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johntkd
Guest
hold on a second!!!
I was NOT a Good Christian when i got married the first time, never went to church, wasnt a catholic and didnt live with her before hand…
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I was NOT a Good Christian when i got married the first time, never went to church, wasnt a catholic and didnt live with her before hand…
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thann
Guest
Here’s my rather long rant on this topic.
I am terribly disheartened about the state of my family’s next generation. In the past year we had three weddings, and will have two more in the next year. Each of these five children were reared in what I thought were devout Catholic homes (my siblings all married Catholics, and we were all raised in a very strict Catholic home).
Two of these people married in the Church, although both were cohabitating beforehand. At the rehearsal dinner for my niece, my SIL made a passing comment that my niece had gone to confession that day because the priest refused to marry them unless she did (the groom was not Catholic), and that she had to spend the night before the wedding someplace other than the house where she and her fiance were living. I said something like, “Good.” My sister (not the bride’s mother) looked at me like I had two heads, all disgusted that this bride was **made **to go to confession.
The two upcoming weddings will not be Catholic – not even religious. One is a simple in-home deal, and the other is a huge all-out extravaganza on the beach at Hotel Del Coronado in San Diego. The brides will wear white, even though both have lived with their intended for years.
And two other members of the next generation had children without the benefit of marriage at all – one niece has two children, each with a different father, and she’s never married.
Are these people uneducated young people? No. One is a doctor. One has a PhD in education. Two are engineers with masters degrees. One is a medical technologist. One is a millionaire who owns his own IT company. They all should know better!
I do not understand why my siblings are not completely mortified that their kids are/were shacking up. Whenever I say anything, they make comments like I am a goody two shoes, and I know they are all waiting for my son (age 16) to do something horrendous so they can say, “I told you so.”
Whew. Glad to get that off my chest!
I am terribly disheartened about the state of my family’s next generation. In the past year we had three weddings, and will have two more in the next year. Each of these five children were reared in what I thought were devout Catholic homes (my siblings all married Catholics, and we were all raised in a very strict Catholic home).
Two of these people married in the Church, although both were cohabitating beforehand. At the rehearsal dinner for my niece, my SIL made a passing comment that my niece had gone to confession that day because the priest refused to marry them unless she did (the groom was not Catholic), and that she had to spend the night before the wedding someplace other than the house where she and her fiance were living. I said something like, “Good.” My sister (not the bride’s mother) looked at me like I had two heads, all disgusted that this bride was **made **to go to confession.
The two upcoming weddings will not be Catholic – not even religious. One is a simple in-home deal, and the other is a huge all-out extravaganza on the beach at Hotel Del Coronado in San Diego. The brides will wear white, even though both have lived with their intended for years.
And two other members of the next generation had children without the benefit of marriage at all – one niece has two children, each with a different father, and she’s never married.
Are these people uneducated young people? No. One is a doctor. One has a PhD in education. Two are engineers with masters degrees. One is a medical technologist. One is a millionaire who owns his own IT company. They all should know better!
I do not understand why my siblings are not completely mortified that their kids are/were shacking up. Whenever I say anything, they make comments like I am a goody two shoes, and I know they are all waiting for my son (age 16) to do something horrendous so they can say, “I told you so.”
Whew. Glad to get that off my chest!
J
johntkd
Guest
I am going to c0omment on something I also feel it was disgusting to make someone go to confession, for one simple reason it sure cant be considered sacramental when forced, how sorry do you think a person is when they are being forced against thier will to do something, I would be mortified if this had happened to one of my children, it takes away from the whole wedding if this same priest is the one doing the ceremony. next he will making them consaumate in front of him , this guy should be booted out of the priesthood, you cannot force someone to seek forgiveness,
guess he wanted to hear juciy details I hope she didnt give him any. who knows what this guy will do with that info maybe write a book about it so everyone in the world knows… forced confession in a Catholic church now heres a new kick… I personally would have confessed only to dislikeing a priest had i been forced…
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Rach620
Guest
She wasn’t forced. She could have easily gotten married outside of the Church, by a justice of the peace or probably a minister in any number of protestant churches.
No one was forcing her to marry in the Catholic Church–that was her choice. If she chose to do that, then she has to ‘play by the rules,’ so to speak. Still her choice, though.
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jmcrae
Guest
Confession is required before receiving any Sacrament, isn’t it? With the exceptions of Baptism and Confession itself, of course.
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PatienceAndLove
Guest
Yeah. Priests have to go to Confession before taking Orders. Deacons as well. It would only make sense that if one expects to be married in the Church and to partake in that Sacrament that the Church would expect the person to uphold the need to be spiritually clean before receiving a Sacrament.
Question- When receiving the Sacrament of marriage, is the couple conferring the Sacrament upon each other? FH and I learned that at the Engagement (not Engaged) Encounter this weekend.
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jmcrae
Guest
Yes, that’s true. The reason is that Adam and Eve conferred the Sacrament upon each other, with God as their witness.
