Does Being A Traditionalist Sometimes Make You Feel Isolated?

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Dempsey1919

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I think it is difficult to be a traditionalist in a parish that mainly celebrates the Ordinary Form. I attend a parish which celebrates the EF Mass once every Sunday. The other Masses are all OF Masses.

I am extremely grateful to my priest for celebrating the EF Mass every week. The people who attend this Mass come from miles around and most of them do not belong to the parish. The EF community isn’t really part of the parish but comes together once per week for the celebration of the EF. It often feels like we (traditionalists) do not belong to the parish.

I attend the EF almost exclusively but I occasionally go to the OF. When I see the sense of community amongst the people who attend the OF, I often wish that we in the traditionalist movement had the same opportunities to get to know one another.

Unfortunately, the traditionalists are treated as visitors to the parish, and not as members. The priest celebrates Mass for us, but none of the traditionalists get involved in parish activities. The traditionalists don’t seem to have any kind of friendships. I know the people who regularly attend the EF Mass at my parish but I am not friends with them in the same way that the people who attend the OF are. The OF group seems to be brought together by activities such as the parish fare and the various committees they have.

The traditionalists don’t have any roles on the parish committees and they aren’t invited to join any of the parish activities.

As a traditionalist, I often feel isolated when I attend Church. I don’t feel like the traditionalist group is made to feel part of the parish and I often wish that we were invited to join activities. Have you had similar experiences?

I often wish that the Bishop would erect a traditionalist parish within the diocese. I think this would bring the traditionalists together into one community and we could all get to know one another. Do you think it would be better if traditionalists had their own parishes?
 
Have you thought about talking with those in the OF about joint EF /OF activities? If its the same priest that does both he may have some helpful advice too. My parish is an Eastern Catholic Parish. I’m a Maronite Catachuman and my priest is a Tri Ritual Priest he does the Roman, maronite, and Bizantine Mass. If your priest can do both he may have some helpful advice for you. Ask him.
 
You need a few good trad women to organize special events for feast days throughout the year. 😉 Pot lucks where people sign up to bring various dishes, that sort of thing. A talent show, or a children’s event such as a pageant, a nice reception after FHC, party after the May crowning, etc.

Someone should supply coffee and donuts after TLM and the priest could invite everyone to attend during the announcements. Also, post it in the bulletin. Leave a donations box out at the coffee table in order to collect money for the following week’s coffee klatch. Most people are hungry after TLM, since they’ve been waiting several hours to eat and we get a lot of takers for that at here at my church. 🙂 If possible, have the coffee just before and then also during the Sunday school time when parents are more likely to stay because they’re waiting for their kids, anyway. I say start the coffee a little prior to Sunday school so the kids can have something to eat, too.

Good luck!
 
Dempsey1919 said:
Unfortunately, the traditionalists are treated as visitors to the parish, and not as members. The priest celebrates Mass for us, but none of the traditionalists get involved in parish activities.
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What is stopping them from getting involved in parish activities?

You say people are treated as visitors…but if they choose not to register in the parish and take part in other activities, then they are visitors.

If your parish is anything like mine, there are all sorts of groups and ministries that are always looking for people to get involved. As an RCIA director I would love it if someone said they’d like to help in some way with RCIA or be a sponsor. I’m sure the people leading other groups would say the same thing.
 
Is it possible that they are treated as visitors since for all practical purposes they are visitors. What I mean is I suspect many of them may attend the EF exclusively at your parish since their own parish doesn’t offer one. However, they may travel so far that participating in parish activities at the EF parish is nearly impossible due to time and travel constraints during the week all the while they ignore their OF parish that they live in for one reason or another.

I would think you could make a lot of headway if you could get some of the regular attendees at the OF masses to come to the EF. Maybe they could get some of the more local members of the parish to join the groups offered at the parish. I don’t think anybody wants to see the OF and EF mass groups effectively cut off from one another and make it seem like they are somehow in competition and not part of the same parish or community.

ChadS
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I attend a parish which celebrates the EF Mass once every Sunday. The other Masses are all OF Masses.

I am extremely grateful to my priest for celebrating the EF Mass every week. The people who attend this Mass come from miles around and most of them do not belong to the parish.
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Just an academic question: is the EF offered at an “odd hour” or is it part of the regular schedule?
 
