Does Anybody Feel This Way?

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clarkpm2

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Do any Catholics here feel like not enough is being done about the gross abuses of our religious and human rights in the United States?

Or the threats to the Life, Liberty, and Property of every believing Catholic in this country?

A Few Examples
  1. The HHS Mandate, supported by many so-called Catholic politicians in Washington, and the government planning on bankrupting Catholic services for not complying.
  2. The fact that a large portion of the public is screaming for the destruction of the Church because we don’t celebrate homosexuality or approve of homosexual “marriage.” Read any major American newspaper or news site.
  3. The fact that Planned Parenthood is more credible in the eyes of the American people than the Christian religion.
  4. The fact that the wholesale persecution of our priests and bishops by our own government is extremely possible within the next decade.
The mob is beating the war drum. Are we going to do anything about it except yearn for the good old days?
 
clarkpm2 said:
Do any Catholics here feel like not enough is being done about the gross abuses of our religious and human rights in the United States?

Or the threats to the Life, Liberty, and Property of every believing Catholic in this country?

A Few Examples
  1. The HHS Mandate, supported by many so-called Catholic politicians in Washington, and the government planning on bankrupting Catholic services for not complying.
  2. The fact that a large portion of the public is screaming for the destruction of the Church because we don’t celebrate homosexuality or approve of homosexual “marriage.” Read any major American newspaper or news site.
  3. The fact that Planned Parenthood is more credible in the eyes of the American people than the Christian religion.
  4. The fact that the wholesale persecution of our priests and bishops by our own government is extremely possible within the next decade.
The mob is beating the war drum. Are we going to do anything about it except yearn for the good old days?
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God willing I will defend the Church til my last breath, with every bit of strength God gives me. That said, there’s little I can do besides some activism in what little spare time I have, and persevering in upcoming persecutions through God’s grace.
 
clarkpm2 said:
Do any Catholics here feel like not enough is being done about the gross abuses of our religious and human rights in the United States?

Or the threats to the Life, Liberty, and Property of every believing Catholic in this country?

A Few Examples
  1. The HHS Mandate, supported by many so-called Catholic politicians in Washington, and the government planning on bankrupting Catholic services for not complying.
  2. The fact that a large portion of the public is screaming for the destruction of the Church because we don’t celebrate homosexuality or approve of homosexual “marriage.” Read any major American newspaper or news site.
  3. The fact that Planned Parenthood is more credible in the eyes of the American people than the Christian religion.
  4. The fact that the wholesale persecution of our priests and bishops by our own government is extremely possible within the next decade.
The mob is beating the war drum. Are we going to do anything about it except yearn for the good old days?
Click to expand...
I agree that more can be done about the examples that you cited. My 2 cents: it starts with proper catechism of the faithful. If we thoroughly know not just what the Church’s stances on these issues are, but why the Church holds that way, we will better be able to defend her. Also, those who are knowledgeable could write op-eds, etc. and calmly and with charity defend the Church. And regularly do this, so as not to allow the charges of the opposition to go unchallenged.

However, strength begins from within. I have tremendous sympathy for the priesthood; theirs is a very difficult and incredibly important vocation. But, I’m sorry, too many priests and bishops have made it easy for people to dismiss the Church as a moral authority by their less than stellar behavior.

AzzurriFan
 
I feel that many bishops have let down the Church not simply because of scandals and what not, but by failing to be soldiers of Christ (well, in their case it might be generals of Christ). Simply put, many bishops seem “wishy washy” and fail to raise a hand against any abuse or plot of Satan. It the local media isn’t mad at the bishop, then he might not be doing his job.

Just to clairify, I respect the office and the challenges that go with it. However, there are souls at risk when a bishop drops the ball.
 
Imperial_Guard said:
I feel that many bishops have let down the Church not simply because of scandals and what not, but by failing to be soldiers of Christ (well, in their case it might be generals of Christ). Simply put, many bishops seem “wishy washy” and fail to raise a hand against any abuse or plot of Satan. It the local media isn’t mad at the bishop, then he might not be doing his job.

Just to clairify, I respect the office and the challenges that go with it. However, there are souls at risk when a bishop drops the ball.
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Amen brother!

And something we all need to do is be firm, but loving when discussing our beliefs. We can’t be like the Westboro Baptist Church “condemning” everyone to hell and saying that God hates everyone. We need to be kind and loving in our approach, even when others are yelling at us, calling us “homophobes” and saying that we’re “attacking women’s rights”. We also need to contact our bishops asking what we can do to help, or if the bishop is “wishy washy”, (i.e. passive agressive) we need to inform them just how important these issues are to not just Catholics, but all faiths. It starts with the Church because we’re so large and in the public eye, then spreads to other faiths as well, until all religions are being persecuted. We need to be soldiers for Christ and his Church!
 
