Does anybody just like things the way they are?

[Saoirse]

(please, I don’t mean to offend anyone, but I just have to say this. take it or leave it as you will)

since I’ve started reading in this particular forum, I’ve noticed people complaining a lot.

people don’t like the homilies being so long or holding so
much importance in a MASS.

people don’t like the music being chosen in Church.

people don’t like how others dress for MASS.

people don’t like that other people bring water bottles to
Church.

people don’t like liturgical dancers of any form anywhere near
the MASS.

people don’t like Eucharistic Ministers.

people don’t think that those of us not in full communion with
the Church, for whatever reason, should be able to approach
for a blessing in the communion line.

the list goes on… (as does this post)

 

[Saoirse]

(…continued from above…)

is there anybody who actually likes the way things are done?

:yup: I personally enjoy listening to the longer homilies.

:yup: I have not yet disliked any of the songs we’ve sung,
as a choir, for MASS.

:yup: I prefer to dress comfortably and let others do the same,
within reason and the bounds of modesty, of course. I
don’t really pay attention to who’s wearing jeans as
opposed to who’s wearing the loose skirts and
headcoverings.

:yup: I don’t care who brings or doesn’t bring a water bottle to
MASS. I honestly don’t pay that much attention to what
everyone else is doing, and on days when we practice for
an hour and a half before MASS in the choir, I find the
use of a water bottle to be practicle.

:yup: I wouldn’t mind liturgical dance, as long as some form of
modesty was observed and as long as it is handled
properly. In fact, I think some of the most worshipful
moments of my life have involved dancing for the Lord.

:yup: I think that Eucharistic Ministers are, quite frankly,
practicle in most Churches in the city I live in. I get the
impression that most, if not all, Eucharistic Ministers are
properly in awe of the ministry they are privileged to
perform, and I can see their ministry actually drawing
them into a deeper, more profound relationship with our
Lord.

:yup: Finally, I think that getting a blessing during communion
was the best thing that ever happened to me, and I don’t
feel like my week is complete without such a blessing.
It’s those blessings that remind me that even if I wasn’t
born into a family that could offer me faith as a child, that
God still loves me and still is calling me to choose to
belong to Him.

Simply put, I am baffled at how many people have found so many reasons to complain and nit-pick at the way MASS is celebrated in different parishes - at the way other people come to worship Him - and at just about everything there is to community worship.

I just don’t understand how so much attention can be put on what may or may not be wrong with the way MASS is celebrated, when there are children growing up in these free western nations of ours who are actually forbidden to attend Church by their parents, who are ostracized from their families for choosing to believe what they do.

As one such child, who grew up in my father’s house being actively discouraged from any faith I believed in, who grew up essentially forbidden to attend church, and who grew up with the understanding that my immediate family thinks me ‘stupid’ and ‘foolish’ for believing in God at all - unable to participate in family conversation without being ridiculed to the point of tears because of my beliefs - and I am just so greatful to be able to worship Him now,

and I understand that God cares more about what is inside my heart, mind and soul when I come to worship Him, than He does about what is on my body, or which song I choose to worship with, or what words I use to pray or if I happen to need a sip of water half way through - and I know He understands how I crave those weekly blessings, for He is the One who gave me that craving and used it to draw me to His Church.

Community Worship is a privileged experience. It is a gift, given freely to some of us, and not at all to others. I feel it is best to respond joyfully to the call to Worship Him, rather than to criticize the details of how it is done.

He knows, after all, what is in our neighbor’s heart - far better than we know what is in even our own selves - and that I am allowed to worship along with other believers to me is awesome enough that I feel no need to judge the believers He has given me for brothers and sisters, or the leaders He has given me to follow in worship.

I am no theologan (yet ), but I am sure that God cares more about the awe and love that is in the hearts of those who come together to worship Him than about the details of how it is done.

love
Saoirse

 

[Jeanette_L]

I have a theory about this, if you want to hear it!