Is it possible that they are treated as visitors since for all practical purposes they are visitors. What I mean is I suspect many of them may attend the EF exclusively at your parish since their own parish doesn’t offer one. However, they may travel so far that participating in parish activities at the EF parish is nearly impossible due to time and travel constraints during the week all the while they ignore their OF parish that they live in for one reason or another.
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This is true. All of the people I know (including myself) who attend the EF travel from other parishes. We do not attend our local parishes because they do not meet our spiritual needs. Thankfully, we have several options for the EF Mass at different churches in our diocese. The traditionalist Catholics have to move from church to church in order to attend the EF Mass. The fact that we have to travel around and visit different churches for the EF Mass makes it very hard to meet other traditionalist Catholics. I often wish that my Bishop would invite the FSSP and create a parish dedicated to the celebration of the EF Sacraments within my diocese. However, I don’t think this will ever happen.
 
Just an academic question: is the EF offered at an “odd hour” or is it part of the regular schedule?
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It is celebrated every Sunday at 11:30 by a variety of priests. It does not have a regular celebrant; the priest changes every week.
 
No , because I go to a Church that is strictly Traditional. It took moving from San Diego to Omaha to accomplish this however , so i do feel your pain.

pax
 
I am very grateful that my priest is provides the EF Mass every week. I consider myself very lucky to have the opportunity to attend this Mass.

However, I wish I had the opportunity to attend a traditionalist parish so that I could meet other Catholics with the same preferences as myself. The EF Mass strengthens my faith and greatly enriches my prayer life and I wish I had the option to attend daily EF Mass.

All traditionalist Catholics would love the opportunity to attend an FSSP parish and I wish these were more widely available. I think many traditionalists feel isolated because of the fact that they have to visit many different parishes to find EF Masses. It would be great if we could have a parish of our own where we could receive the EF Sacraments and gain some of the fellowship that all OF Catholics have.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I am very grateful that my priest is provides the EF Mass every week. I consider myself very lucky to have the opportunity to attend this Mass.

However, I wish I had the opportunity to attend a traditionalist parish so that I could meet other Catholics with the same preferences as myself. The EF Mass strengthens my faith and greatly enriches my prayer life and I wish I had the option to attend daily EF Mass.

All traditionalist Catholics would love the opportunity to attend an FSSP parish and I wish these were more widely available. I think many traditionalists feel isolated because of the fact that they have to visit many different parishes to find EF Masses. It would be great if we could have a parish of our own where we could receive the EF Sacraments and gain some of the fellowship that all OF Catholics have.
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Malleus: My Wife and I petitioned a Rosary Novena for guidance and asked Our Blessed Mother to lead us to Her Divine Son and on the 9th day we found a Tridentine Latin Mass. But finding a Catholic School for Our Children proved more difficult. That is why we moved to Omaha. We have both the Mass and Sacraments but in addition a Catholic School. I agree with you - it is a blessing and sadly not everyone has access. It is a difficult thing.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I think it is difficult to be a traditionalist in a parish that mainly celebrates the Ordinary Form. I attend a parish which celebrates the EF Mass once every Sunday. The other Masses are all OF Masses.

I am extremely grateful to my priest for celebrating the EF Mass every week. The people who attend this Mass come from miles around and most of them do not belong to the parish. The EF community isn’t really part of the parish but comes together once per week for the celebration of the EF. It often feels like we (traditionalists) do not belong to the parish.

I attend the EF almost exclusively but I occasionally go to the OF. When I see the sense of community amongst the people who attend the OF, I often wish that we in the traditionalist movement had the same opportunities to get to know one another.

Unfortunately, the traditionalists are treated as visitors to the parish, and not as members. The priest celebrates Mass for us, but none of the traditionalists get involved in parish activities. The traditionalists don’t seem to have any kind of friendships. I know the people who regularly attend the EF Mass at my parish but I am not friends with them in the same way that the people who attend the OF are. The OF group seems to be brought together by activities such as the parish fare and the various committees they have.

The traditionalists don’t have any roles on the parish committees and they aren’t invited to join any of the parish activities.

As a traditionalist, I often feel isolated when I attend Church. I don’t feel like the traditionalist group is made to feel part of the parish and I often wish that we were invited to join activities. Have you had similar experiences?

I often wish that the Bishop would erect a traditionalist parish within the diocese. I think this would bring the traditionalists together into one community and we could all get to know one another. Do you think it would be better if traditionalists had their own parishes?
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To a great degree I do.
 
No. I do not feel isolated. I will say, however, that I am more tolerant of them than they of me. Isn’t that ironic?
 
I’ve attended two parishes that celebrated both the EF and OF. Typically the situation was just as you described though, at the second parish, the congregation that attended the TLM was a bit larger and more local so they held a few fundraising activities and had a men’s traditional discussion night, etc using parish facilities.