I do not feel this way. I think the Catholic Church is wrong on its idea about the HHS Mandate.
 
Honestly, I beleive this is our own gosh darn fault. Both in America and in other Western nations.

We sat back en masse and watch such evils as contraception, porn, abortion, homosexual marriage waltz in and set up shop. Sure, there were always a few Catholic groups that stood up and waaahed about it, and our Pope releases letters but how many are actually considered and listened too?

Contraception is being taught in Catholic schools, the faith is being neglected at an academic level, essentially every Catholic I know in my family and in real life who is of the “sexual revolution generation” accept and use contraception or sterilisation. When there’s stats like 98% of Catholics use contraception in the media, of course people are going to support the Mandate. Sure, the 98% is probably only about 70%, but 70% is too high! 1% is too high! Catholics are co-habitating, they are aborting, they are in homosexual relationships, they are flouting the teachings of the church in public and still think they can take communion!

We have brought this on ourselves.

Sure, I think we can get back, but its going to be a long, hard fight, and its going to take a heck of a long time.

Planned Parenthood thugs are simply taking advantager of our generations of laziness.
 
If persecution comes, it is for our own good. "Without much tribulation we can not enter the kingdom of heaven." It seems to me that we are a luke warm church, and really not much different from mainstream America.

I see it as spiritual pride to think that secular America is suppose to have the wisdom and graces of our Lord Jesus Christ to be able to separate truth from error. Impossible!.

We are suppose to be the light of the world, as much by our actions, as by our words.
We ought to be praying first for repentance in our own lives, then in the church, then in America.

‘’ Judgement comes first to the house of the Lord."

Bishop Cyprian of Carthage attributed the persecution of the church in his day (3rd century) as a chastisement from God for pursuing mammon.

May God make us humble and transparent in the truth and love of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Micah
 
vera_dicere said:
Honestly, I beleive this is our own gosh darn fault. Both in America and in other Western nations.

We have brought this on ourselves.

Sure, I think we can get back, but its going to be a long, hard fight, and its going to take a heck of a long time.

Planned Parenthood thugs are simply taking advantager of our generations of laziness.
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It seems the entire history of mankind is our never ending battle between good and evil.

We want the allure of this unprecedented Material World at the risk of losing our Spiritual World. We forget, or choose to ignore that, in the end, we will live in either Heaven or Hell for all eternity.

We think short term and igonore the long term. We over value Freedom. These past 50 years it has been “Drugs, Sex and Rock n Roll” and the Pill. Anything goes.

The divorce rate is higher, the unwed mother rate is higher, we abort more than 1,000,000 babies each year these past 40 years. NO ONE holds MEN accountable. Let the government handle it all.

The federal government is nearly $16 thousand billion dollars in debt and borrows 40 cents of every dollar it spends today. Local governments are going bankrupt because they try to handle too much that should be handled by individual families with personal responsibilty to do the smart thing and NOT the stupid thing. We have a nationwide high school drop out rate of 25% and a drug addiction rate of 9%.

Anyone who speaks up for true CHRISTIAN values, the ones we need to keep Heaven a possibilty of each of us, is castigated in the press. See Chik-fil-a today. A principal of a Catholic high school in RI wrote a letter to the editor against the President’s change for gay marriage. The vast majority of alumni who commented were against him. Is there any wonder why other religious leaders are timid?

Yet Pope Benedict XVI this week appointed a bishop to be Archbishop of San Francisco who has been fully involved in supporting Prop 8 - Protection of Traditional Marriage.

We, who think we are more than Catholic in name only, need to express our support for those who speak up, and speak up ourselves within our family and friends, and write to our political leaders, AND vote our Catholic consciences.
 
The issue is complex. Should the Christian Science Monitor provide health insurance for its non-Christian Science employees because the church doesn’t believe in doctors.
Code: 
Obama has tried to find a compromise with the church. Sometimes I think that certain people within the hierarchy wanted an excuse to come out strongly against Obama, and they found it. I mean, no Catholic employee has to get birth control if he/she doesn't want it. Many people I know simply see this as a Catholic attempt to suppress artificial birth control, used by millions of devout Catholics who are conscientious about the size of their families, determined to provide their children with good educations, etc. We no longer live in a farm society when large families were easier to feed and a sort of social security for parents (before SS).

