Does anyone know Canon Law well?

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I was wondering if there is anyone here who could help me with a Canon Law question? Please let me know and I could just post it here now.

There are actually two questions…
  1. In Canon Law it talks about an automatic excommunication for heresy. I dont understand, what exactly is meant here. If a person thought that something was a Church teaching and still decided they disagree with it, knowingly and with that intent, - did they commit heresy and are they excommunicated? the question here is… I was told by someone that Orthodox Sacraments don’t give grace, and I thought they do, and I held on to my point of view despite thinking that their view is probably the Church teaching. Later on I found out that the actual teaching is a bit different, maybe (I’m still not quite sure). But because of my intention, did I commit heresy? :confused: this was mostly in my mind btw, I didn’t really talk about it till after.
  2. In order to receive a penalty, like in Canon 1365, does the person have to know about the penalty at the time of the sin? what if they knew it’s against Church teachings and is sinful, but didn’t know about the specific canonical penalty?? would it still apply to them?
I hope someone here can help… 🤷 it’s kind of bothering me a lot. Thanks!
 
I was wondering if there is anyone here who could help me with a Canon Law question? Please let me know and I could just post it here now.

There are actually two questions…
  1. In Canon Law it talks about an automatic excommunication for heresy. I dont understand, what exactly is meant here. If a person thought that something was a Church teaching and still decided they disagree with it, knowingly and with that intent, - did they commit heresy and are they excommunicated? the question here is… I was told by someone that Orthodox Sacraments don’t give grace, and I thought they do, and I held on to my point of view despite thinking that their view is probably the Church teaching. Later on I found out that the actual teaching is a bit different, maybe (I’m still not quite sure). But because of my intention, did I commit heresy? :confused: this was mostly in my mind btw, I didn’t really talk about it till after.
  2. In order to receive a penalty, like in Canon 1365, does the person have to know about the penalty at the time of the sin? what if they knew it’s against Church teachings and is sinful, but didn’t know about the specific canonical penalty?? would it still apply to them?
I hope someone here can help… 🤷 it’s kind of bothering me a lot. Thanks!
Hi.

I’m not a canon lawyer (and I’ve always wanted to say that turn of phrase for myself in reality 🙂 ), but here’s my interpretation of Canon Law 1365 and related codes:
  1. The term of “heresy,” used at a time where almost everyone was Catholic in some areas, has a more specific audience now. To be a heretic, you have to have been raised and (at the point of the violation) been a practicing Catholic.
  2. Heresy is the willful corruption of Church teachings by those who profess to be Catholic.
Could many of us who hold to all that the Church believes but yet have personal disagreements about said teachings be heretics? No. The key is that a heretic* actively promulgates what teachings they do not appreciate in public and in the guise of being a Catholic with authority to teach a doctrinal change*.

Here’s a real world example. In 2008, former Speaker of the House and Representative Nancy Pelosi was heard on a national news program saying this about abortion and the definition of when life begins:
“I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the Church have not been able to make that definition.”
When getting a chance to correct her wording by the host of the show, who correctly noted the Church’s teaching that life begins at conception, she continued:
“I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the Church, this is an issue of controversy.”
Would this possibly be an example of heresy? Maybe. Ms. Pelosi professed to be an “ardent Catholic” and, in so doing, then attempted to redefine what is clearly dogmatic Church teaching under the guise of her position of political authority and beliefs.

Several months later, Ms. Pelosi visited Vatican City. The Holy See purposefully made her visit very low-key with no photographers. In a small meeting room, His Holiness Pope Benedict XIV met the Speaker and…*discussed *the Church’s teachings. While Ms. Pelosi made her own statement on her meeting with the pontiff, the Vatican made a statement as well that confirmed that she was effectively chastised for her statements in a way that only the Pope can and should do for a heretical proclamation or grave statement of error.

So, while Ms. Pelosi may have met the *criteria *for heresy, the Pope was able to make a firm correction (although the contents of that meeting other than in the statement remain private) without having to resort to measures such as excommunication (when heresy is committed and the person who committed it is not repentant of their actions).

You do not commit heresy by misunderstanding and misteaching Church beliefs. You become heretical only when you stick to those beliefs despite the Church making it crystal clear to you that you are on the wrong track.

