Does anyone else have a problem with "moving" Holy Days to the nearest Sunday?

[spiderweb]

I have a problem with it but only on a personal level. I show up at church on the Holy Day and there is no one there. But I also attend an FSSP parish on some Sundays, which does not move the feast to the Sunday.

So I miss the Holy Day at my local parish because it has been moved to Sunday, then I miss the Holy Day again at the FSSP parish on Sunday because they didn’t move the Feast.

So I really have to plan ahead and schedule where I am going to be when a Holy Day is coming up.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have no problem at all with following the disciplines of the Church. If something changes, I do not presume that the authorities are in error–they are far more learned than I. These are not dogmas or doctrines, they are disciplines. I adjust myself to the Magisterium, the Magisterium does not have to adjust itself to me. They will not ask me to do something sinful or bad for me. Also, God says in the Scriptures that He desires obedience over sacrifice, so if I have a choice, I choose obedience.

I also am not going to presume, on my own part, what is good for others. I might prefer something, but I am not going to say it is good for everyone, and I am certainly not going to presume those in authority made a mistake, unless it is sinful.

That is how I feel about questioning our Shepherds and their decisions.

 

[Seamus_L]

Our world has to be re-Catholicized so we can go back to the way we used to do things.

 

[CB_Catholic]

It’s actually cool you posted this. I recently bought the “Apostolic Father’s”, so I will be reading this soon. I actually just started, but I wanted to read “The Shepard of Hermas” first, because I have heard so much about it, and boy it is a really amazing read. Part of me wonders why the Church Fathers didn’t ultimately include it in the NT.

I read “The Shepherd of Hermas” and I guess I can understand why it did not make the canon, as, IIRC, it was a book of visions to Hermas, and although popular in the early Church, and instructive, did not come from one of the Apostles, as did the Book of Revelation, which was from the Apostle John, and thus carried Apostolic Authority.

But I read it a long time ago, and my assessment may be wrong.

 

[pianistclare]

Nope.

The church sets 'em and just as St. Ignatius of Antioch tells us…I follow the bishop.

Me too!

 

[pianistclare]

I have no problem at all with following the disciplines of the Church. If something changes, I do not presume that the authorities are in error–they are far more learned than I. These are not dogmas or doctrines, they are disciplines. I adjust myself to the Magisterium, the Magisterium does not have to adjust itself to me. They will not ask me to do something sinful or bad for me. Also, God says in the Scriptures that He desires obedience over sacrifice, so if I have a choice, I choose obedience.

I also am not going to presume, on my own part, what is good for others. I might prefer something, but I am not going to say it is good for everyone, and I am certainly not going to presume those in authority made a mistake, unless it is sinful.

That is how I feel about questioning our Shepherds and their decisions.

well stated, YES.

 

[otjm]

Christ said he would vomit the lukewarm Rev 3:16

OT:

I don’t think the church should cut corners, and should keep the liturgical days on the dates, they are there for a reason. Man must conform to the faith, not the other way around.

This is way vespers and vigils have almost been eradicated outside monastic communities. The Church that Christ founded and gave power is more than just a hobby activity to do, instead of watching TV.

It was Vatican 2 which invited the laity to say any or all of the LOTH. It simply has not caught on widely; but is not a requirement, either. I would not use the word “eradicated” - but I certainly would like to see it said in community more widely.

The Church is not rigorist; as someone pointed out, it is more in the category of an act of mercy to move Holy Days.

 

[otjm]

The one that bothers me most is Ascension Thursday. 40 days after Christ rose from the dead, and Pentecost Sunday ten days after that, fifty days after the Resurrection.

Umm… out here in one of the most unchurched states in the US, we still celebrate Pentacost Sunday,

Sorry, I could not resist… I know what you meant, and having been involved with RCIA over the last 20 years, I am sorry that we cannot do better for the Ascension.

 

[otjm]

I have no problem at all with following the disciplines of the Church. If something changes, I do not presume that the authorities are in error–they are far more learned than I. These are not dogmas or doctrines, they are disciplines. I adjust myself to the Magisterium, the Magisterium does not have to adjust itself to me. They will not ask me to do something sinful or bad for me. Also, God says in the Scriptures that He desires obedience over sacrifice, so if I have a choice, I choose obedience.

I also am not going to presume, on my own part, what is good for others. I might prefer something, but I am not going to say it is good for everyone, and I am certainly not going to presume those in authority made a mistake, unless it is sinful.

That is how I feel about questioning our Shepherds and their decisions.

 

[otjm]

Our world has to be re-Catholicized so we can go back to the way we used to do things.

Looking at Europe, things are far worse than they are here. I am not sure how bad it has to get, before it gets better.

But as to “the way we used to do thing” - 50 years? 150? 500? 1,000? I would lay dollars to donuts, if you could take a time machine back to any of those ages, you would find people saying the same thing…

 

[pianistclare]

Looking at Europe, things are far worse than they are here. I am not sure how bad it has to get, before it gets better.

But as to “the way we used to do thing” - 50 years? 150? 500? 1,000? I would lay dollars to donuts, if you could take a time machine back to any of those ages, you would find people saying the same thing…

As well as people who didn’t really want to go back…I for one wouldn’t want to go back t the days when the laity didn’t receive Communion as often. Or any of the other things that changed fro the better.

