Does automatic excommunication makes you ineligible to receive the sacrament of reconciliation?

[SuS33]

I read this article on Catholic Say
catholicsay.com/administering-mercy-facilitating-forgiveness-does-not-downplay-sin/

Here is a quote

In the Latin church’s Code of Canon Law, Bishop Arrieta said, the offenses that carry automatic excommunication are: apostasy, heresy and schism; profanation of the Eucharist; physical violence against the pope; attempted absolution of an accomplice in sexual sin; attempted ordination of women; consecration of a bishop without papal approval; violating the secrecy of the sacrament of confession; recording the words of a confessor or penitent during confession; procuring, performing or actively assisting or pressuring a woman into having an abortion.

“All sins can be forgiven,” Bishop Arrieta said, but more serious sins are also considered crimes under canon law and carry penalties. In order to receive absolution, a person must be allowed to receive the sacraments, which he or she cannot do while under the penalty of excommunication.

Now this disturbs me cuz I’ve never heard of it before, although I never really left the church but I was against a lot of the teaching which means I committed heresy, and after the Lord opened my eyes to the truth I went to confession and have been for over a year. No priest ever told me that I have broken a law and that I’d need special permission before I can return to the sacraments. In fact I thought the word excommunication meant that the person is under a mortal sin not under actually penalty for breaking the law! Does that mean all my confessions in the past year are invalid?

In general, why aren’t we taught more about this since it is such a serious matter? And please do not say it’s in the Catechism, even the faithful Catholics that I know haven’t read the entire book, just passages of it, of course I understand it is important and every Catholic should read it along with the Bible, but it is not an easy thing to do. We just do what we can.

I’d appreciate your answers.

P.S. Please do not attack me in your replies, rather make them helpful and charitable.

 

[Duane1966]

I read this article on Catholic Say
catholicsay.com/administering-mercy-facilitating-forgiveness-does-not-downplay-sin/

Here is a quote

Now this disturbs me cuz I’ve never heard of it before, although I never really left the church but I was against a lot of the teaching which means I committed heresy, and after the Lord opened my eyes to the truth I went to confession and have been for over a year. No priest ever told me that I have broken a law and that I’d need special permission before I can return to the sacraments. In fact I thought the word excommunication meant that the person is under a mortal sin not under actually penalty for breaking the law! Does that mean all my confessions in the past year are invalid?

In general, why aren’t we taught more about this since it is such a serious matter? And please do not say it’s in the Catechism, even the faithful Catholics that I know haven’t read the entire book, just passages of it, of course I understand it is important and every Catholic should read it along with the Bible, but it is not an easy thing to do. We just do what we can.

I’d appreciate your answers.

P.S. Please do not attack me in your replies, rather make them helpful and charitable.

From New Advent, I have highlighted relevant parts. On Reserved Sins

A term used for sins whose absolution is not within the power of every confessor, but is reserved to himself by the superior of the confessor, or only specially granted to some other confessor by that superior. To reserve a case is then to refuse jurisdiction for the absolution of a certain sin. Christ gave power to the rulers of His Church to make such reservations: “Whose sins you shall retain they are retained” (John 20:23). The reservation of sins presupposes jurisdiction, and therefore the pope alone can make reservation for the whole Church; bishops can do the same for their diocese only, and certain regular prelates for their religious subjects. That a sin be reserved it must be mortal, external, and consummated. If a sin be reserved in one diocese, and a penitent, without the intention of evading the law, confess to a priest in another diocese where the sin is not reserved, the latter may absolve the reserved sin.(You should be able to easily find out if your sins were reserved in the diocese you made your confession) Cases are reserved either

merely on account of the sin itself, that is without censure, or
on account of the censure attached to it.

If a penitent be in danger of death, any priest can absolve him, both from reserved censures and reserved sins. In case of reserved censures, if he recover, he must later present himself to the one having special power for reserved censures, unless the case was simply reserved to the pope. As to reserved sins, he need not, as a general rule, present himself again after convalescence. In a case of urgent necessity, when it is not possible to have recourse to the proper superior, an ordinary priest may absolve a penitent, directly from unreserved sins and indirectly from episcopal reserved cases, but the penitent must afterwards apply to the person having power to absolve from the reservation. If there were also papal reservations, either simple or special, the absolution is direct, but in case of special reservations to the pope a relation must be made to the Holy See that its mandates on the subject may be obtained.** Ignorance of a censure prevents its being incurred, but moralists dispute whether ignorance of a reservation, with or without censure, excuses from its incurrence.** If it be a case with censure reserved to the pope, all agree that ignorance does excuse from it; if reserved to a bishop, it is controverted. Some moralists hold that ignorance excuses from all reservations, whether with or without censure. It is certain, however, that a bishop has authority to declare that ignorance of a reservation does not prevent its incurrence in his diocese.