Does this mean that heresy is an automatic excommunication (which is a corrective action to get you on track, not to attempt to condemn a person)? It depends on the act. Some very serious acts can incur what’s called a latae sententiae interdict, such as a Catholic getting an abortion. In this example, a meeting with a bishop or appointee and the Sacrament of Confession may resolve that situation and return the person to communion with the Church.

For more, do talk to your priest first if you feel that you have made a boo-boo. (I say boo-boo because we all sin, but the one who is on their way to piety recognizes their mistakes and owns up to them.)

You can also look up the books of canon lawyer and Catholic Answers Live guest Edward Peters for more help with these questions. His blog link is here.
 
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  1. In Canon Law it talks about an automatic excommunication for heresy. I dont understand, what exactly is meant here. If a person thought that something was a Church teaching and still decided they disagree with it, knowingly and with that intent, - did they commit heresy and are they excommunicated? the question here is… I was told by someone that Orthodox Sacraments don’t give grace, and I thought they do, and I held on to my point of view despite thinking that their view is probably the Church teaching. Later on I found out that the actual teaching is a bit different, maybe (I’m still not quite sure). But because of my intention, did I commit heresy? :confused: this was mostly in my mind btw, I didn’t really talk about it till after.
  2. In order to receive a penalty, like in Canon 1365, does the person have to know about the penalty at the time of the sin? what if they knew it’s against Church teachings and is sinful, but didn’t know about the specific canonical penalty?? would it still apply to them? …
Hello Monica4316,

This seems to be a recurring topic for you. Heresy is the obstinate denial or doubt of a truth that must be believed with divine and catholic faith (canon 751). These truths are those that have been declared to be such by the solemn magisterium of the Church (c. 750). For example, the contents of the Creed, the Assumption, Immaculate Conception, Papal Infallibility, etc… I don’t see how the topic you mention could be considered such a “truth.” I also don’t see how you were obstinately denying or doubting anything. Finally, it is only when someone makes their obstinate denial or doubt public that heresy can be committed (canon 1330). You are not a heretic.

Yes, in order to incur an automatic penalty, a person must be aware of the penalty (canon 1324.1.9, see also c. 1324.2). You are not excommunicated.

I hope this answers your questions.

Dan
 
Thank you for the replies,

Yes this is a reccuring issue for me because I really worry a lot about these things sometimes 😦 and unfortunately the more I think about it, the more worried I get, that’s why I ask so I could just get some information lol.;

what worries me about the heresy is that it WAS obstinate for a bit of time. I mean, I thought I knew the Church teaching and STILL decided to disagree with it. Later on I found out the Church teaching is a bit different. But my intention involved obstinacy 😦

Is it true though that to commit a heresy, the person needs to have committed an external action, like speaking about it to others? Because this was all in my thoughts… maybe that changes things?

thanks!
 
THANK YOU for finding me the reference about the penalty, - I finally found it and it’s the parts in bold 🙂 that helps A LOT with my second question 🙂 now I just have to figure out about the heresy lol. I’ll speak to a priest when I go to Confession as well, I’m not trying to figure this out alone and I do ask priests, but I go through a lot of anxiety over it unfortunately as well.

TITLE III: THOSE WHO ARE LIABLE TO PENAL SANCTIONS (Cann. 1321 - 1330)

Can. 1321 §1 No one can be punished for the commission of an external violation of a law or precept unless it is gravely imputable by reason of malice or of culpability.

§2 **A person who deliberately violated a law or precept is bound by the penalty prescribed in that law or precept. If, however, the violation was due to the omission of due diligence, the person is not punished unless the law or precept provides otherwise. **§3 Where there has been an external violation, imputability is presumed, unless it appears otherwise.

Can. 1322 Those who habitually lack the use of reason, even though they appeared sane when they violated a law or precept, are deemed incapable of committing an offence.

Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:

1° has not completed the sixteenth year of age;

2° was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance **[but I thought this is talking about something else: being ignorant of it being sinful, not being ignorant of it having a penalty]**3° acted under physical force, or under the impetus of a chanceoccurrence which the person could not foresee or if foreseen could not avoid;

4° acted under the compulsion of grave fear *, even if only relative, or by reason of necessity or grave inconvenience, unless, however, the act is intrinsically evil or tends to be harmful to souls;

5° acted, within the limits of due moderation, in lawful self-defence or defence of another against an unjust aggressor;

6° lacked the use of reason, without prejudice to the provisions of cann. 1324, §1, n. 2 and 1325;

7° thought, through no personal fault, that some one of the circumstances existed which are mentioned in nn. 4 or 5.

Can. 1324 §1 The perpretrator of a violation is not exempted from penalty, but the penalty prescribed in the law or precept must be diminished, or a penance substituted in its place, if the offence was committed by:

1° one who had only an imperfect use of reason;

2° one who was lacking the use of reason because of culpable drunkenness or other mental disturbance of a similar kind;

3° one who acted in the heat of passion which, while serious, nevertheless did not precede or hinder all mental deliberation and consent of the will, provided that the passion itself had not been deliberately stimulated or nourished

4° a minor who has completed the sixteenth year of age;

5° one who was compelled by grave fear, even if only relative, or byreason of necessity or grave inconvenience, if the act is intrinsically evil or tends to be harmful to souls;

6° one who acted in lawful self-defence or defence of another against an unjust aggressor, but did not observe due moderation;

7° one who acted against another person who was gravely and unjustly provocative;

8° one who erroneously, but culpably, thought that some one of the circumstances existed which are mentioned in Can. 1323, nn. 4 or 5;

**9° one who through no personal fault was unaware that a penalty was attached to the law or precept; **
10° one who acted without full imputability, provided it remained grave.

Okay so I wouldn’t say that I was ignorant of the penalty out of my own fault, because I never thought such a penalty might even exist. I thought you just needed to go to Confession. (I mean about Canon 1365… not about heresy). It says that the penalty could be lessened, so I guess I need to talk to a priest about that, I think in my diocese cause then he can talk to my bishop if necessary 🤷 I hope this gets finally solved soon and I need to make sure I never make the same mistake again. (in the case of my second question, I sinned against communicatio in sacris, a while ago… then I found out about the penalty a few weeks ago)*
 
One does not need an “external action” to commit the sin of heresy…

But if I think the Church teaches that Jesus is only divine. And I reject such obstinately…I have not committed “heresy” …no matter how obstinate I was…for the Church does not teach such…

I may have committed other sins…but not heresy.
 
thanks, that makes sense… 🙂

I did come across this canon though… do you think it means that heretical* thoughts *don’t incur excommunication? I didn’t actually talk about this to anyone, the only time I began talking about it is when I changed my mind and decided to examine the Church teaching, and asked if I was wrong/right.

canon 1330: “A delict which consists in a declaration or in another manifestation of will, doctrine, or knowledge must not be considered completed if no one perceives the declaration or manifestation.”
 
thanks, that makes sense… 🙂

I did come across this canon though… do you think it means that heretical* thoughts *don’t incur excommunication? I didn’t actually talk about this to anyone, the only time I began talking about it is when I changed my mind and decided to examine the Church teaching, and asked if I was wrong/right.

canon 1330: “A delict which consists in a declaration or in another manifestation of will, doctrine, or knowledge must not be considered completed if no one perceives the declaration or manifestation.”
To declare something, you must say or write it. Yes, I believe that is the correct interpretation.

Since I’m sure you’re not telepathic (and others in the Church aren’t as well), having thoughts that question Church teaching isn’t a problem, either. It’s always how you behave that matters. And in virtually every case, the Church is ready to help you resolve and rectify things for you.

Remember what the priest says during the doxology: May the Lord free us from every anxiety. Don’t overanalyze things here and be at peace. God bless.
 
One does not need an “external action” to commit the sin of heresy…
Right.

So, Monica4316, there is a difference between the sin and the delict (crime). In order to commit this crime (and any canonical crime), there needs to be an external action of some sort (see canons 1321 and 1330). Even though you might see these sorts of allegations, the Church does not act as some sort of “thought police.” Anyway, you have said there was no such manifestation. Therefore, you committed no crime and could not have incurred any penalty.

Dan
 
Thanks! 🙂 okay so one problem solved 👍 regarding the other one, I’ll mention it in Confession and see if ignorance applies to me.

God bless!
 
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