 One angle that is often overlooked. I've heard that Catholic Charities - for example - has about a $3 billion annual budget. Over 2/3 of that comes from the fed government, taxes of all Americans. Only $180,000,000, I've read, comes from Catholic parishes - or about $3 per US Catholic. Much of the balance comes from United Way and other community fund-raising efforts. 

  So, I wonder how loudly the Church should be complaining when it receives so much money from non-Catholics. The Church gets the credit for Catholic Charities out in the field, etc., yet Catholic communicants apparently contribute only a small fraction of its budget directly. I'm waiting for the cry to go up that this not only violates the separation of church and state but involves religious discrimination. No other church receives anywhere near as much money as the Catholic Church does.
 
Let’s take this step by step
Roy5 said:
The issue is complex. Should the Christian Science Monitor provide health insurance for its non-Christian Science employees because the church doesn’t believe in doctors.
Click to expand...
This isn’t entirely true about Christian Sciencist. Their belief is that its member should look to God for healing first, before science. It does not deny scientific means outright.

And providing health insurance is a way to keep people alive and healthy. Pregnancy isn’t a disease, so there is no sense in providing birth control which is cheap enough for people who want it anyway.
Roy5 said:
Obama has tried to find a compromise with the church.
Click to expand...
Yes and no, but there is no way to compromise.
Roy5 said:
Sometimes I think that certain people within the hierarchy wanted an excuse to come out strongly against Obama, and they found it. I mean, no Catholic employee has to get birth control if he/she doesn’t want it.
Click to expand...
This isn’t about the employees, it is about the company itself. People who work for a Catholic organization can get birth control if they want, just not on the company’s dollar. That is the issue. And we should have the right to say we don’t want to provide it.
Roy5 said:
Many people I know simply see this as a Catholic attempt to suppress artificial birth control, used by millions of devout Catholics who are conscientious about the size of their families, determined to provide their children with good educations, etc. We no longer live in a farm society when large families were easier to feed and a sort of social security for parents (before SS).
Click to expand...
I wonder if you even know how birth control works. The biggest reason the Church is against birth control is that almost all birth control has the chance of aborting a baby. You may say, “Well, there’s a large enough chance the baby will die anyway”. And yes, there is that possibility, but that possibility is by natural causes. It is one thing for something to die naturally and another for one to say “Oh, it may die anyway, so what’s the harm in just killing it and getting it over with”. You have a chance to die tomorrow, we all do, but you wouldn’t find it logical for someone to say, “Oh, you have the chance to die tomorrow, so why don’t I just kill you now and get it over with!”
Roy5 said:
One angle that is often overlooked. I’ve heard that Catholic Charities - for example - has about a $3 billion annual budget. Over 2/3 of that comes from the fed government, taxes of all Americans. Only $180,000,000, I’ve read, comes from Catholic parishes - or about $3 per US Catholic. Much of the balance comes from United Way and other community fund-raising efforts.
Click to expand...
Big word here “Charities”, aka. money that goes into helping people, especially helping people STAY ALIVE! Providing birth control would be helping others to keep people from living, even if it means killing them.
Roy5 said:
So, I wonder how loudly the Church should be complaining when it receives so much money from non-Catholics. The Church gets the credit for Catholic Charities out in the field, etc., yet Catholic communicants apparently contribute only a small fraction of its budget directly. I’m waiting for the cry to go up that this not only violates the separation of church and state but involves religious discrimination. No other church receives anywhere near as much money as the Catholic Church does.
Click to expand...
The Church may get credit for Catholic Charities, but that is because those charities are part of the Church.
 
clarkpm2 said:
Do any Catholics here feel like not enough is being done about the gross abuses of our religious and human rights in the United States?

Or the threats to the Life, Liberty, and Property of every believing Catholic in this country?

A Few Examples
  1. The HHS Mandate, supported by many so-called Catholic politicians in Washington, and the government planning on bankrupting Catholic services for not complying.
  2. The fact that a large portion of the public is screaming for the destruction of the Church because we don’t celebrate homosexuality or approve of homosexual “marriage.” Read any major American newspaper or news site.
  3. The fact that Planned Parenthood is more credible in the eyes of the American people than the Christian religion.
  4. The fact that the wholesale persecution of our priests and bishops by our own government is extremely possible within the next decade.
The mob is beating the war drum. Are we going to do anything about it except yearn for the good old days?
Click to expand...
What do you suggest? I don’t understand the “yearning for the good old days” remark at all. It’s offensive, since a reading of Catholic history will show that before the start of the 5 year plan of indoctrinating people to sexual perversion as a good (in 1968), Catholics were practicing their faith more.