The priest is the Church’s official witness to the ceremony, but he is not conferring the Sacrament on the couple.
This is why every marriage is valid marriage (assuming it is …) - not just Catholic marriages. This is also why it is impossible to divorce and remarry.
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thann
Guest
My niece went to confession willingly. She knew she would have to, it was no surprise. It was my sister who made the comment about it being horrible that my niece “had” to go before the priest would allow them to marry.
To think that the priest was hoping to hear salacious details is unwarranted and uncharitable.
'thann
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Rach620
Guest
Yes, in marriage the bride and groom confer the sacrament on one another. This is why the marriage is not considered valid until it is consummated by the couple
I think it’s important to remember that the priest is instrumental when he confers the sacraments…I’m not sure it’s even the correct theological language to say he ‘performs’ them. It is the grace of God working through the priest, and this is readily apparent in Confession, where he is not really forgiving as himself but in persona Christi, and also in the fact that in emergencies, any adult Catholic who uses the Trinitarian formula can baptize another person.
I think it’s important to remember that the priest is instrumental when he confers the sacraments…I’m not sure it’s even the correct theological language to say he ‘performs’ them. It is the grace of God working through the priest, and this is readily apparent in Confession, where he is not really forgiving as himself but in persona Christi, and also in the fact that in emergencies, any adult Catholic who uses the Trinitarian formula can baptize another person.
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setter
Guest
You really need to think about what you are saying. I hope that you are not serious in your above comments. If you are, then you need a basic course in understanding the meaning of the sacrament of marriage – the CCC is a great starting reference.
You above highlighted comments betray the self-centered, self-serving mentality, i.e., adolescent level of spiritual maturity, that is epidemic amongst the current generation of uncatechized and lapsed Catholics. This priest is doing his job in generously working with such persons who are more external in faith.
Besides your outright disrespect, you sound so angry and spiteful. Remedy: Regular participation in the sacraments and seek to know and encounter Jesus Christ personally through daily personal prayer.
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chevalier
Guest
What thann’s example talks about doesn’t ring to me as coercion. Firstly, you need to be in the state of grace for sacraments. If you know that fornication is a sin and you still go on and do it, how much ignorance or compulsion can you claim? Some probably, sure, driving forces, pressure, addiction, force of habit, whatever. But can you absolutely exclude mortal sin? That would be a risky job.
I believe it’s a good thing when priests send people to confession in case of public sin, and that they require them to avoid temptation to sin as well (the night elsewhere).
I believe it’s a good thing when priests send people to confession in case of public sin, and that they require them to avoid temptation to sin as well (the night elsewhere).
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MrS
Guest
What a great idea… and this weekend, as I attend the wedding of a NON cohabitating couple… I will do just that.
Over the past 10 years I have had the priviledge of moderating a high school apologetics class. And of course the sacraments and their origins were among the topics.
We talked about marriage… and the only reason one should marry. That reason is to help you and your spouse to heaven… and all good things will flow from that committment. You do not marry for lust, nor for financial gain, nor because you have choosen the same profession etc,
It was difficult to admit that even my wife and I had not married for the “right” reason… to get to heaven… after all I was out of the Church all together at the time.
But now, when I see those high schoolers - some engaged, some dating - and I ask them… “If marriage is your calling… for what reason will you marry?”… I quickly get the answer “If God is calling me to marriage, it is His way of helping me to heaven. So I want to do it His way, for the eternl life of me and my spouse, and for the lives of any and all children He chooses me to have.”
Anything short of His plan is an insult to His plan.
.
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Fragile
Guest
I have both cohabited and been married, casual and “commited”, one night stands and “in a relationship”. The price of sexual sin is indeed high, after a while, you begin to loose a sence of being, you can feel the split within yourself, the futher the desent into this sin, the more you lose touch with your true self, the price is your soul!
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PatienceAndLove
Guest
So… I just found out that my best friend is going to start cohabitating with her boyfriend starting in the fall.
I am not sure how to approach her about it without sounding like a crazy uber-Catholic (even though I am)
I was not the way I am now, with the same views, when we met. And because she lives so far away, she has not been privy to seeing my spiritual views change.
She is a moderate Catholic, and I am not sure if she attends Mass regularly. I know she does for Christmas and Easter, and occasionally in-between, but not regularly.
Ideas, help and prayers?
I am not sure how to approach her about it without sounding like a crazy uber-Catholic (even though I am)
I was not the way I am now, with the same views, when we met. And because she lives so far away, she has not been privy to seeing my spiritual views change.
She is a moderate Catholic, and I am not sure if she attends Mass regularly. I know she does for Christmas and Easter, and occasionally in-between, but not regularly.
Ideas, help and prayers?