However, I think the big issue that often occurs in parishes with “two” separate congregations is that the regular OF parishioners are, at best, unfamiliar with the traditional practices and, at worst, hostile towards them. This can create a situation where one group feels unwelcome. Also, some traditional families may shy away from the purely OF-arranged activities as they worry that their children may be exposed by some well-intentioned but not traditional influences from the other members. There are a variety of factors, but it does mean that these situations are often difficult.

The best solution, obviously, is a dedicated traditional parish but as this is often impossible, working with those that attend the TLM with you to structure some activities seems to be the next best solution. Perhaps people will be unwilling at first but you never know! Perhaps there are others that feel the same way but haven’t spoken up yet about it.
 
I think either way has serious difficulties.

I am in a paralell situation, in an Anglican context. There are also two types of service here - the traditional one, which is like the EF but in English, and the contemporary liturgy wich is like the OF. The music tends also to match the dominant type of liturgy in the church.

At my local parish, they are contemporary in outlook, and that is the liturgy used most of the time. Once a month they use the traditional form, but it is really rather adulterated in my view. THey do have an 8am traditional service, with no music, or Sunday School. Mostly older people attend.

This is not a nice situation, because the 8am people really tend to feel separated from the life of the parish. They do not meet many of the 10am people, they don’t get to go to Coffee Hour. It isn’t very practical for families. And it creates a kind of gheto in the parish, and a division with bad feelings in the parish.

One can also travel a distance to a traditional church, with only the traditional liturgy, rather better music, and so on. And yes, the fellowship is far better then. But then becoming involved in parish activities is difficult, one lives far away from other parish members, and the community the church is located in is not the one the parishioners are invested in economically or emotionally. This can cause a kind of separation between the church community and the local community which is not always healthy. And burning all that gas regularly is expensive and environmentally unfriendly. Some people may not be able to travel, so they will then be without an option.

In both cases, there is a danger that people are choosing to be around others who see things and appreciate the same things they do. This is natural, but also rather undermines the natural community we find ourselves in. There are really few things better for us than to kneel for the Eucharist next to our neighbour who sees and appreciates entirely different things than we do, and perhaps even enjoys monster truck shows or other strange things.

So, I do not know what the answer is. In my case, I attended the local church, but at the contemporary service because I have a young family. After a year I found myself feeling pretty depressed about my religion, and I ended up traveling to the traditional parish. I am now moving much closer to it, and that was a consideration in the decision to move. But if the local parish had tried harder to integrate both types of service, say by having each twice a month and doing it in a way that was really true to the liturgy, I would likely have been able to carry on.
 
Your situation resonates with me. But I go to the EF for precisely those reasons - I love going to a church and being totally unknown.

I think you will continue to have a problem in that regard until you get a personal parish established.
 
Being a Traditionalist in a very left-wing diocese makes me feel isolated every day of the week, month, and year. My parish has one EF Sunday Mass, EF holy day Masses, and special Wednesday and Saturday noontime EF Masses (the latter only in Lent). There is no other regular EF Mass in the entire (large) diocese and none other would be allowed–Summorum Pontificum is literally and figuratively a dead letter here.

Worse, my parish has absolutely no activities outside of Mass. I’ve offered to help organize some simple offerings but have been rebuffed by the priest (who is extremely aged) and the entrenched old-guard laity. I know only three or four people in the parish, but they (like everyone) scurry away after Mass. The Mass-goers at the one Sunday English-language OF Mass are mostly visitors (it’s not a territorial parish and is in a slightly creepy downtown area) and the only other Mass is in a moderately obscure eastern European language.

I don’t have a single local Catholic friend, even after living here for four years.

There are three parishes within walking distance of my residence: one features over half the congregation praying to ‘Our Father and mother in heaven’, another features anti-papal screeds in its bulletin and a ‘womynpriest’ on its retreat schedule, while the last has a pastor who insists that non-Catholics receive Holy Communion (and himself partakes proudly of ‘communion’ at local Protestant congregations.).

And as a single person, I don’t have a ‘domestic church’ to pray with.
 
I didn’t think I’d get as many replies about this. I wonder if the Bishops’ know that there are many Catholics who feel quite isolated in their parishes?

Some people may wonder why traditional Catholics don’t just get involved with activities centred around the OF community? I’ve often thought about doing this but decided that it wasn’t for me.

