I believe.

BUT if the nuptial Mass is in the afternoon, I thought it still didn’t “count” as one’s sunday obligation but I couldn’t remember exactly why. Is it because the readings aren’t the same or some other reason?

Thanks.
 
For a Mass to fulfill the obligation, it has to be either on the day itself (Sunday) or on the evening of the preceding day. I believe ‘evening’ is interpreted as after 4:00 PM (in the U.S., at least). If the Mass was in the afternoon, then it did not fulfill the Sunday obligation.
 
I believe it has to be after 4 p.m. AND have the Sunday readings as well. In fact, I believe it can be celebrated at the regular Saturday evening vigil Mass. I can’t imagine wanting to do this if you’ve invited a huge crowd of people, especially if many of the guests are not practicing Catholics.

A friend of mine told me that her cousin was practically BEGGING the pastor to allow her 2 p.m. wedding to “count” as fulfilling the Sunday obligation (the reception was to be a humongous bash held at a nearby resort and casino which is probably what prompted the bride’s plea), but he said even if she were to agree to have the Sunday readings, 2 p.m. is too early to be considered a vigil.
 
Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.
Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and aVairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.
Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.
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One must assist at mass withing the prescribed times - 4pm Saturday to midnight Sunday. However, any mass qualifies - e.g. one may assist at an Eastern Rite which will have different readings.

However, I think any Roman Rite mass within the prescribed times that does not use the prescribed mass and readings is probably illicit, though still valid. For example, one may be married on a solemnity, such as the Feast of Saint Joseph, but it must be with the mass of Saint Joseph, not the nuptial mass.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
One must assist at mass withing the prescribed times - 4pm Saturday to midnight Sunday. However, any mass qualifies - e.g. one may assist at an Eastern Rite which will have different readings.

However, I think any Roman Rite mass within the prescribed times that does not use the prescribed mass and readings is probably illicit, though still valid. For example, one may be married on a solemnity, such as the Feast of Saint Joseph, but it must be with the mass of Saint Joseph, not the nuptial mass.
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There may be more specific guidelines out there as to when a certain days Mass becomes either mandatory or forbidden, but I know that our current practice regarding the Sunday obligation creates an exception to the rule. I think the anticipated Mass was originally justified by appealing to the fact that the new liturgical day starts after vespers, meaning that, strictly speaking Saturday evening *is *Sunday. The problem is that the period to fulfill the obligation extends all the way to the midnight ending Sunday proper, which means consistent application of the principle would place Sunday evening (at least Sunday night) Masses on liturgical Monday. This suggests to me that at least on the edges of Sunday there is some wiggle room as to which Mass may legitimately be said.
 
The focus of the Nuptual Mass is the sacramental marriage of the couple. Everything within the Mass is aimed towards that – prayers, readings, homily etc.

The Sunday obligation is an entirely different focus – prescribed prayers, readings and homily for that specific Sunday, and would only be included during the specific vigil times.

However, the priest presiding at the Nuptual Mass could grant dispensation for Sunday Mass attendance to the congregation present if asked. I have attended weddings where such was given, but very, very rarely.

And most who were in attendance at that wedding went to Sunday Mass anyway.
 
As per the relevant canon posted above, the readings have absolutely nothing to do with the Sunday obligation. Many folks seem to believe that in order for a Mass to satisfy the obligation, the readings must be of the Sunday. This is simply is not the case.
 
bluerose said:
I believe it has to be after 4 p.m. AND have the Sunday readings as well.
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Any Mass celebrated from 4:00 pm on Saturday through 11:59 pm on Sunday counts for the Sunday Obligation. A nuptual Mass that is celebrated on Saturday after 4:00 does not need to use the readings for the following Sunday, but such a nuptual Mass will fulfill the Obligation.
A friend of mine told me that her cousin was practically BEGGING the pastor to allow her 2 p.m. wedding to “count” as fulfilling the Sunday obligation (…), but he said even if she were to agree to have the Sunday readings, 2 p.m. is too early to be considered a vigil.
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A friend of mine was the best man at an afternoon wedding. After the sermon, the priest gazed out at the congregation and proclaimed, “There’s enough people here that if we had a collection, we could count it as a Sunday Mass.” He looked at the couple and asked, “Is this OK with you?” The couple gave their consent, and the priest directed the groomsmen to get the usher’s baskets and take up a collection. I doubt a priest could do this, but it was a humorous story when my friend told it.
 
az_4_faith said:
However, the priest presiding at the Nuptual Mass could grant dispensation for Sunday Mass attendance to the congregation present if asked. I have attended weddings where such was given, but very, very rarely.
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You can’t be dispensed from the Sunday obligation for any old reason, you need “just cause” (can. 1245). So the reason dispensations are very rarely given is, we should remember, that conditions for them in relation to nuptial Masses are equally rare.
 
