Does after dusk Mass count for Obligation?

[curtishouse29]

This thought was just going through my head and I was wondering if anybody could help clarify it for me. I have a Mass on Saturdays at 5:30 pm at my Parish and that definitely counts for Obligation because I guess it “rolls over” to Sunday for lack of a better term. But my question is about after dusk on Sunday. There is also a Mass on Sundays at 5:30 pm. Would the same rules apply for the aforementioned “roll over”? If so, would the after dusk Mass on Sundays count for Obligation? As you can tell, I’m a tad confused lol I hope somebody can clear this all up for me. God bless.

Curtis

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

This thought was just going through my head and I was wondering if anybody could help clarify it for me. I have a Mass on Saturdays at 5:30 pm at my Parish and that definitely counts for Obligation because I guess it “rolls over” to Sunday for lack of a better term. But my question is about after dusk on Sunday. There is also a Mass on Sundays at 5:30 pm. Would the same rules apply for the aforementioned “roll over”? If so, would the after dusk Mass on Sundays count for Obligation? As you can tell, I’m a tad confused lol I hope somebody can clear this all up for me. God bless.

Curtis

Any Mass with the proper readings for Sunday, even of a different Rite, up until midnight meets the Sunday Obligation.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

This thought was just going through my head and I was wondering if anybody could help clarify it for me. I have a Mass on Saturdays at 5:30 pm at my Parish and that definitely counts for Obligation because I guess it “rolls over” to Sunday for lack of a better term. But my question is about after dusk on Sunday. There is also a Mass on Sundays at 5:30 pm. Would the same rules apply for the aforementioned “roll over”? If so, would the after dusk Mass on Sundays count for Obligation? As you can tell, I’m a tad confused lol I hope somebody can clear this all up for me. God bless.

Curtis

If you think about it, a Mass on Sunday evening MUST count for your Sunday obligation or why would a parish offer it? So yes, a Mass at 5pm or 7pm or 9pm or anytime up to midnight counts for your Sunday obligation. You’ll find a lot of late Sunday Masses at Newman centers and campus ministries.

 

[whatevergirl]

This thought was just going through my head and I was wondering if anybody could help clarify it for me. I have a Mass on Saturdays at 5:30 pm at my Parish and that definitely counts for Obligation because I guess it “rolls over” to Sunday for lack of a better term. But my question is about after dusk on Sunday. There is also a Mass on Sundays at 5:30 pm. Would the same rules apply for the aforementioned “roll over”? If so, would the after dusk Mass on Sundays count for Obligation? As you can tell, I’m a tad confused lol I hope somebody can clear this all up for me. God bless.

Curtis

I’m grateful you asked this question, Curtis. My dh (when he is not working) and I attend a teen mass with our kids at 5:30pm on Sundays…the thought has crossed my mind, but I figured that they wouldn’t have it if it violated anything. Thanks for asking!

 

[tee_eff_em]

Any Mass with the proper readings for Sunday, even of a different Rite, up until midnight meets the Sunday Obligation.

Any Mass with any readings, even of a different Rite, up until midnight meets the Sunday Obligation. (Likewise, any Mass, with any readings and in any Catholic Rite, on the evening of the previous day)

tee

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Any Mass with the proper readings for Sunday, even of a different Rite, up until midnight meets the Sunday Obligation.

It has nothing to do with proper readings. Any Mass that begins at 4PM or later on Saturday fulfills the Sunday obligation.

For example, if you attended a wedding Mass after 4PM, it would fulfill the Sunday obligaton.

 

[tee_eff_em]

It has nothing to do with proper readings. Any Mass that begins at 4PM or later on Saturday fulfills the Sunday obligation.

For example, if you attended a wedding Mass after 4PM, it would fulfill the Sunday obligaton.

F’rinstance: A bazillion people down in Australia just satisfied their Sunday obligation for the XVI Sunday of Ordinary Time, even though they heard from Acts 1:3-8,2:1-11; Ps 102; 1Cor 12:4-13; and Luke 4:16-22a (rather than Wis 12:13,16-19; Ps 86; Rom 8:26-27; and Mt 13:24-43).

(Of course, the liturgy was ceebrated at 1000 hours local, so the dusk question was moot)

tee

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

It has nothing to do with proper readings. Any Mass that begins at 4PM or later on Saturday fulfills the Sunday obligation.

For example, if you attended a wedding Mass after 4PM, it would fulfill the Sunday obligaton.

They must be the readings called for in the Liturgical norms or lectionary in the Latin Rite. Any Mass after 4 pm Saturday must use the readings listed in the proper for either Sunday or a Vigil.

 

[tee_eff_em]

They must be the readings called for in the Liturgical norms or lectionary in the Latin Rite. Any Mass after 4 pm Saturday must use the readings listed in the proper for either Sunday or a Vigil.