M
Marsha_Adams
Guest
Actually, it was Queen Victoria who set the fashion for wearing white wedding gowns. She wore one, and everyone emulated her and subsequently it was considered a sign of the bride’s purity. One wonders what it would have signified if Victoria had worn a striped dress or perhaps polka dots? Since a second marriage recognizes that the bride is not virginal, the customery white is not required.
Prior to Victoria’s wedding, a wide variety of colors were worn by brides. The common people (i.e. poor and middleclass folks) usually wore their best dress, or if they did have a dress made for the occasion it would subsequently become their best dress after the wedding - none of this $3,000.00+ for a dress to be worn once and hang in a closet for all eternity.
Recently I saw a bride wearing her wedding dress. It was white, but its neckline was a vee neck that went nearly to her waist, and body glue was necessary to maintain the illusion of modesty (or at least to prevent her being arrested for indecent exposure).
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Rach620
Guest
I’d say that before you take the ‘Catholic approach,’ you bring up the universal impact of living together and extramarital sex.
Is she doing this to test if they would be compatible for marriage? If so, there are plenty of resources you can find online which discuss how living together is the worst possible preparation for the lifelong commitment made in marriage.
If they are having sex (which I’m just going to assume is what happens when bf/gf move in together), perhaps share your experiences with chastity, PatienceAndLove? I know you’ve discussed your changing views on this forum before, but just being open with her about what you’ve found in living virtuously would be great for her. Your wedding should be a great example for her, too!
Final thing…I’m also assuming they’ll be contracepting. I can find some info I have sitting around my dorm, but basically contraception really messes up a woman’s body, and/especially her sex drive. Look up some of Janet Smith’s work if you can.
A big part of human sexuality relies on pheromones, odorless ‘scents’ (if that makes sense at all!) which people give off and which we are chemically attracted to in others. ABC affects a woman’s pheromones, and her sense of them…and someone did a study that showed that when a woman was on the pill, she was more likely to ‘pick’/be attracted to a ‘loser’ kind of guy, rather than a more attractive and successful one. (Not that these are the judgments we make relationships based upon, but anyway…) Not to mention that ABC basically kills natural female sex drive (it’s a stage of faux-pregnancy…and pregnant women don’t need to be overly amorous, so their hormones don’t tell them to be!) And we really have yet to see the long-term effects of using the pill from a young age–who knows what possible damage women are doing to their fertility!
That’s all I have for now. Good luck with your friend…I know how painful it is to see friends we love go down seriously wrong paths. She and you are in my prayers.
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PatienceAndLove
Guest
True.
I don’t believe that is the case. She goes to Georgetown, and apartments are VERY expensive in that area. Her current roommate is graduating, and she cannot afford rent on her own.
I should. She has seen what I have gone through (esp. having my daughter) and I know she would be open to listening to me. And it is possible that they will be living as brother and sister, as she has never told me about them having relations. She is a very strong willed young lady, and has very strong will power.If they are having sex (which I’m just going to assume is what happens when bf/gf move in together), perhaps share your experiences with chastity, PatienceAndLove? I know you’ve discussed your changing views on this forum before, but just being open with her about what you’ve found in living virtuously would be great for her. Your wedding should be a great example for her, too!
I know for a fact she does, as we used to have convos about the pill/patch/shot.
I should pass on my NFP info to her.
J
johntkd
Guest
ahh I see , so if you really want to get married in the Church, you go make an invalid confession and everything is OK…
also going to comment about some other posts that came after this one.
How I feel about this is irrelavent, I do think that telling a person you cannot get married in our church WITHOUT confession is making a mockery of the sacrament to begin with.
However by some of the posts that followed this post I see a new excuse for anullment coming, I didnt go to confession before marriage so therefore its not a valid marriage…
or even better I was told that in order to get married i had to go to confession, I really wanted to please my parents and friends by marrying in the Church and knew nobody would ever take our marriage seriously if we didnt so i went ahead and did the confession even though i didnt truely want to therefore being as some cohercement was used to get the marriage its not Valid…
ok now you see where this is going, thats one of the reaosns I have never heard this one before. its putting a cohercement on the marriage, and before you get all slap happy self rightious about how people shouldnt get married in this way, I already know and understand that, people shouldnt murder others, steal, live together etc but it happens in the “real” world,
thats my 2 cents on this issue, this woman has been given an excuse to use down the road for an anullment and the marriage haddnt even taken place yet…
John
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chevalier
Guest
Of course not. Can’t assume the confession is intended to be invalid.
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Daven_Sanchez
Guest
Two people living together is part of Marriage. If you don’t like the way your spouse lives, so much as to the extent that you would’nt marry them, then that couple is logically not ready for marriage or a relationship. But whithin the bounds of marriage; the couple has committed to one another for “better or worse and in sickness and in health”. Which is a huge life changing commitment within itself.-So to the fact that a couple is cohabitating is in a sense a product of immaturity and shows that one or both are uncommitted to the advancement of the relationship.-It’s all or nothing, I say.-They don’t call it the “Big Plunge” for nothing!
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