One last thing from the article, did you know your sin involved automatic excommunication and do it anyway, because that is also relevant?

In an interview with Catholic News Service June 2, Bishop Arrieta said the pope’s mention of “reserved” sins refers to actions that can bring with them automatic excommunication, for example, abortion when the person is aware of the penalty and commits the sin anyway.

 

[ChibiViolet]

The heresy has to be deliberately made public in order for it to warrant excommunication. Also, you would have had to have known about the penalty.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I read this article on Catholic Say
catholicsay.com/administering-mercy-facilitating-forgiveness-does-not-downplay-sin/

Here is a quote

Now this disturbs me cuz I’ve never heard of it before, although I never really left the church but I was against a lot of the teaching which means I committed heresy, and after the Lord opened my eyes to the truth I went to confession and have been for over a year. No priest ever told me that I have broken a law and that I’d need special permission before I can return to the sacraments. In fact I thought the word excommunication meant that the person is under a mortal sin not under actually penalty for breaking the law! Does that mean all my confessions in the past year are invalid?

In general, why aren’t we taught more about this since it is such a serious matter? And please do not say it’s in the Catechism, even the faithful Catholics that I know haven’t read the entire book, just passages of it, of course I understand it is important and every Catholic should read it along with the Bible, but it is not an easy thing to do. We just do what we can.

I’d appreciate your answers.

P.S. Please do not attack me in your replies, rather make them helpful and charitable.

Assuming that you prepared yourself properly for confession and you had true sorry and repentinent for your sins and resolved not to commit them again, your confession was good. Priests have been given permission to forgive the kind of sins you mentioned above in most cases. If he hadn’t had the power he would have told you. So you are fine.

And yes, you need to read the Catechism, read a chapter a day.

Linus2nd

 

[SuS33]

No I never knew anything about the subject before. Actually I was raised as an illiterate Catholic when it came to the matters of faith and church. You see that I am still learning and have a lot to learn.

 

[SuS33]

The heresy has to be deliberately made public in order for it to warrant excommunication. Also, you would have had to have known about the penalty.

How public? Does family and friends count as public?
What about abortion? I know an old lady that aborted her baby 30 years ago and went to confission later, she truely regreted it but she has no idea about the law or any penalties.

 

[SuS33]

Assuming that you prepared yourself properly for confession and you had true sorry and repentinent for your sins and resolved not to commit them again, your confession was good. Priests have been given permission to forgive the kind of sins you mentioned above in most cases. If he hadn’t had the power he would have told you. So you are fine.

And yes, you need to read the Catechism, read a chapter a day.

Linus2nd

You are right. I only read passages that relates to whatever matter I study.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

You weren’t guilty of heresy nor were you excommunicated.

 

[SuS33]

You weren’t guilty of heresy nor were you excommunicated.

How would you know? Can you explain please!

 

[Pat_Payne]

but I was against a lot of the teaching which means I committed heresy,

One clarification: just because you were “against a lot of the teachings” does not defacto mean you were a heretic. You’d have to be against an infallibly defined teaching/dogma of the church to be there, IIRC, and know willingly it was a infallible/dogmatic teaching.

A certain Catholic Congresswoman (no names, please) can be pro-abortion and not be a heretic. She is still wrong, but not a heretic. If that same Congresswoman instead denied the Trinity or the Real Presence in the Eucharist or the Sacrament of Reconciliation, then she’d be a heretic.

A person can be against a lot of good and sound teachings of the Church, but not be formally a heretic.

 

[Gorgias]

What about abortion? I know an old lady that aborted her baby 30 years ago and went to confission later, she truely regreted it but she has no idea about the law or any penalties.

Procuring an abortion incurs an automatic excommunication. Lifting the excommunication is reserved to the bishop; but, in many dioceses, the bishop has delegated this ability to his priests. Therefore, in the confessional, the priest would be able to lift the excommunication first, and then absolve the person from their sins.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

How would you know? Can you explain please!

Relax. You and I aren’t important enough to be heretics. In any case, our sins are absolved by the Sacrament of Penance. Nobody who is repentant is ineligible for Confession.

