Does anyone have a copy of the Awake! April 2007 editon magazine?

[Hellisreal]

This has been the strangest week of my life. First, I am confronted by a “Oneness Pentecostal” now as I went to answer my door to let a friend in, I see a Jehovah Witness left an Awake! magazine at my front steps. I have seen Watchtowers before at grocery stores, but not this magazine.

On Page 14 and 15 of the April 2007 issue is a distorted piece attacking the Catholic Church.

(well, the whole thing kinda does but this takes the cake!)

If anyone has the copy could you please let my know your thoughts, its really got me

The whole topic is about Oblisks and I am not happy with the attack they launch here.

If I have time to type it word for word I will, but I wonder if I can since I think its copywrited so can I?

Or can I post the points? The whole thing is needed to understand it. Does anyone know the law regarding this or how to get a link to the mag so we can all read and comment?

This magazine company ought to be sued!

Dont we have a group to sue for slander?

 

[ASimpleSinner]

This magazine company ought to be sued!

Dont we have a group to sue for slander?

The courts in the US especially do not care much to mingle in issues of slander to begin with, when it involves religous controversy, they are even less inclined. And for good reason. Do we really want US civil courts determining the veracity of claims made by religous groups?

I firmly believe - given the unscholarly tone of the writings in Awake! and its lack of citations - that the articles are generally meant to confuse and confound those who are not knowledgable as well as those who are without well developped facilties to read them critically. But this is a good thing for JWs - better to have uncritical adherents.

I had been in ongoing contact with a JW for a good period of time. We finally stopped discussing these things since at one point the fellow that I was dealing with declared that he would not be bothered to read any articles or information that I sent him that was from a non-JW source unless it was “in my own words”. I told him that, fair breing fair, he would need to do the same as I would not be interested in simply perusing articles from the Watchtower online that he sent.

If he could use sources, I should too. If I could not, he needed to be prepared to go without as well.

The discussion stopped.

Given their dindoctrination into virulently anti-Catholic polemics, it is perhaps best to offer them some Catholic Answers literature - if you have a printer, you could even just print the articles out for them, and make it clear you are Catholic and will stay that way when they come to the door.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I used to have that one, but put it through a paper shredder.

The anti-Catholic stuff actually makes the Catholic Church look MORE appealing.

 

[Hellisreal]

Thanks a simple sinner.

Here is just the first few paragraphs, and its not terribly bad-so far to Catholics anyway-but wait, YOU WILL NOT BELIVE what they end with on this!!

Title- From Egypt to Cities around the World

“They have ‘traveled’ out of the land of their origin,” says the Italian magazine Archeo,“becoming tangible symbols of the great civilization that had produced them.” Most left Egypt long ago and were brought to such places as Isatambul, London, Paris, Rome, and New York. Visitors to Rome may observe that many of the city’s famous squares are adorned by their presence. What are they? Obelisks!

Each tapering four-faced stone column, known as an obelisk, is crowned with a pointed cup in the form of a pyramid. The earliest dates back some 4,000 years. Even the most recent one is about 2,000 years old.

Obelisks, generally of red granite, were quarried by the ancient Egyptians as monolithic blocks of stone and were erected in front of tombs and temples. Some are huge. The largest still standing rises 105 feet above a Roman piazza and weighs some 455 tons. Most are embellished with hieroglyphs.

The monuments’ purpose was to honor the sun-god Ra. They were erected to thank him for his protection and for victories granted to Egyptian sovereigns as well as to request favors. Their shape is thought to have been derived from that of the pyramid. They represent beams of sunlight descending to warm and illuminate the earth.

Additionally, obelisks were used to glorify the Pharaohs. Their inscriptions proclaim various Egyptian soveriegns as “beloved of Ra” or “beautiful…like Atum,” who was the god of the sun at sunset. One obelisk says of a Pharaoh’s military prowess:“His power is like that of Monthu [god of war], the bull that tramples foreign lands and kills rebels.”

The first obelisks were raised in the Egyptian city of Junu

I have to take a break, only half done with page one, and the slams are at the end, but you need to see it all to see where they are going with all this*********

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I am shocked!

SHOCKED, I say!..

SHOCKED… To tell you I have already heard this one. (sigh)

These are like Urban Legends of the Anti-Catholic world. They just don’t go away.

Before you transcribe the offending paragraphs I already know where this is going, I have seen it before many times. It goes something like this.

The Catholic Church, the Whore of Babylon, moved these obilisks to Rome in what (to them) can CLEARLY be seen as an obvious affirmation of how very pagan the Catholic Church is.

No, I have not seen this issue for myself, but I don’t need to.

It is fairly old garbage that has been recycled for years. It isn’t new, it isn’t original, it isn’t imaginitive, and it isn’t true.

Pick up a copy of Karl Keating’s Catholicism And Fundamentalism. It will open your eyes to a whole sub-culture that spews this.