We all have something to bring to the Church, as far as time, treasure or talent goes. Some people are more adept at paying close attention to details, it’s the way they are wired. Their attention to the liturgical scene and whether there are serious abuses, are needed, otherwise eventually there would be nothing but chaos. Just look at the chaotic nondenominational world in Christendom for a great example of what can happen with no boundaries whatsoever!

Then there are those who are more free spirited in their faith, they literally get dizzy when someone comes at them with a rule book and starts lecturing on the nitty-gritty of everything liturgical. These free spirits are needed also, for balance.

It’s in the dialogue between the two that we have breathable air and vitality and stability, all of which are needed in a living Church. Sometimes it seems like there is nothing but fighting going on and can get frustrating if you don’t see it in perspective, but it is all necessary to keep the Church moving forward to her destination.

JMHO.

 

[Saoirse]

what you say, Jeanette, makes sense. after all, I wouldn’t want to see people dressed for the beach at MASS, and I do appreciate the need for rules, and I also understand that in order to reflect the faith of the people, opinions of those same people is required to have some place in the celebration of MASS and worshiping of our Lord.

I just feel so frusterated at all the complaining and attacking of various worshipful experiences I have had this past year and a half.

I have felt nothing negative about my experiences attending MASS, and it actually hurts me to realize that so many people see so many pieces of it negatively - it’s almost like seeing the whole thing negatively when so many pieces are criticised.

It’s like I am going to be explaining to a friend at work:

I cannot imagine living without this God who has called me - in fact, I remember hurting so badly I wanted to die, so badly that it was worse than death and worse than hatred, hurting so deeply I never thought I’d make it, never thought I was worth it - I remember from my own life what it was like to be without God, without the ability to know He was there - it is beyond words or reasoning, but I believe that I have in this life known hell through my isolation…

and I am so thankful that He found me and brought me Home, that He is bringing me Home… that He still wants me after all I’ve done in my desperation and pain…

and my joy is so complete in Him, it hurts me now to see how many people are limited in their own joy in Him by things that have only to me expressed and magnified my own joy.

do you understand my feelings?

love,
Saoirse

 

[Jeanette_L]

I do understand how it makes you feel. I am very similar in the way I see my place in the Church, my relationship with Christ is a very personal and moving, living experience. And sometimes the attitudes of people around me who are more serious about how things should be done, according to rules that I don’t even care to know about or understand, well they seem to be a downer to me at times. But I’ve been around a long time and have learned that I can’t look at what goes on around me and be consummed by it or I will sink, just like St. Peter when he took his eyes off Christ in the storm.

My advice to you is that you live and let live. And I don’t mean to sound like it doesn’t matter, but it will save you a lot of emotional ups and downs if you just learn at this stage to let those around you express what they want and don’t let it affect the way you live and relate to Christ in your own relationship with Him. In other words, don’t make it your battle or internalize it all. Enjoy what Christ has called you to, if others want to be miserable in their journey, (or maybe they just appear so) let it be. Like I said previously, your gifts are yours alone, and their gifts are theirs. You may never see eye to eye on style, just relax and enjoy how God is leading you in His love! You’ve got a long journey ahead of you, don’t sweat the things that don’t make sense to you right now.

 

[Saoirse]

I want to hug you right now.

I just love every minute I get to spend with God. I feel like I’m finally alive when I’m praying, in a way I’ve never been alive before. (there is no way to express it completely, is there?)

You’re right. I need to stop paying attention to all the criticism around me, and continue to worship in every way that remains open to me and in every way that becomes open to me, because it is in worship and in worship alone that I feel truly at peace.

I hope everyone can forgive me my rant…

love,
Saoirse

 

[Godfollower]

Thank you, Saoirse, for voicing what I’ve been feeling as I read some posts.

