Does anyone have bad stories from their Protestant days?

[gurneyhalleck1]

I totally understand what you are saying. I have had to explain the closed Catholic Communion with my children that attend a Catholic School. Honestly, I think that they appreciate knowing that at our Eucharist all Baptized Christians are welcomed to the Lord’s Invitation. It was hard for them at first to be denied the Eucharist in the Catholic Church but I think that it has strengthened their faith in not wanting to be a part of a Church that would deny Christ’ body and blood to another Christian.

God Bless!

Hi Jane,

I’m sorry it has been a painful experience for your children. However, for one thing, I would never enroll my children at a school whose Church I feel to be exclusivist, intolerant, or out of line with my beliefs. Therefore, if I were in your situation, I would not have enrolled them at a Catholic school. In my town we have a very excellent Christian school that is run by the Dutch Reformed Church. Most folks that go there are blonde-haired, blue-eyed Dutch. They require you be a sola scriptura, evangelical, “Bible-Christian” and their communion isn’t open to Catholics. I wouldn’t even think of enrolling my three there even if it is an awesome school academically.

Regarding our “closed” communion, it is not because Catholics are exclusivist, nasty, narrow-minded folks seeking to keep Christians away, it is a much different reality. Catholics believe the Eucharist is the ultimate sign of UNITY in the Body of Christ. And for a person to come along who is not a confirmed Catholic who believes in women priests, gay marriages, shaky on abortion, doesn’t totally buy in the to the Papacy, and believes in sola scriptura, how could the Church tolerate such disunity being packaged as a lie? We have a confession of faith and a catechism, one belief, one Church, and the Eucharist is the highest expression of that belief. You should respect that and not view it as a learning opportunity to show your kids that they should be “lucky” not to be in a church of intolerance but rather respect our reasoning and rationale.

The Episcopal Church always boggled me in the fact that in my old parish we had a guy who was a Unitarian. He told me he didn’t buy into the Jesus is the Son of God business. Yet he went up and took communion every Sunday. The Rector and everyone knew it and yet he took of the Cup. There were renegade Catholics that didn’t like all those “pesky rules” we have who had left; they took the Cup. There were some women that had some really far-out beliefs theologically who took communion. A few ladies I talked to believed in cohabitation, abortion, homosexuality, etc. who took the cup.

I am the reverse of you. I was THRILLED to see a Church (Roman Catholic) that actually has standards and tries to live up the Faith of Christ and make sure its flock is of one mind, one heart…aligned to that of Christ the King.

Jesus is not a democracy. Obedience is our lot in life to be Christians. And there is nothing wrong with sharing one heart and one mind, unity in Christ. That’s what I will be teaching my kids.

If you look at the Early Church and can find me an example of orthodox Christians allowing heretics like Gnostics and Pelagianists and Donatists coming up for Communion, let me know.

 

[sea_oat]

No. I was raised Protestant, but I don’t have any horror stories to share that I blame on Protestantism.

It’s uncharitable, and just as misguided as the many cradle Catholics who blame the Church for some bad experiences.

 

[Roy5]

Peter J, SpiritMeadow, JesusisGod, and sea oat

PeterJ. Some Anglo-Catholics may believe in transubstantiation, though it conflicts with Anglicanism’s 39 articles. I believe you’ll find that Lutheranism teaches consubstantiation, somewhat different. As far as Methodists go, I find it hard to believe that any believe in transubstantiation. Probably they all accept the real presence in that Christ is present at communion and always. I know a lot of Methodists and they vary quite a bit. It’s a ‘big tent’ denomination which doesn’t focus on strict doctrine but on righteous living. We used to say: take an Episcopalian and a Baptist, put them in a burlap bag and shake well, and they will come out as two Methodists. Of course, it’s hard to get the two into a burlap bag to begin with so no one has proven this.

**SpiritMeadow ** Thumbs up. I especially like to think that in heaven millions of people who died for their faith, among them early Christians, and then Lollards, Waldensians, Hussites, etc., etc., will join with the rest of us in the Hallelujah Chorus, Wasn’t Handel a Protestant? Probably a Lutheran.

JesusisGod Hm! If you think one of the doctrines of Protestantism is the Apocalypse, you need to investigate further. True, many of the evangelical and pentecostal persuasion may embrace that, but you will find it rare among such mainstream Protestants as Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, etc. Then again, I believe the Catholic mass states that Christ is coming again. But I presume you mean all the end-time fireworks that some Protestants embrace. What appeals to many Christians about Protestantism is that it is a big tent where a wide variety of beliefs are held. There isn’t a magisterium to keep the faithful in line - or try to. What appeals to many Christians about Catholicism is that there is one doctrine, even though millions of mass–attending Catholic rejects pieces of it.

sea oat Agreed.