Dandelion_Wine said:
Greetings all.

I had the privilege of standing up in the wedding of a longtime friend. As you may have guessed I was out quite late.

They had the gift opening early the next morning so I had to get up early to get to Mass before the opening.

As my alarm clock went off and I reached over to shut it off I got to thinking. Ok, it was more like feeling sorry for myself. I was whining in my mind that while all the people in the wedding party (with the possible exception of 1) and the married couple are catholic, I’d bet my mortgage that I was the only one going to Mass that morning.

Since the nuptial Mass was at 11 on Saturday, it was a moot point I believe.

BUT if the nuptial Mass is in the afternoon, I thought it still didn’t “count” as one’s sunday obligation but I couldn’t remember exactly why. Is it because the readings aren’t the same or some other reason?

Thanks.
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You are correct the way I interpret the document for a Mass to be a Sunday “vigil”, or Holy day Vigil, it must use the proper readings. However it does also say in another place that attendance at any Catholic Liturgy on Sunday or the Holy day satisfies the obligation. The readings in the Easter Catholic Churches do not match the Western Lectionary, but the Mass still “counts”.

That is a good question. Must a Nuptial Mass on a Saturday evening use the proper readings for Sunday?
 
Apparently any Mass, including a wedding Mass, which occurs after 4pm on a Saturday, counts as a Saturday vigil Mass as far as the Sunday obligation is concerned.

See this previous reply from the AAA forums here.
 
Hmm, I was led to believe it didn’t need to have the same readings as the regular Sunday readings, unless it is a circumstance like the Second Sunday of Easter in which case it has to be the prescribed readings for the Second Sunday of Easter. I have been to weddings on Sunday, separate from the regularly scheduled Sunday mass, that used different readings, but were told it still counted.
 
JimG said:
Apparently any Mass, including a wedding Mass, which occurs after 4pm on a Saturday, counts as a Saturday vigil Mass as far as the Sunday obligation is concerned.

See this previous reply from the AAA forums here.
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I have seen that and did not agree with the answer and sent her the quotes from the documents of the Church where it says that the readings on Saturday evening must be the Sunday readings or the proper vigil readings.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I have seen that and did not agree with the answer and sent her the quotes from the documents of the Church where it says that the readings on Saturday evening must be the Sunday readings or the proper vigil readings.
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Would you be so kind as to post your evidence or a linky to it, please?
 
JimG said:
Apparently any Mass, including a wedding Mass, which occurs after 4pm on a Saturday, counts as a Saturday vigil Mass as far as the Sunday obligation is concerned.

See this previous reply from the AAA forums here.
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Thanks for the links Jim (that link needs to another and another…).

That’s where my question came from I guess. I remember once upon a time hearing that the Saturday anticipatory (is that a word?) Mass that fulfills Sunday obligation counted from 4pm on. But then I could’ve swore that I read somewhere (which Ms. Arnold provided a link to something to that effect) that there was disagreement between the time - whether it was 4pm, 2pm or noon and that Rome hasn’t decreed either way.

So I was thinking then that I’ve been to plenty of nuptial Masses in the afternoon and I’ve always been told that they don’t “count” so I wondered why.

So in conclusion, it would appear that until Brother Rich shows us otherwise, that the answer is - there doesn’t appear to be agreement on the part of canonists about the official time (which is the issue, not the readings).
 
The readings don’t matter.

We were married on Sunday, with 8 priests concelebrating, and we used different readings. My brother-in-law is a priest 🙂
 
I thought that I had read somewhere that the official rule on when the earliest anticipated Mass could begin is tied to recitation of Evening Prayer immediately following.

The verbage to explain is difficult to put on a posting board.
 
MusicMan said:
Would you be so kind as to post your evidence or a linky to it, please?
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I’d love to but it was done by private message about 2 years ago? I located the paragraph in printed form not electronic, and simply typed it out. I believe it was from the document that allowed the Saturday Vigil Mass. Pius X?
 
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