Not that there’s anything wrong with pointing out (and, I hope, trying to solve) problems. We all have beefs with things that happen on occasion, and I’m sure you do too. I recently attended a Mass at a different parish, and the entire homily focused on filling out pledge cards for how much each family intended to give this year. I felt (A) left out, because I probably won’t be back anyway, because I was attending this church out of a one-time convenience; and (B) deprived of my canonical right to be preached to in a homily at Mass. But it’s obviously a once-a-year thing, and it won’t affect me in the future, so there’s no need to go to the bishop about it.

But some things do need to be fixed. As one example, years ago a friend of mine was a single mom following a divorce that occurred because her husband got tired of her. It’s sad, but it happens. The truly bad thing was that her priest told her she could not receive Communion because she was divorced. This is false teaching; it wasn’t her fault her husband divorced her (you can’t stop a no-fault divorce in this country), and she hadn’t re-married or shacked up with anyone. Her priest simply had the law wrong and deprived her of the Blessed Sacrament – for years! – until she discovered the truth. That’s the kind of thing that needs to be dealt with. If only someone had told her earlier that her priest was wrong!

Someone knelt instead of standing at one point during the Mass? Vice-versa? I can live with it.

I guess what happens is a standard human response: we’re more likely to talk about things we don’t like than about things we do like (so you’re a rarity!). It appears from the posts that just about everyone has some issue with the music at Mass, so naturally a comment about music will draw more posts, and eventually the musicians reading the posts will feel beleagured at best.

My personal music beef is that in our parish every Mass must have the very same songs. So the organ-and-choir Mass, the guitars-and-folk-group Mass, and the cantor-and-piano Mass each must perform, say, Faith of our Fathers, I Am the Bread of Life, You Are Mine, Blest Be the Lord, and Ave Maria – meaning that the organ has to play Blest Be the Lord (which is not pretty on organ!), and the guitars have to perform Faith of our Fathers (which is boring on guitars!). I’d love to see it change; one thing I loved about my old parishes was that the people who liked a particular type of music in Mass could simply go to that Mass. You like Mass to be celbrated with cantor and piano? 7:30. Organ and SATB choir? 9:00. Guitars, piano, flute, and folk group? 10:30. Air guitar, bass drum, and zithyr? 12:00.

(Okay, I was kidding about that last one).

So, my response to you is this: I feel put-upon by excessive negativity at times (not just here; you hear it in your local parish all the time!), so any time you feel down about it, do something positive in retaliation. Everyone’s complaining that Father Wet-Behind-the-Ears gives bad homilies? Drop him a note thanking him for a good point he made last Sunday and encouraging him to keep on truckin’. You’ll feel better; he’ll feel better; and we’ll all get along.

 

[John_Lilburne]

A recent Vatican instruction has highlighted that there are problems with the liturgy of the Roman Rite and that it is important to fix them. A lot of the issues discussed are part of this process.

A few quotes from the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum making this point:
"In some places the perpetration of liturgical abuses has become almost habitual, a fact which obviously cannot be allowed and must cease. " (n. 4)

“… abuses are often based on ignorance …” (n. 9)

“… anyone who acts thus by giving free reign to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved …” (n. 11)

(n. 11-12):
“…The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.
[12.] On the contrary, it is the right of all of Christ’s faithful that the Liturgy, and in particular the celebration of Holy Mass, should truly be as the Church wishes, according to her stipulations as prescribed in the liturgical books and in the other laws and norms. …”

“[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.
[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.”

 

[Jeanette_L]

So, my response to you is this: I feel put-upon by excessive negativity at times (not just here; you hear it in your local parish all the time!), so any time you feel down about it, do something positive in retaliation. Everyone’s complaining that Father Wet-Behind-the-Ears gives bad homilies? Drop him a note thanking him for a good point he made last Sunday and encouraging him to keep on truckin’. You’ll feel better; he’ll feel better; and we’ll all get along.

That’s what I’m talkin’ about! Be the balance in the equation! When someone plays the heavy, be the one to lighten it up a bit. Do what God has created your personality to do, which sounds to me like you are a lover. So just love God and love those around you, even if they get on your nerves!

