Does any goodness exist in the devil?

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A Thomist would say that existence is good, so while he might be morally evil, make only evil choices, and do a lot of evil, insofar as the devil has existence, that existence is objectively good.
 
Wesrock said:
A Thomist would say that existence is good, so while he might be morally evil, make only evil choices, and do a lot of evil, insofar as the devil has existence, that existence is objectively good.
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You don’t really vanish if you become very evil. Do you?
 
STT said:
Then how evil can be defined as absence of good? Pure evil is empty of good and existence is good.
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I would disagree with a few people in this topic and not use the term “pure evil”, at least not as an ontological description of him. The devil, in so far as he exists, is good. His existence as a thing in itself is good. I would only call him pure evil if I was limiting the description to his behavior, choices, actions… if I referred to what he willed, or assessing his morality.
 
Wesrock said:
I would disagree with a few people in this topic and not use the term “pure evil”, at least not as an ontological description of him. The devil, in so far as he exists, is good. His existence as a thing in itself is good. I would only call him pure evil if I was limiting the description to his behavior, choices, actions… if I referred to what he willed, or assessing his morality.
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So you disagree with definition of evil (absence of good)?
 
STT said:
So you disagree with definition of evil (absence of good)?
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No. I disagree with the people who call the devil in his totality, including his God given existence, pure evil.

Insofar as he exists, he is good. I’ve repeated this many times in this one topic. What he wills is evil.
 
Wesrock said:
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No. I disagree with the people who call the devil in his totality, including his God given existence, pure evil.

Insofar as he exists, he is good. I’ve repeated this many times in this one topic. What he wills is evil.
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Well we can argue about will too. Evil is absence of good. This means that pure evil act does not exist since existence is good.
 
STT said:
Well we can argue about will too. Evil is absence of good. This means that pure evil act does not exist since existence is good.
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Existence is something a Thomist would consider the first and primary act of a being before all other acts, so there is that, but it’s not a willed act. Still, Satan’s will is to lead people away from The Good and minimize it wherever possible.

An interesting explanation a father of the Church once wrote is that Satan cannot touch God, but in his hatred of God he desires to show his hatred of God by desecrating the image of God, of which humam beings are the closest such, like a man who hates his country desecrating the an “image” of the country by burning or otherwise doing offensive things to a flag, or a person wishing to insult another by ruining a statue or picture of that person. By descrating the image he expresses his hate for the object the image is of.
 
Wesrock said:
Existence is something a Thomist would consider the first and primary act of a being before all other acts, so there is that, but it’s not a willed act. Still, Satan’s will is to lead people away from The Good and minimize it wherever possible.

An interesting explanation a father of the Church once wrote is that Satan cannot touch God, but in his hatred of God he desires to show his hatred of God by desecrating the image of God, of which humam beings are the closest such, like a man who hates his country desecrating the an “image” of the country by burning or otherwise doing offensive things to a flag, or a person wishing to insult another by ruining a statue or picture of that person. By descrating the image he expresses his hate for the object the image is of.
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Pure evil means pure irrational. Satan is apparently a rational being therefore the picture you are trying to portrait is not feasible. Your portrait that Satan hates God is only possible if He has deficiency in His nature (jealousy for example) which He is not responsible for it.
 
Satan’s will is voluntary. He made a conscious choice, using all knowledge he had, to hate God.

If you want to consider the term “pure evil” as simply a poetic expression and not technical, that’s fine with me.
 
Wesrock said:
Satan’s will is voluntary. He made a conscious choice, using all knowledge he had, to hate God.
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You need to have a background or have problem in your nature to hate someone. His knowledge could be the source of hate if He has no problem with His nature but He is not responsible for what He knows. Hate is a feeling which comes out from inside. We cannot decide to hate.
 
STT said:
You need to have a background or have problem in your nature to hate someone. His knowledge could be the source of hate if He has no problem with His nature but He is not responsible for what He knows. Hate is a feeling which comes out from inside. We cannot decide to hate.
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I do not refer to the feeling, but to the intentions of his will. To love is to will the good of another. The devil wills to deprive the good from others, to make them pursue trivial, animal goods over rational goods, to lead us as far from the ultimate good as possible. Angels do not have our animal, chemically-based emotions and feelings.
 
Wesrock said:
I do not refer to the feeling, but to the intentions of his will. To love is to will the good of another. The devil wills to deprive the good from others, to make them pursue trivial, animal goods over rational goods, to lead us as far from the ultimate good as possible. Angels do not have our animal, chemically-based emotions and feelings.
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Love and hate are emotion. Why He decide so?
 
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