The grounds for our redemption lie in the fact that God loves us completely, and His mercy knows no limit. In addition, His creation (people) below the surface truly want to be united with God. Ignorance, weakness, vice, and slavery to sin all come from lack of awareness. Our love is hindered by these, but not our intent to love.
pen_mouth:Yes, but becoming aware of what the conscience holds is a life-long process. And even then, people are subject to blindness. We aren’t born aware of every option in terms of behavior. Five year olds hurt other children, and then learn from the consequences. Empathy plays a huge role in this. The five year old, before hurting the other child and experiencing the other child being hurt, has a very limited scope on how to behave.
You aren’t saying that people are omniscient, right? I don’t see how my observation, based on Luke 23:34, is the least bit contradicted by those verses and chapters. Perhaps you are reading something into my words?
Not sure what the “that” refers to. I’m not trying to be the least bit “smart” here, I am far from high intellect. There is an introspective approach here, a spiritual approach, and it sort of transcends all the judgment.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Blessings to you!
Did that motivate you to go to confession ASAP, as in immediately?.
? … what is ke to be saved ?
This is confusing, as Christ was made man. It is hardly a condescending position.
Let us investigate a little. Why does a person practice sin? Why does a person practice ignorance? It would be good to create a little scenario. What I am talking about is observation, if we simply judge without making observations, we make many assumptions.
I agree. When a person steals, his desire for the goods did not come out of thin air, we all have the desire for wealth, possessions. This desire is part of our nature, and it serves us, as it does squirrels who hoard and bears who constantly push for more territory.
It is fair to say that Jesus understood their position, and forgave them from the heart. And yes, He was praying for them. The rest of it is speculation, I don’t know. What I do know is that we know the Father by knowing Him, and He presents a position of forgiveness of those who persecuted Him, which reflects “Christ did not come to condemn the world”. Knowing His forgiveness vs condemnation is part of that salvation, a big part.
Well, you sound remorseful, so confession is appropriate. If you are not physically able to go, a priest can go to you. Please take care. You have my prayers.
This numb feeling is the self-condemnation, the guilt speaking to you. It is a blindness.
thanks
Yes, but it can be more sinful to avoid a sin sometimes, and your shoplifting example was a great illustration.
Culpability means “blame-ability”. Jesus did not blame the crowd, He forgave them. He forgave them at a deeper level, He understood them and saw their blindness and ignorance.
If a person sees his own life as having negative value, then he does not know what he is doing. People do not take their lives when they see value in life. Seeing value is the state of awareness, seeing lack of value is a state of ignorance or blindness.
Have you seen that a person who refuses to be sorry does not know what he is doing? (I’m not addressing the instance of the person you wrote this post to, who appears remorseful.)
The mentally challenged, or insane, depending on degree of deficit, could be argued they don’t know what they are doing, nor be truly sorry for what they dosteve-b:
Have you seen that a person who refuses to be sorry does not know what he is doing? (I’m not addressing the instance of the person you wrote this post to, who appears remorseful.)
That’s why I said with knowledge and full consent. A person suffering from mental illness (and I am one) to the point of being suicidal might have full knowledge, but not full consent or even full will. By definition, their perception of reality and thus objective truth/ morality is not fully in conformity with objective reality, which can alter their sense of morality. That doesn’t change the fact that suicide is wrong, but it does mitigate their guilt of deliberate self-murder since presumably if they were of sound mind they would not freely consent to killing themselves.
ay yi yi.Good Morning jcm,
jcm2017:
This is confusing, as Christ was made man. It is hardly a condescending position.
Hmm, okay, I see this too. Can you see that all of us are subject to the deficit?
Augustine does not address the reason why a person would try to excuse themselves (avoid penalty) on account of ignorance, that such a person going this route does not know what they are doing.
Exactly. The person would not know what they are doing. The observation I am making is that this is always the case when people sin.
While @Brittany identifies as Catholic, from what I recall she is 17 and has not begun RCIA yet. She is being raised by Baptist parents and plans on going through RCIA when she moves out.
No condescension on your part intended, of course.ay yi yi.
God’s condescension in Christ does not have that connotation.
Perhaps a bit of frustration?I was shopping one day in a local supermarket. I saw two adults trying to navigate the isles looking for a specific item… (jam). I saw this and tried to help, directing them to the proper isle… with no success. A woman came up to me and said these are my students. I asked her, are these students mentally challenged? She said yes. I also asked, are their IQ"S less than 40? She said yes. They couldn’t follow even the simplest instructions. But there was an effort to try, both from the 2 students and the teacher trying to work with them.OneSheep:
That’s why I said with knowledge and full consent. A person suffering from mental illness (and I am one) to the point of being suicidal might have full knowledge, but not full consent or even full will. By definition, their perception of reality and thus objective truth/ morality is not fully in conformity with objective reality, which can alter their sense of morality. That doesn’t change the fact that suicide is wrong, but it does mitigate their guilt of deliberate self-murder since presumably if they were of sound mind they would not freely consent to killing themselves.