 

[Jeanette_L]

A recent Vatican instruction has highlighted that there are problems with the liturgy of the Roman Rite and that it is important to fix them. A lot of the issues discussed are part of this process.

A few quotes from the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum making this point:
"In some places the perpetration of liturgical abuses has become almost habitual, a fact which obviously cannot be allowed and must cease. " (n. 4)

“… abuses are often based on ignorance …” (n. 9)

“… anyone who acts thus by giving free reign to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved …” (n. 11)

(n. 11-12):
“…The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.
[12.] On the contrary, it is the right of all of Christ’s faithful that the Liturgy, and in particular the celebration of Holy Mass, should truly be as the Church wishes, according to her stipulations as prescribed in the liturgical books and in the other laws and norms. …”

“[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.
[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.”

And you’ve made my point also! There is a need for people to pay attention to the details. Someone has to, and it’s kind of obvious that this is a strength for you. Just keep in mind that not everyone is gifted with the propensity for this kind of detail, or the desire to even go there.

So, when you come across people like me (or Saoirse) , , who go a little cookoo when someone gets out the book of rules and lists, just understand our strengths lie elsewhere, and don’t take it personally either, as we will try to do the same.

Things would go a lot better if we all saw each other the way Christ does.

 

[Walking_Home]

So how does God see us. As obedient children who abide by His Church our Mother----or disobedient children–who would rather go with our own inclinations.

CCC
171. The Church, “the pillar and bulwark of the truth”, faithfully guards “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints”. She guards the memory of Christ’s words; it is she who from generation to generation hands on the apostles’ confession of faith.57 As a mother who teaches her children to speak and so to understand and communicate, the Church our Mother teaches us the language of faith in order to introduce us to the understanding and the life of faith.

 

[netmilsmom]

So how does God see us. As obedient children who abide by His Church our Mother----or disobedient children–who would rather go with our own inclinations.

CCC
171. The Church, “the pillar and bulwark of the truth”, faithfully guards “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints”. She guards the memory of Christ’s words; it is she who from generation to generation hands on the apostles’ confession of faith.57 As a mother who teaches her children to speak and so to understand and communicate, the Church our Mother teaches us the language of faith in order to introduce us to the understanding and the life of faith.

Amen!
And with that, this is the place to vent. We come here instead of flipping out at our parishes.

If one doesn’t like people venting, perhaps it is time to get off the forums and go work in your parish.
Because you are personalizing people’s complaints.
Just like where one poster says, I like to dress comfortably, and another comes in and says in my parish that means ready for the beach, stop taking everyone’s comments from your own perspective and understand that most times, you have no clue what it is like to walk in their shoes.

CAF is not life. Get off the computer and go live.

 

[Alexius]

In Orthodoxy (also applies to Eastern Catholicism), there are so many laws about not kneeling from Wednesday to ______ and not at all on Sundays and…I don’t mind them, but find that different parishes do/don’t enforce based on the traditionalism of the priest and orthodoxy of the people. At one parish, the priest is open when it comes to allowing the congregation to worship (that is - many kneel, pray, etc.), as he feels that God would rather have us truly worship Him even if it means disobeying the Church laws. At another parish, the practices are very orthodox - that is, no pews, no kneeling, prostrations, long service (Nativity was a “short service” - 3 hours), etc. I don’t mind either way - as long as the people are worshipping God to the truth of the liturgy and partaking of the mysteries. I am more of a traditionalist, but since I am of Slavic descent and attend Slavic churches, I recognize the practices in Slavic Christianity that are highly influenced by Rome (pews, kneeling, occasional Rosary, etc.). I think it’s pretty cool:thumbsup: !

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[shirleytowers]

I am fine with my parish. No complaints. Oh well there were those teenagers talking incessantly right behind us during the whole mass last week…but other than that…okay and also those people who bring loud toys for their kids…but other than that I am perfectly happy with my church. The priests are great. The parishoners are lovely. The mass follows the rules.

.