Keep smiling. The immediate future may be scary, but the ultimate future is bright. Peace and Godspeed.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Hi Jane,

I’m sorry it has been a painful experience for your children. However, for one thing, I would never enroll my children at a school whose Church I feel to be exclusivist, intolerant, or out of line with my beliefs. Therefore, if I were in your situation, I would not have enrolled them at a Catholic school. In my town we have a very excellent Christian school that is run by the Dutch Reformed Church. Most folks that go there are blonde-haired, blue-eyed Dutch. They require you be a sola scriptura, evangelical, “Bible-Christian” and their communion isn’t open to Catholics. I wouldn’t even think of enrolling my three there even if it is an awesome school academically.

Regarding our “closed” communion, it is not because Catholics are exclusivist, nasty, narrow-minded folks seeking to keep Christians away, it is a much different reality. Catholics believe the Eucharist is the ultimate sign of UNITY in the Body of Christ. And for a person to come along who is not a confirmed Catholic who believes in women priests, gay marriages, shaky on abortion, doesn’t totally buy in the to the Papacy, and believes in sola scriptura, how could the Church tolerate such disunity being packaged as a lie? We have a confession of faith and a catechism, one belief, one Church, and the Eucharist is the highest expression of that belief. You should respect that and not view it as a learning opportunity to show your kids that they should be “lucky” not to be in a church of intolerance but rather respect our reasoning and rationale.

The Episcopal Church always boggled me in the fact that in my old parish we had a guy who was a Unitarian. He told me he didn’t buy into the Jesus is the Son of God business. Yet he went up and took communion every Sunday. The Rector and everyone knew it and yet he took of the Cup. There were renegade Catholics that didn’t like all those “pesky rules” we have who had left; they took the Cup. There were some women that had some really far-out beliefs theologically who took communion. A few ladies I talked to believed in cohabitation, abortion, homosexuality, etc. who took the cup.

I am the reverse of you. I was THRILLED to see a Church (Roman Catholic) that actually has standards and tries to live up the Faith of Christ and make sure its flock is of one mind, one heart…aligned to that of Christ the King.

Jesus is not a democracy. Obedience is our lot in life to be Christians. And there is nothing wrong with sharing one heart and one mind, unity in Christ. That’s what I will be teaching my kids.

If you look at the Early Church and can find me an example of orthodox Christians allowing heretics like Gnostics and Pelagianists and Donatists coming up for Communion, let me know.

Scott,
Here is the something about me. I don’t need to believe that my Church is full of perfect people or feel the need to continuesly point out the sins of others. I am not an all or nothing kind of person like you seem to think that I should be with where my children attend school. I may not agree with everything that is taught in religion class but the Christian charity that is demonstrated and taught is wonderful. As you know, my husband and I have always sent our children to private school and would not want it any other way. I understand that you don’t grasp this being a Public School Teacher, but we like having an (name removed by moderator)ut on our children’s education and we find that we have a little more control in the private schools. The area that we live at now has an Episcopal School, an hour away. Our Episcopal priest recommended the local Catholic School to us when I told him that we did not feel comfortable sending our children to the public schools. Scott, I am on the Outreach Committee at our Church and just the other day I voted to continue sending money to our local Catholic Charities. Two months ago, I voted at our Episcopal Church Women’s board meeting to continue to send money to Catholic Charities. I am not one to say that everything about the Catholic Church is out to lunch–that is not me. Why on earth should I pull my children out of a Catholic School that they are thriving in?

It is so easy for us to pick out the sins of others which we don’t share. It is much easier for me to comment on sins that I don’t share especially when I “think” those sins are worse then mine in God’s eyes. I do believe that when we recieve the Eucharist that we open our hearts and mind to God’s love and grace to change us. We have a lovely prayer that we kneel together and say after our Wednesday Healing Eucharist that stays with me.

"Almighty and eternal God, so draw our hearts to you, so guide our minds, so fill our imaginations, so control our wills, that we may be wholly yours, utterly dedicated unto you; and then use us, we pray you, as you will, and always to your glory and the welfare of your people; through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen. "

Scott, I am a sinner. The only thing that I can really say is that I know that God is with me and will not leave me, and that I should seek His forgiveness when I screw-up. I have to work through my own failings, they are too many to have time to point out the failings of others. I have no problem sharing that at my Church you will hear a lot more about grace and love than you will guilt, shame and fear. I would hope Scott that you would agree with me that God is loving us into a saving relationship with Him that is marked with healing, wholeness and reconciliation.