 

[ProVobis]

In Poland some of the Holy Days are actually national holidays or “free days.”

I doubt if they would want to move them to Sundays.

 

[ProVobis]

Our world has to be re-Catholicized so we can go back to the way we used to do things.

I don’t see this happening. The world likes its conveniences.

 

[utah_rose]

I too, object to moving the holy days to Sunday. I believe this is giving in to people who are luke- warm and don’t want to go to Mass during the week.

Some of the feasts that are listed aren’t really celebrated here though, such as the St.Joseph day. But I think Ascension Thursday should always be on s Thursdsy. but a lot changed through T the years. I remember January 1st was the Circunsision. Not the Queenship of Mary! Our former bishop made that a non obligation day. However I remember in the fifties, people came to church that day with hangovers. Also, sometimes the weather is bad and driving conditions not good either.

Not a problem for me with some moved to Sunday as most go to Mass that day. In the fifties 3 priests to one parish, now there’s a shortage with only one priest. People work long hours and sometimes work late in the evening. Don’t even think the kids in parochial schools get the off anymore, so best to go with your local bishop.

 

[pnewton]

As I see it, so many are arbitrary any way. The date itself is no great concern. Even having a certain day to celebrate this event or that pales in comparison to the actual doctrine. So if the doctrine is more important than the day, and the bishops think moving the celebration will better teach the doctrine than honor a day, then I see where they are coming from.

As to Ascension Thursday, while I get the desire to have the count right, I note that the Church has never bothered to get the math right on the 40 days of Lent. Again, like the seven days of creation, the doctrine is more important than the math, and numbers are symbolic in theology, if not in math.

 

[Katherine438]

I would love to see all the Holy Days observed on the day of … but I also follow the teachings of the Church and our Pope … so what I would like is meaningless.

 

[Chatter163]

…like the seven days of creation, the doctrine is more important than the math, and numbers are symbolic in theology, if not in math.

I believe that Scripture speaks of six days of creation.

 

[FrancescaMaria]

I do not see a problem. If a Feast day has been moved, I can still celebrate and go to Mass on the actual Feast date ,because we have a Mass every day anyway and I do that when I can. But I understand that many people do not have that kind of possibility to take a day or a morning off on a regular work day and it is good for them that they get to celebrate on a Sunday

 

[JurisPrudens]

I know countries are not forced to follow the Vatican’s official list of Holy Days, and some countries have more than others, however I feel like moving a day such as Ascension Thursday to the following Sunday just undermines it in a way. Ascension Day is still a Holy Day in my Arch Diocese, however I have heard only a handful in the United States still require it( mainly Northeastern Arch Dioceses) I know other Holy Days, say if it falls on a Saturday or Monday, the Obligation is met on Sunday. I mean I suppose to a lay Catholic who maybe feels Sunday is enough and the rest is a hassle, it is a good thing, but is that why the Church does it? I feel like conforming to make people’s lives not have to require going to Church as often is not a good trend to follow. From what I have read, we have far fewer Holy Days than we once did, and I believe a Pope drastically cut the number drastically in the early 20th century, but now it’s like, very important days in the Liturgical Year are just moved to Sundays. I don’t know I just feel like it isn’t right, I would love to hear others opinions. I personally try to go to mass as often as I can, and don’t understand why we should move feasts when really we don’t have that many anymore. The official Canon of Holy Days are
1 January: Solemnity of Mary, the Holy Mother of God
6 January: Solemnity of the Epiphany of the Lord
19 March: Solemnity of Saint Joseph, Spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary
Thursday of the sixth week of Eastertide: Solemnity of the Ascension of the Lord
Thursday after Trinity Sunday: Solemnity of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ
29 June: Solemnity of Saints Peter and Paul, Apostles
15 August: Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
1 November: Solemnity of All Saints
8 December: Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary
25 December: Solemnity of the Nativity of the Lord (Christmas)

However this is only mandatory in the Vatican, and I know in the United States a few of these are not celebrated. Why is up for grabs, I think these all should be required days to attend mass. I would love to hear opinions on the matter.

If I’m not mistaken, the Latin Catholics in Russia maintain the entire list of Holy Days of Obligation. Nevertheless, Corpus Christi is also usually moved to Sunday.

 

[tee_eff_em]

The one that bothers me most is Ascension Thursday. 40 days after Christ rose from the dead, and Pentecost Sunday ten days after that, fifty days after the Resurrection.

In fairness, the celebration is the Solemnity of the Ascension of the Lord, and it is only colloquially that “Thursday” creeps into the name (as opposed to, say, Ash Wednesday, which must of necessity fall on a Wednesday). But I know what you mean about getting the count right – Not only of the 40 days following Easter, but also the Mother of All Novenas between Ascension (Thursday) and Pentecost.

As I see it, so many are arbitrary any way. The date itself is no great concern. Even having a certain day to celebrate this event or that pales in comparison to the actual doctrine. So if the doctrine is more important than the day, and the bishops think moving the celebration will better teach the doctrine than honor a day, then I see where they are coming from.

As to Ascension Thursday, while I get the desire to have the count right, I note that the Church has never bothered to get the math right on the 40 days of Lent. Again, like the seven days of creation, the doctrine is more important than the math, and numbers are symbolic in theology, if not in math.

:clapping:

tee