What’s even sadder than these strange and bizarre lies?

That people actually believe and propogate them.

 

[Hellisreal]

I will fast forward a bit to the last bit of the “piece”

When the Roman Empire fell, Rome was ransacked. Most of the obelisks were toppled and lay forgotten. Various popes, however, took an interest in reerecting the obelisks taken fromt the ruins of the city. The Roman Catholic Church

(will be back tomorrow)

 

[Mommyof02green]

If I have time to type it word for word I will, but I wonder if I can since I think its copywrited so can I?

Or can I post the points? The whole thing is needed to understand it. Does anyone know the law regarding this or how to get a link to the mag so we can all read and comment?

Have you tired going to watchtower.org and seeing if the article in question is posted there? If so you could just post some quotes and provide a link to the web-site. (You shouldn’t have to worry about copyright stuff then.)

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Do they realize that an watchtower is a form of an obelisk?

In fact, look at Charles Taze Russells grave site,
freeminds.org/history/cemetary.htm

The Egyptian winged disc symbol (the Uatchti), which appeared in Watchtower literature from 1911 to 1920. It represents Heru (Moonlight), an avatar of the Egyptian god Horus. A personification of the daytime sky and sun, some priests claimed he predated his own birth.

jwfiles.com/emblems.htm

I would not be surprised if they pull out the pagan trinities argument in their article. But, think about it, Satan is a fallen angel, which means at one time he had access to heaven and thus would have been aware of the Trinity. So, if Satan was to make conterfiets of the godhead, it makes sense that he would counterfiet the Trinity by pagan trinities. One does not counterfiet a three dollar bill for example because it does not exist. But, one would counterfiet an hundred dollar bill because it both exists and has value.

 

[Hellisreal]

Have you tired going to watchtower.org and seeing if the article in question is posted there? If so you could just post some quotes and provide a link to the web-site. (You shouldn’t have to worry about copyright stuff then.)

I checked it and yes they have the Awake magazine in there but they dont give dates on the “current” publication and it seems the one they have in there is older (lag time possibly) I tried the search feature and no luck there either!

I am getting frustrated but, I will post the last bit after I help my husband get ready to go to work, he is really late today. I have to type some stuff for him first.

But, after doing some searching for this article, I am getting even more mad! I see they make it their full time job to attack us!

 

[Hellisreal]

The Roman Catholic Church has acknowledged that the obelisks were “dedicated to the Sun by an Egyptian king” and that they once “brought vain magnificence [sic] to sacrilegious pagan temples.”
The reerection of the first obelisks during the reign of Pope SixtusV (1585-90) was accompanied by exorcisms and blessings, as well as the sprinkling of holy water and the burning of incense. “I exorcise you,” sang a bishop before the Vatican obelisk, “to bear the holy Cross and remain deviod of all pagan impurity and all assaults of spiritual iniquity.”

So as a tourist examines the obelisks that stand in Rome today, he may well ponder the genius it took to extract, transport, and raise them. He may also marvel that monuments used in sun worship adorn the city of the popes- a strange combination indeed!

(end of article)

---

 

[b_justb]

Have you tired going to watchtower.org and seeing if the article in question is posted there? If so you could just post some quotes and provide a link to the web-site. (You shouldn’t have to worry about copyright stuff then.)

The Awake magazine articles they have on line there are all from 2006. They have a blurb at the bottom to contact the local congregation for the newest articles.

 

[yessisan]

I think DH has this magazine at home (especially since it’s a past issue). It makes me so mad that he has this type of literature in my own house!! I can’t believe he actually can keep something that offends my religion in my house when I don’t keep anything that offends his. I’m sick and tired of the JWs. My life would be much better w/o them! They have caused me too much pain in my life, and thanks to them I might not even be able to have a child… I hate it how ignorant they are. I hate it DH is one of them…

 

[Hellisreal]

Dear Yessisan,

I am really sorry I posted this because if I had known it would get you so upset, it would never be worth it to me to do it.

I was just so upset by it, since I think they seem to forget that many Christians died on that Obelisk (from what I was told, this is why I am posting it to get knowledgable catholics to elaborate on the details here) And how the Jehovahs only tell one side of the story and I think there is even a plaque on the obelisk dedicated to the martyrs, its so ironic they talk about what a tourist would see… I dont think their “writer” went to see it to check the facts before spewing this hate mongering tripe!

By the way, you may not like the rest of the articles in there either so maybe you should not read it at all.

My blood pressure went up to the moon when I read this.

I am sorry your family has been going through turmoil over this magazine company.

If you dont mind, I will add you to my prayer list.

I think DH has this magazine at home (especially since it’s a past issue). It makes me so mad that he has this type of literature in my own house!! I can’t believe he actually can keep something that offends my religion in my house when I don’t keep anything that offends his. I’m sick and tired of the JWs. My life would be much better w/o them! They have caused me too much pain in my life, and thanks to them I might not even be able to have a child… I hate it how ignorant they are. I hate it DH is one of them…

 

[Hellisreal]

I missed your post Daniel, and thank you for it.