God Bless!
Your sister in Christ!

 

[Peter_J]

peter j, spiritmeadow, jesusisgod, and sea oat

peterj. Some anglo-catholics may believe in transubstantiation, though it conflicts with anglicanism’s 39 articles. I believe you’ll find that lutheranism teaches consubstantiation, somewhat different. As far as methodists go, i find it hard to believe that any believe in transubstantiation.

Hi roy,

I think you misunderstood what I was saying: there are many Protestants (many Anglicans and Lutherans, and a good number of Methodists) who would say “Yes, the host and wine become the actual body and blood of Christ.”

I realize that Transubstantiation is a Scholastic explanation of the Eucharist and is not common among Protestants (or among Eastern Orthodox for that matter).

Of course, it’s hard to get the two into a burlap bag to begin with so no one has proven this.

Don’t even get me started! I’m so tired of those burlap-bashing Episcopalians.

(Sorry. I know, it’s not funny.)

 

[Roy5]

PETER J - METHODISTS

 Hm! Hesitate to pursue this, but I have to take issue re the Methodists at least. I have them in my family circle and believe me they would never, never say that the bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Jesus. They would view that as a hold-over from the mystery religions, some of whom taught that to consume God was in one sense or another to assume God's strength, wisdom, etc. Maybe one Methodist believes that the elements become Christ's body and blood, but if so I have never met that one. 

 As for Lutherans, consubstantiation is to say that the spirit of Christ is in some miraculous and mystical way present in the elements - but not transubstantiation.

  Now, there probably are a few Anglo-Catholic Anglicans who accept transubstantiation in some fashion. The Anglican communion has had this quite unusual quality of having in its midst everybody from Unitarian types to Anglo-Catholics. It used to be that as long as you used the Book of Common Prayer the rest was secondary. The same-sex issue has ruffled things a lot, and many of us are watching to see how things work out. As you know, a number of Episcopal priests have become Roman Catholics, because of the gay question and the ordination of women in particular. In this community one Episcopal rector is a woman who formerly was a Roman Catholic. The issue seems to work both ways. She has stated (in the press) that her local parish has welcomed many former Catholics in recent years.  

   Happy Eastertide.

 

[CAS64]

I want to know if anyone out there had any bad stories from when they where protestant.

When I was 7-13 I had the fear that I was going to get left behind during the Apocalypse. I always had to be around my family and when we would get a bad T storm I would be scared that the trumpet was being blown and that this was it. We were always tormented with story’s of the End and also had to watch bad acting movies. It was amazing one film the Antichrist is a man another he is a program. (it was like tron on a bad acid trip) But I remember being petrified with fear of being left. Boy was I surprised when I read the Catholic views on the book of Revelation.

Hope to hear some stories

God Bless

EC

Sorry, I have nothing but good stories and fond experiences in my days as a Protestant. Sorry to ruin your fun.

 

[Peter_J]

Sorry, I have nothing but good stories and fond experiences in my days as a Protestant. Sorry to ruin your fun.

If you don’t have any anti-Protestant stories to share, that’s a sign that you’re still under their control.

:hypno:

 

[Pixie_Dust]

If you don’t have any anti-Protestant stories to share, that’s a sign that you’re still under their control.

:hypno:

 

[CAS64]

If you don’t have any anti-Protestant stories to share, that’s a sign that you’re still under their control.

:hypno:

As Christ would have it, so I will be. He has blessed my life richly and yes, I am 100% Protestant permanent.

 

[Peter_J]

• You don’t know what you’re saying. You’re under their control.
• What, they brainwashed you?
  (Estelle and Frank Costanza in Seinfeld episode “The Conversion”.)

 

[CAS64]

• You don’t know what you’re saying. You’re under their control.
• What, they brainwashed you?
  (Estelle and Frank Costanza in Seinfeld episode “The Conversion”.)

That’s a pretty uncharitable thing to say. I could make the same ascertion about the Roman church brainwashings it’s faithful.