Peace,
Ed
 
vera_dicere said:
Honestly, I beleive this is our own gosh darn fault. Both in America and in other Western nations.

We sat back en masse and watch such evils as contraception, porn, abortion, homosexual marriage waltz in and set up shop. Sure, there were always a few Catholic groups that stood up and waaahed about it, and our Pope releases letters but how many are actually considered and listened too?

Contraception is being taught in Catholic schools, the faith is being neglected at an academic level, essentially every Catholic I know in my family and in real life who is of the “sexual revolution generation” accept and use contraception or sterilisation. When there’s stats like 98% of Catholics use contraception in the media, of course people are going to support the Mandate. Sure, the 98% is probably only about 70%, but 70% is too high! 1% is too high! Catholics are co-habitating, they are aborting, they are in homosexual relationships, they are flouting the teachings of the church in public and still think they can take communion!

We have brought this on ourselves.

Sure, I think we can get back, but its going to be a long, hard fight, and its going to take a heck of a long time.

Planned Parenthood thugs are simply taking advantager of our generations of laziness.
Click to expand...
Hold on now. Let’s not paint with too broad a brush. Catholic communities were stronger and acted out their lives as Catholics more consistently in the 1950s and 1960s. I was there, and We Were Lied To. We need to understand why this happened not just sit and wring our hands. There have always been dissidents inside the Church and dissidents who hated the Church and wanted to be “free” of being ashamed, “free” to celebrate their sexual perversions, and “free” to not be called sinful. But who was standing in their way? The Catholic Church.

During the time period I’m writing about, people were more polite, kind and caring. Sure, it was not perfect, but it was a lot better than what we have now. We had prayer in schools, we pledged allegiance to our flag and “one nation under God.” We didn’t have anarchists waking up one day and howling over the fact that there’s a nativity in front of a public building !!! and taking every city to court over it - and the ACLU did not have to pay a dime.

If we don’t know how, then we will miss the wolves again. We were more trusting back then, because the federal government and the media reflected our Christian values, which made us easier prey when the liers spread their lies.

1960 The FDA approves the birth control pill

1966 The vicious anti-family group called the National Organization for Women is founded, but their full effect would not be felt until the 1970s.

1967 How do you market The Pill? I mean birth control manufacturers had to convince the public that, like any product, it would provide a benefit. In this case - freedom. Freedom from Fear. Fear of what? Babies.

Time magazine cover story dated April 7, 1967:

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,843551,00.html

The top line says it all: “Contraception: Freedom from Fear.”

Pope Paul VI saw what was coming and he had some in the Church try to convince him to loosen the Church’s ban on artificial contraception. Instead, he reaffirmed constant Church teaching in the 1968 encyclical, Humanae Vitae.

The reaction from the howling wolves?

“Within 24 hours, in an event unprecedented in the history of the Church, more than 200 dissenting theologians signed a full-page ad in The New York Times in protest. Not only did they declare their disagreement with encyclical’s teaching; they went one step further, far beyond their authority as theologians, and actually encouraged dissent among the lay faithful.”

Did you see the part that reads “…an event unprecedented in the history of the Church…”?

Going back to 1967 for a moment, some Catholic institutions of higher learning signed the Land O’ Lakes Statement, separating themselves from the Church - in the name of Freedom. The result?

archive.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0511fea1sb5.asp

A little hint as to why even Catholic colleges started to go wild after THE SEX WITH ANYBODY - but without love - REVOLUTION began in 1968.

1969 Time to get abortion off the ground with lies and deception, which were spread by the media. The villain in the story? The Catholic Church.

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/abortion/articles-and-addresses/an-ex-abortionist-speaks/

The end of Phase One of the 5 Year Plan occurred in 1973. The Supreme Court, not the people, legalized abortion, citing “penumbras” and “emanations” from the Constitution.

And all Christians fought and still fight to this day.

lifenews.com/2011/11/22/catholic-bishops-presidents-new-book-touts-pro-life-values/

The other thing that occurred in 1973 was the removal, under pressure from gay activists, of homosexuality as a disorder from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual used by the American Psychiatric Association. No science was involved.

amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370

PHASE TWO:

The 1970s saw the purchase or lease of many buildings, the hiring of prostitutes, photographers, filmmakers and employees, printers and distributors for the NEW OPIUM DENS - Adult Bookstores selling images of graphic sex. And the opening of topless bars and strip clubs. This cost millions of dollars. Got that? And they made sure to hire some high-priced lawyers to keep the protesters - those ‘religious nuts,’ off their backs. How? They said, “WE have the First Amendment right” to do this.