 

[SuS33]

No I did not know anything about dogma or any ifalible teachings. I did however think that Jesus was not god but only the son of god and was not supportive of all the sacraments which I blame to my lack of Catholic education, still I did not go announce it to the whole world just to my family and some friends (whom now ironically I’m trying to get them to understand the sacraments and how important they are in our lives).

But I see your point. My confessor wouldn’t have forgiven me these sins if he did not have authority to do it. But I still think poeple should be more educated anout the subject. No one I know ever talked about such a thing, no books, not even the conferences I’ve been to. All they say is if you are truely sorry come back to confission, unless you absolutely left the church or you are not a Catholic then there are other steps you need to take.

Thank you all for your replys.

 

[SuS33]

Relax. You and I aren’t important enough to be heretics. In any case, our sins are absolved by the Sacrament of Penance. Nobody who is repentant is ineligible for Confession.

Thank you Paul.
Peace be with you.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Concur with others that you did not excommunicate yourself without knowing it, and that even if you were excommunicate, the priest hearing your confession had the faculties to lift the penalty or he should have told you otherwise. :twocents:

I read this article on Catholic Say
catholicsay.com/administering-mercy-facilitating-forgiveness-does-not-downplay-sin/

Here is a quote

In the Latin church’s Code of Canon Law, Bishop Arrieta said, the offenses that carry automatic excommunication are: apostasy, heresy and schism; profanation of the Eucharist; physical violence against the pope; attempted absolution of an accomplice in sexual sin; attempted ordination of women; consecration of a bishop without papal approval; violating the secrecy of the sacrament of confession; recording the words of a confessor or penitent during confession; procuring, performing or actively assisting or pressuring a woman into having an abortion.

**Aside: **Is this list accurate? Most I can concur, but:

• 
  *]*attempted ordination of women *In the cases I am familiar with, the ordinary has publicly announced that those participating in such a simulation place themselves outside the Church, so I should think it falls under the penalty for schism, noted previously.
  *]*violating the secrecy of the sacrament of confession; recording the words of a confessor or penitent during confession *Canon 1388 indicates a *latae sententiae *excommunication for the confessor who violates the seal, but others are to be “punished with a just penalty, not excluding excommunication” which to me implies any penalty would need be *ferendae sententiae *(ie imposed by the competent authority).
  
  Or maybe I am wrong, see disclaimer below?
  
  tee
  Disclaimer: I Am Not A Canon Lawyer

 

[SuS33]

Concur with others that you did not excommunicate yourself without knowing it, and that even if you were excommunicate, the priest hearing your confession had the faculties to lift the penalty or he should have told you otherwise. :twocents:

**Aside: **Is this list accurate? Most I can concur, but:

• 
  *]*attempted ordination of women *In the cases I am familiar with, the ordinary has publicly announced that those participating in such a simulation place themselves outside the Church, so I should think it falls under the penalty for schism, noted previously.
  *]*violating the secrecy of the sacrament of confession; recording the words of a confessor or penitent during confession *Canon 1388 indicates a *latae sententiae *excommunication for the confessor who violates the seal, but others are to be “punished with a just penalty, not excluding excommunication” which to me implies any penalty would need be *ferendae sententiae *(ie imposed by the competent authority).
  
  Or maybe I am wrong, see disclaimer below?
  
  tee
  Disclaimer: I Am Not A Canon Lawyer

• 
  Idk but does that mean I can’t talk about what happens with my own confession? Or just other poeple’s? Cuz I hear poeple talking about their confissions and what the priest told them all the time! Even in this forum!

 

[Gorgias]

Idk but does that mean I can’t talk about what happens with my own confession? Or just other poeple’s?

The ‘seal of the confessional’ binds the priest, not you. In addition, if you should overhear another person’s confession, you are bound not to repeat what you’ve heard.

 

[dans0622]

…

**Aside: **Is this list accurate? Most I can concur, but:

• 
  *]*attempted ordination of women *In the cases I am familiar with, the ordinary has publicly announced that those participating in such a simulation place themselves outside the Church, so I should think it falls under the penalty for schism, noted previously.
  *]*violating the secrecy of the sacrament of confession; recording the words of a confessor or penitent during confession *Canon 1388 indicates a *latae sententiae *excommunication for the confessor who violates the seal, but others are to be “punished with a just penalty, not excluding excommunication” which to me implies any penalty would need be *ferendae sententiae *(ie imposed by the competent authority).
  