 

[kalt]

Hi Jane,

I’m sorry it has been a painful experience for your children. However, for one thing, I would never enroll my children at a school whose Church I feel to be exclusivist, intolerant, or out of line with my beliefs. Therefore, if I were in your situation, I would not have enrolled them at a Catholic school. In my town we have a very excellent Christian school that is run by the Dutch Reformed Church. Most folks that go there are blonde-haired, blue-eyed Dutch. They require you be a sola scriptura, evangelical, “Bible-Christian” and their communion isn’t open to Catholics. I wouldn’t even think of enrolling my three there even if it is an awesome school academically.

We had one woman complain that things at her son’s (and my son’s) Catholic high school were “very Catholic”. Well, what did you expect?

Regarding our “closed” communion, it is not because Catholics are exclusivist, nasty, narrow-minded folks seeking to keep Christians away, it is a much different reality. Catholics believe the Eucharist is the ultimate sign of UNITY in the Body of Christ. And for a person to come along who is not a confirmed Catholic who believes in women priests, gay marriages, shaky on abortion, doesn’t totally buy in the to the Papacy, and believes in sola scriptura, how could the Church tolerate such disunity being packaged as a lie? We have a confession of faith and a catechism, one belief, one Church, and the Eucharist is the highest expression of that belief. You should respect that and not view it as a learning opportunity to show your kids that they should be “lucky” not to be in a church of intolerance but rather respect our reasoning and rationale.

And it’s not really true that other people (of any faith or none) are not invited to the table. The whole world is invited. Some will never accept the invitation because they disagree with the “dress code”. They prefer casual, when this is a “black tie” affair. Well, if you don’t like “black tie” (the real presence in the Eucharist/transubstantation), then you should feel confident in not accepting the invitation. This nonsense of blaming Catholics for what they believe, as if Catholics should change the dress code so those who don’t believe in it will come, is silly. Everyone is invited. If they wanted to come, they would. If they feel bad about not being able to come, they have only themselves to blame. The invitation is extended–it has been extended to all for 2 millenia. All they have to do is say, Yes.

The Episcopal Church always boggled me in the fact that in my old parish we had a guy who was a Unitarian. He told me he didn’t buy into the Jesus is the Son of God business. Yet he went up and took communion every Sunday. The Rector and everyone knew it and yet he took of the Cup. There were renegade Catholics that didn’t like all those “pesky rules” we have who had left; they took the Cup. There were some women that had some really far-out beliefs theologically who took communion. A few ladies I talked to believed in cohabitation, abortion, homosexuality, etc. who took the cup.

I am the reverse of you. I was THRILLED to see a Church (Roman Catholic) that actually has standards and tries to live up the Faith of Christ and make sure its flock is of one mind, one heart…aligned to that of Christ the King.

Jesus is not a democracy. Obedience is our lot in life to be Christians. And there is nothing wrong with sharing one heart and one mind, unity in Christ. That’s what I will be teaching my kids.

If you look at the Early Church and can find me an example of orthodox Christians allowing heretics like Gnostics and Pelagianists and Donatists coming up for Communion, let me know.

 

[kalt]

I’m not conversing on this any longer. It’s too hard since you continue to write within the quote box which makes it too hard to answer. You continue to claim I don’t know Catholic teachings yet never point out what it does teach, just that what I said is wrong. I have had a copy of the CCC since within a few days of its publishing in 1994. Mine is a well worn copy since I’ve read it cover to cover and used it repeatedly in classes and in research.

But as you say, I must be poorly catechized. Attaching, “you don’t know what the CC teachs” at the end of every paragraph is hardly convincing.

End of discussion.

2 of us have pointed out that you think the Church teaches that only it has truth. This is not what the Church teaches.

Read the posts above. We explain there what the Church actually teaches about truth and non-Catholic religions.

You also say that others aren’t invited to the table in a Catholic Church. This is not true. You are invited. So far you’ve refused to respond.

 

[Peter_J]

• You don’t know what you’re saying. You’re under their control.
• What, they brainwashed you?
  (Estelle and Frank Costanza in Seinfeld episode “The Conversion”.)

I take it you didn’t watch the show too much. Frank and Estelle weren’t exactly the ideal parents.

I’ve seen “The Conversion” episode (in which George Costanza becomes Latvian Orthodox because of his girlfriend) and I really don’t think that the writers intended it as an attack on Orthodoxy or religion in general.

 

[O.S.Luke]

PETER J - METHODISTS

 Hm! Hesitate to pursue this, but I have to take issue re the Methodists at least. I have them in my family circle and believe me they would never, never say that the bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Jesus. They would view that as a hold-over from the mystery religions, some of whom taught that to consume God was in one sense or another to assume God's strength, wisdom, etc. Maybe one Methodist believes that the elements become Christ's body and blood, but if so I have never met that one.