And the worst part? They sold swinger magazines that featured page after page of photos of nude or semi-nude women you could contact for anonymous, no strings attached sex.

Finally, the National Organization for Women began its war. A Marxist style class warfare. The victims? Women. The enemy? All men. See what NOW is up to today:

www.now.org/

Peace,
Ed
 
clarkpm2 said:
Do any Catholics here feel like not enough is being done about the gross abuses of our religious and human rights in the United States?

Or the threats to the Life, Liberty, and Property of every believing Catholic in this country?

A Few Examples

1. The HHS Mandate, supported by many so-called Catholic politicians in Washington, and the government planning on bankrupting Catholic services for not complying.

Christians benefit from enormous amounts of public funding. you want governemnt money, you gotta play by the government’s rules. If you don’t want to play by the government’s rules, cut ties with the government and stop taking their money. Hand outs come with strings attached, deal with it.

2. The fact that a large portion of the public is screaming for the destruction of the Church because we don’t celebrate homosexuality or approve of homosexual “marriage.” Read any major American newspaper or news site.

I have seen many comments on web sites, facebook, etc, wishing for the destruction of the Catholic Church. This is not an abuse of your rights. You do not have the right for your opinions to not have consequences. Until the government sets forth to actually destroy you**, your rights are not being violated. The fact that some people *wish *you were destroyed and vocalize that wish is not a rights violation. You have no right for people to be forced to like you and sing your praises. Heck, no one has the right to not be hated, even if you’re the most moral, uncontroversial person in the country. I certainly don’t have the right to not be hated, I don’t know why you think you have such a right considering no one has had this right in the history of the United States.

*3. The fact that Planned Parenthood is more credible in the eyes of the American people than the Christian religion. *

You do not have the right to be liked and respected more than people you disagree with. I’m a vegetarian. Most people are not. Most people I know do not respect the fact that I am a vegetarian, in fact, I am contantly teased because of it. Boo freaking hoo, people don’t like my pet cause. It’s not my right to be more popular than meat eaters.

4. The fact that the wholesale persecution of our priests and bishops by our own government is extremely possible within the next decade.

This is speculation, and not speculation I agree with. Until the government ACTUALLY starts persecuting your priests and bishops, your rights are not being violated. You can’t claim you are having your rights violated *now *because you’re afraid someone *might *do something to you in the future.

Being well liked, respected, and popular is not a right, nor is lack of popularity and respect an abuse of your freedom or a threat to your life.

You seem to be confusing lack of freedom with your actions having consequences. Hate to break it to you, you do not have the right to do and say whatever you want and still be beloved and respected by society.

When polling is done in the United States regarding views of atheists, they tend to reflect that atheists are one of the most detested and untrusted groups in society. They are far, far more despised than catholics. So why aren’t you fighting for the human rights of Atheists, since apaprently you think people not liking you is a gross violation of human rights?

Free speech means you can say what you want (unless you are willfully attempting to incite panic or violence) and not go to jail for it. Doesn’t mean that people have to like what you say, no matter what you say.

Even if all you say is, “I wish for peace on earth, and goodwill towards men, and for all people to be happy, healthy, and loved.” Doesn’t matter. You still have no right for people to NOT leave nasty comments on your blog and tell you it’s the stupidest thing they’ve ever heard. You could argue that it’s unfair, sure, or unjustified. You could rally your friends to speak in your defense. But at the end of the day, no matter how unreasonable or nasty a criticism it may be, it’s not an attack on your liberty.
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Nowhere did I see clarkpm2 say that his right not to be insulted was violated. He saw the things listed as a threat, due to the fact that the public as well as government may push for ways of making the church compromise morals or pay severe fines for not being in line with government policy.
 
Roy5 said:
The issue is complex. Should the Christian Science Monitor provide health insurance for its non-Christian Science employees because the church doesn’t believe in doctors.
Click to expand...
Not if it violates their religion. Absolutely not. And the government should not compel them to provide health insurance or violate their conscience.
 
How about if every Catholic institution stopped accepting any federal funds?
Would that mean that they could disregard the HHS mandate?
No, it would not. They would still be compelled to violate their religion or pay a fine or go out of business, without respect to whether or not they receive any federal funds whatsoever.

Of course, private business already find themselves in this quandary. If a Catholic business owner finds himself compelled by the HHS mandate to violate his conscience, as he will, he can either pay a fine for staying Catholic, reject his religion, or go out of business.
 
Nothing you listed in the OP comes close to being an abuse of human or religious rights.
 
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