As a traditional Catholic, I have found that I have a different attitude towards the faith than typical OF Catholics. We don’t seem to be on the same wave-length. The Traditional Mass seems to foster a different kind of mindset than the OF Mass. Generally, the EF Catholics are very orthodox and strict in their liturgical attitudes. On the other hand, the OF Catholics I have met seem to disagree with certain doctrines of the Church, and favour a less structured approach to liturgy. We are all Catholics, but we are very different in many ways. The differences between us often makes it difficult for us to integrate together.

At times, it feels as if traditional Catholics and OF Catholics are as different as chalk and cheese. The Mass unites Catholics together; but it is difficult to feel united with people who attend a different form of the Mass. The very fact that we worship at different forms of Mass separates us from each other. Traditionalists have certain reasons for preferring the EF Mass over the OF Mass, and I doubt that most OF Catholics would understand this. Most traditionalist Catholics prefer to confess their sins in a confessional booth, and this option is sometimes frowned upon in parishes, which mainly celebrate the OF. Traditionalist Catholics have needs that are often not met in OF parishes. We just have to make do and hope that things will change in the future.

It seems that the most obvious solution would be for the Bishops to establish parishes dedicated to the offering of Sacraments according to the Extraordinary Form. Do you agree? We need to accept the fact that there are differences between OF Catholics and EF Catholics, and that it would be difficult for any pastor to cater to both these groups in a single parish. I think it would be better for EF Catholics and OF Catholics to have their own parishes. We are all Roman rite Catholics and we are all in communion with each other; but it is obvious that we have many differences.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I .

Unfortunately, the traditionalists are treated as visitors to the parish, and not as members. The priest celebrates Mass for us, but none of the traditionalists get involved in parish activities. The traditionalists don’t seem to have any kind of friendships. I know the people who regularly attend the EF Mass at my parish but I am not friends with them in the same way that the people who attend the OF are. The OF group seems to be brought together by activities such as the parish fare and the various committees they have.

The traditionalists don’t have any roles on the parish committees and they aren’t invited to join any of the parish activities.

?
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as you very wisely note, just because someone comes from miles away, out of their own parish, to worship with you does not make them a parishioner, and your perception is also correct that being an active, involved parishioner begins at Mass but does not end there. How very nice to see however that you report these visitors are made welcome. No as a traditionalist I do not feel isolated because in the 40+ years when the Latin Mass, (and decent liturgical music btw) have not been available to me, or only rarely, I worship in my parish in the Mass provided by the universal Church and give to my parish in they way I can, financially when that is possible, but always through time and talent.

Involvement in a parish stems from a spirituality of stewardship and the grace for it comes from Mass which of course is the source and summit of our life as a parish.

If you feel isolated in your own parish, adopt stewardship spirituality and start giving back. You are never going to connect with others who feel as you do as long as you stay in your self-imposed shell. If you are blessed to find a parish that offers good liturgy, register there and give back to them, become involved, as if the Latin Mass is not supported and the pastor no longer discerns a desire for it, it may be dropped.

Above all, since you are likely to be well formed in the faith, make your contribution in the area of catechetics. If traditionalists are not numbered among those who hand on the faith, who is even going to keep the memory of these things alive?

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The Traditional Mass seems to foster a different kind of mindset than the OF Mass. Generally, the EF Catholics are very orthodox and strict in their liturgical attitudes. On the other hand, the OF Catholics I have met seem to disagree with certain doctrines of the Church, and favour a less structured approach to liturgy.
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this generalization offered by Demsey is IMO completely uncalled for and not borne out by facts. Do you realize the only reason you have the EF available is that enough people who have worshipped in the OF for years because that is what the Church in her wisdom has given us, remembered and asked for the EF? There is a dichotomy in believe and practice among Catholics, but the line is not drawn based on what Mass you attend or even what parish you belong to, but along the same old lines–obedience and dissidence.

One parish nearby who has been notorious (stories made the national news) for dissidence among some of the lay leadership has done a complete turn around, not only under a new pastor, but because good lay people, many of them in a traditionalist mindset, some of whom have been worshipping at the only Latin Mass available but never stopped also attending their own parish, have remained active througout all the troubled years, have been a voice of right reason, have provided solid catechesis, and now are restoring traditional devotions. Because they maintained through the years Legion of Mary and so forth, and remained rather than moving on, they are in position to work for change and restoration in this parish. They have literally done a 180 in the last 5 years and you will not find a more observant truly Catholic parish anywhere.

If they had been content with just attending the Latin Mass in the next town and never contributing to their own parish, this renewal would very likely not have been possible, or would have taken much longer, and the healing this parish has experienced would also have been delayed.
 
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