I’ve believed it, and was taught it, all of my life - and I am a life-long Methodist. I am far from the only Methodist that believes in the Real Presence - Wesley’s sermons were clear on the matter. So were the hymns of the Wesleys. And so was the last General Conference - our Magisterium - on the matter. So I couldn’t disagree more. I am sure there are more than a few Catholics who do not embrace transubstantiation - but that doesn’t invalidate what the Church officially believes.

As for Lutherans, consubstantiation is to say that the spirit of Christ is in some miraculous and mystical way present in the elements - but not transubstantiation.

As has been discussed on other threads, Lutherans do not embrace consubstantiation (another Thomistic term). They embrace the Real Presence, which is not to say that they embrace transubstantiation.

All folks who embrace transubstantiation as dogma believe in the Real Presence of Christ. But not all traditions who embrace the Real Presence accept the dogma of transubstantiation.

O+

 

[Peter_J]

All folks who embrace transubstantiation as dogma believe in the Real Presence of Christ. But not all traditions who embrace the Real Presence accept the dogma of transubstantiation.

True.

 

[SonofMonica]

I’ve believed it, and was taught it, all of my life - and I am a life-long Methodist. I am far from the only Methodist that believes in the Real Presence - Wesley’s sermons were clear on the matter. So were the hymns of the Wesleys. And so was the last General Conference - our Magisterium - on the matter. So I couldn’t disagree more. I am sure there are more than a few Catholics who do not embrace transubstantiation - but that doesn’t invalidate what the Church officially believes.

From UMC.org:

http://www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.2299859/k.13B7/Our_Christian_Roots.htm:

The Lord’s Supper (Communion, Eucharist)

* The Lord's Supper is a holy meal of bread and wine that symbolizes the body and blood of Christ.
* The Lord's Supper recalls the life, death and resurrection of Jesus and celebrates the unity of all the members of God's family.
* By sharing this meal, we give thanks for Christ's sacrifice and are nourished and empowered to go into the world in mission and ministry.
* We practice "open Communion," welcoming all who love Christ, repent of their sin, and seek to live in peace with one another.

 

[O.S.Luke]

From UMC.org:

That’s obviously not been updated since This Holy Mystery was adopted. UMCOM is always 10 years behind anyway. This Holy Mystery is the OFFICIAL statement:
This Holy Mystery Document::

Christ’s presence in the sacrament is a promise to the church and is not dependent upon recognition of this presence by individual members of the congregation. Holy Communion always offers grace. We are reminded of what God has done for us in the past, experience what God is doing now as we partake, and anticipate what God will do in the future work of salvation. “We await the final moment of grace, when Christ comes in victory at the end of the age to bring all who are in Christ into the glory of that victory” (By Water and the Spirit: A United Methodist Understanding of Baptism, in Book of Resolutions; page 816), and we join in feasting at the heavenly banquet table (Luke 22:14-18; Revelation 19:9).

The Christian church has struggled through the centuries to understand just how Christ is present in the Eucharist. Arguments and divisions have occurred over the matter. The Wesleyan tradition affirms the reality of Christ’s presence, although it does not claim to be able to explain it fully. John and Charles Wesley’s 166 Hymns on the Lord’s Supper are our richest resource for study in order to appreciate the Wesleyan understanding of the presence of Christ in the Eucharist. One of these hymns expresses well both the reality and the mystery: “O the Depth of Love Divine,” stanzas 1 and 4 (The United Methodist Hymnal, 627):

O the depth of love divine,
the unfathomable grace!
Who shall say how bread and wine
God into us conveys!
How the bread his flesh imparts,
how the wine transmits his blood,
fills his faithful people’s hearts
with all the life of God!

Sure and real is the grace,
the manner be unknown;
only meet us in thy ways
and perfect us in one.
Let us taste the heavenly powers,
Lord, we ask for nothing more.
Thine to bless, 'tis only ours
to wonder and adore.

• from This Holy Mystery, PART TWO: CHRIST IS HERE — EXPERIENCING THE MYSTERY - The Presence of Christ

 

[emeraldcoast]

That’s obviously not been updated since This Holy Mystery was adopted. UMCOM is always 10 years behind anyway. This Holy Mystery is the OFFICIAL statement:

Thank you for sharing that with us, O.S. Luke. This is the same thing that my Methodist friends have shared with me regarding Communion.

God Bless!