  …

• 
  Hello,
  
  The list is accurate but perhaps not precise, with regard to the violation of the seal. The confessor is the only one who can be automatically excommunicated for violating it, as you point out. However, there is a separate penalty, not given in the Code of Canon Law, regarding the recording of what happens in a Confession. Whoever violates that law is automatically excommunicated (respecting all the usual qualifiers). See here: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19880923_scomunica-confessioni_en.html
  
  Frankly, many people should be more prudent about relating this or that statement made by a confessor, if they do so in a way that “divulges it through the means of social communication”…which sounds like it might include a public, internet, discussion forum…
  
  Regarding the attempted ordination of women, the bishop is accurate and precise. That is also a penalty not listed in the Code. See here: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20071219_attentata-ord-donna_en.html
  
  Dan

 

[dans0622]

Relax. You and I aren’t important enough to be heretics. In any case, our sins are absolved by the Sacrament of Penance. Nobody who is repentant is ineligible for Confession.

Hello,

There are lots of factors which may prevent the automatic penalty for schism from being incurred. “Not important enough” is not one of them.

That being said, your concluding statement is very true.

Dan

 

[Vico]

From New Advent, I have highlighted relevant parts. On Reserved Sins…

One last thing from the article, did you know your sin involved automatic excommunication and do it anyway, because that is also relevant?

In an interview with Catholic News Service June 2, Bishop Arrieta said the pope’s mention of “reserved” sins refers to actions that can bring with them automatic excommunication, for example, abortion when the person is aware of the penalty and commits the sin anyway.

One thing to keep in mind about reserved sins, is that the 1983 Latin canon law (CIC) did away with them, but they are present in the eastern Catholic canon las (CCEO) of 1992. Instead of reserved sins, the Latin Church now has canonical penalties (censures).

From TREATMENT OF CANONICAL PENALTIES, By James T. Bretzke, S.J., S.T.D., Boston College School of Theology & Ministry2 In order for an automatic censure to be applied, however, several conditions need to be satisfied. For example, the penitent must have known prior to the action itself that the sin carried with it the automatic penalty, the sin cannot have been performed as the result of fear or force, the penitent must have been over age 16, and so on.
A. Latae Sententiae (i.e., automatic) excommunications:

1. Apostasy, heresy, schism (CIC 1364)
2. Violation of the sacred species (CIC 1367; reserved to Holy See)
3. Physical attack on the pope (CIC 1370; reserved to Holy See)
4. Absolution of an accomplice in a sin against 6th commandment (CIC 1378; reserved to Holy See, except in danger of death: cf. CIC 977)
5. Unauthorized ordination of a bishop; this penalty is incurred by both the ordaining bishop and the bishop who is ordained (CIC 1382; reserved to Holy See)
6. Direct violation by a confessor of the seal of confession (CIC 1388; reserved to Holy See)
7. Procuring an abortion (CIC 1398)
8. Mechanically recording or divulging by a technical instrument in the communications media what was said by either a confessor or a penitent in a sacramental confession, whether performed by oneself or by another (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Urbis et Orbis, 23 September AAS 80 (1988): 1367).
N.B. Remission of the penalty of excommunication in nn. 2-6 is reserved to the Holy See.

B. Latae Sententiae interdicts: 1. Physical attack on a bishop (CIC 1370)
2. Pretended celebration of the Eucharist by a non-priest (CIC 1378)
3. Attempt to impart sacramental absolution or hear confession by one who cannot do so validly (CIC 1378)
4. False accusation (denunciation) of a priest of having committed the crime of solicitation in the confessional (CIC 1390)
5. Attempted marriage, even civil, by a religious in perpetual vows (CIC 1394)
N.B. If the offender is a cleric, then: the crimes in nn. 1 and 4 result in both automatic interdict and suspension. the crimes in nn. 2 and 3 result in automatic suspension rather than interdict

C. Latae Sententiae suspensions: 1. Cleric who attempts marriage, even merely a civil marriage (CIC 1394)
2. Cleric who is ordained by a bishop who does not have legitimate dimissorial letters (CIC 1383)
N.B. Only excommunications and interdicts can be remitted through the sacrament of reconciliation. Suspensions must be removed through the canonical channels (i.e., through one’s Ordinary or the Apostolic See).

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAAahUKEwiwiIK7sJbGAhXEZK0KHTYvAIg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww2.bc.edu%2Fjames-bretzke%2FPenaltiesCanonicalTreatment.pdf&ei=9TiBVfC5IMTJtQW23oDACA&usg=AFQjCNHPhbGTFy3swLQjG8unM3hbWlzfKw&bvm=bv.96041959,d.b2w&cad=rja

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