Are you saying our Holy Father just intentionally imperiled the souls of a bazillion faithful, by celebrating with the “wrong” readings? :doh2:

tee

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

Are you saying our Holy Father just intentionally imperiled the souls of a bazillion faithful, by celebrating with the “wrong” readings? :doh2:

tee

Not a chance. The readings anyway are outside the Liturgy of the Eucharist. The Pope could stand up and read the newspaper during the Liturgy of the Word and it doesn’t affect the validity of the Eucharist if the Eucharistic Liturgy is valid.

 

[Brendan]

They must be the readings called for in the Liturgical norms or lectionary in the Latin Rite. Any Mass after 4 pm Saturday must use the readings listed in the proper for either Sunday or a Vigil.

That is not actually true.

Canon 1248 §1 “A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.”

The Canon mentions nothing about the obligation only being fulfilled when the propers of the day are used.

That speaks to licity of the Mass, not to if it fulfills the obligation. An illict action by the priest does not render the obligation unfullfilled on the part of the faithful, as long as the Mass itself remains valid.

To OP, the above Canon also address your question. The Mass must be on either the eveining prior, or on the day itself. A Sunday PM Mass is still on the Sunday.

( As a related note, our bishiop, Cardinal Madia, has asked each Vicariate to have a Sunday PM available to the faithful. So if a person cannot attend a Saturday evening, or Sunday morning Mass, there will still be a Mass offering availbale to them within a reasonable driving distance.)

 

[Rachel_J]

It has nothing to do with proper readings. Any Mass that begins at 4PM or later on Saturday fulfills the Sunday obligation.

For example, if you attended a wedding Mass after 4PM, it would fulfill the Sunday obligaton.

I was of the impression that the time was determined by the local diocese, rather than there been an actual set time?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Are you saying our Holy Father just intentionally imperiled the souls of a bazillion faithful, by celebrating with the “wrong” readings? :doh2:

tee

Who said they were the wrong readings?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

That is not actually true.

The Canon mentions nothing about the obligation only being fulfilled when the propers of the day are used.

That speaks to licity of the Mass, not to if it fulfills the obligation. An illict action by the priest does not render the obligation unfullfilled on the part of the faithful, as long as the Mass itself remains valid.

To OP, the above Canon also address your question. The Mass must be on either the eveining prior, or on the day itself. A Sunday PM Mass is still on the Sunday.

( As a related note, our bishiop, Cardinal Madia, has asked each Vicariate to have a Sunday PM available to the faithful. So if a person cannot attend a Saturday evening, or Sunday morning Mass, there will still be a Mass offering availbale to them within a reasonable driving distance.)

I would agree that an illicit Mass is still a valid Mass and would meet the obligation, unless maybe if one knew that it was an illicit Mass and attended anyway. However get out of Canon Law and into the Ltiurgical Norms regarding the Lectionary and the Readings for Mass.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I was of the impression that the time was determined by the local diocese, rather than there been an actual set time?

It is to some extent. The universal Norm is not before 3:30 PM based on the Liturgy of the Hours, the Norm of the U.S. Bishops is not before 4PM and a local Bishop could determine that in his diocese it will be not before 5PM if he wishes.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Who said they were the wrong readings?

Any Mass after 4 pm Saturday must use the readings listed in the proper for either Sunday or a Vigil.

tee

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

tee

That is what the liturgy documents for the United States say, what the liturgy documents say for Australia I have no idea or if the Pope is permitted to use any readings he wants, any time he want (which would make sense to me), I have no clue.

 

[Phemie]

It is to some extent. The universal Norm is not before 3:30 PM based on the Liturgy of the Hours, the Norm of the U.S. Bishops is not before 4PM and a local Bishop could determine that in his diocese it will be not before 5PM if he wishes.

In the Code of Canon Law commentary I was reading recently the universal time was set at 4:00 p.m. based on Pope Pius XII’s 1953 Christus Dominus which first gave permission for Evening Masses.

 

[tee_eff_em]

That is what the liturgy documents for the United States say, what the liturgy documents say for Australia I have no idea or if the Pope is permitted to use any readings he wants, any time he want (which would make sense to me), I have no clue.

Could you be more specific about these liturgy documents for the United States? I am apparently unfamiliar with them.

(Or, if you are using the phrase “proper readings for Sunday” in an unfamiliar way, perhaps you could explain?)

tee

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Could you be more specific about these liturgy documents for the United States? I am apparently unfamiliar with them.

(Or, if you are using the phrase “proper readings for Sunday” in an unfamiliar way, perhaps you could explain?)

tee

I don’t mean to sound rash, but we have done this 5 or 6 times on these boards. The document was listed in several of those threads. I would have to go and dig it out again it’s referenced in a document from the U.S. Bishops on the calendar and the Norms for the Lectionary.