You really are quite knowledgable about cults.

Do they realize that an watchtower is a form of an obelisk?

In fact, look at Charles Taze Russells grave site,
freeminds.org/history/cemetary.htm

jwfiles.com/emblems.htm

I would not be surprised if they pull out the pagan trinities argument in their article. But, think about it, Satan is a fallen angel, which means at one time he had access to heaven and thus would have been aware of the Trinity. So, if Satan was to make conterfiets of the godhead, it makes sense that he would counterfiet the Trinity by pagan trinities. One does not counterfiet a three dollar bill for example because it does not exist. But, one would counterfiet an hundred dollar bill because it both exists and has value.

 

[yessisan]

Hellisreal,

You don’t upset me, the JWs do. The fact that my DH is a JW does too. I love talking about them here though because it helps me vent.

The sad thing is that everything this “religion” is all about is anti-Catholicism. In every book, in every magazine, in every tract, every time they preach, there has to be something anti-Catholic.

For a while I had a couple of JWs visit me but then they got on my nerves around Thanksgiving 06 and Christmas that I told them not to ever come to my house again to speak to me about God. And to think I did it to learn about my DH’s way of thinking. All it did was cause problems at home.

Just remember one thing, the JWs will always publish things against Catholics. They think we are condemned to being extinguished by Jehovah God. All the JWs I’ve met are ex-Catholics, so they take it more seriously and to heart that they are against the CC. They will never stop doing it, but think of this, they only make our Church seem more desireable, they talk too much about it. If they were so sure their religion was the true religion, they wouldn’t be bashing Catholics all the time. They do it because they know they can’t compete w/the Truth!

Dear Yessisan,

I am really sorry I posted this because if I had known it would get you so upset, it would never be worth it to me to do it.

I was just so upset by it, since I think they seem to forget that many Christians died on that Obelisk (from what I was told, this is why I am posting it to get knowledgable catholics to elaborate on the details here) And how the Jehovahs only tell one side of the story and I think there is even a plaque on the obelisk dedicated to the martyrs, its so ironic they talk about what a tourist would see… I dont think their “writer” went to see it to check the facts before spewing this hate mongering tripe!

By the way, you may not like the rest of the articles in there either so maybe you should not read it at all.

My blood pressure went up to the moon when I read this.

I am sorry your family has been going through turmoil over this magazine company.

If you dont mind, I will add you to my prayer list.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I would not be surprised if they pull out the pagan trinities argument in their article. But, think about it, Satan is a fallen angel, which means at one time he had access to heaven and thus would have been aware of the Trinity. So, if Satan was to make conterfiets of the godhead, it makes sense that he would counterfiet the Trinity by pagan trinities. One does not counterfiet a three dollar bill for example because it does not exist. But, one would counterfiet an hundred dollar bill because it both exists and has value.

Wow! I never thought of that!

 

[faelpsanfeel]

Um, doesn’t Catholicism feature a whole pantheon of angels and demons? Are these not supernatural entities? If not, then what are they? Aliens? That seems pretty weird.

If the argument that Catholicism has some pantheistic elements can be dismissed as completely off-base, then consider me quite confused about the nature of reality/the idea that words have definitions.

 

[Hellisreal]

Um, doesn’t Catholicism feature a whole pantheon of angels and demons? Are these not supernatural entities? If not, then what are they? Aliens? That seems pretty weird.

If the argument that Catholicism has some pantheistic elements can be dismissed as completely off-base, then consider me quite confused about the nature of reality/the idea that words have definitions.

Words do have definitions. I dont want to speak over someone and miss their point because words to me may mean something else to someone of another faith tradition.

If I am going to dialouge with you faelpsanfeel, I need to have a clarification of what you allude to, but do not outright say.

Are you saying the Catholic Church is not clear about the nature of reality/the idea that words have definitions?

I ask sincerely to understand your post.

What is it you want me to answer for you in regard to what the Catholic Church teaches?

If I can’t answer it, I will do my very best to ask others with more knowledge, and give you citations and sources of information to back up your own endevor to seek the truth.

If that is what you are seeking.

 

[faelpsanfeel]

I’m really just confused about the whole argument that the trinity and angelic hierarchy constitute paganism.

I’m not confused because I think that this is absolutely true, I’m confused because Catholics act like anyone who brings it up is an idiot. That’s what I meant by the whole “definitions/reality” thing.

 

[Hellisreal]

I’m really just confused about the whole argument that the trinity and angelic hierarchy constitute paganism.

I’m not confused because I think that this is absolutely true, I’m confused because Catholics act like anyone who brings it up is an idiot. That’s what I meant by the whole “definitions/reality” thing.

Define Angelic hierarchy to me, and

tell me if Jesus Christ is the Archangel Micheal…