Does being an environmentalist amount to subscribing to neopagan or pantheist beliefs?

[lynnvinc]

I’ve been on several threads here, and I keep finding claims that environmentalism amounts to paganism, neopaganism, or pantheism.

Even Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have warned against slipping into such beliefs in their general statements regarding the environmental and climate change, though these statements are primarily about our need to address environmental harms. Their concerns about neopaganism seem to be more side issues or caveats in the line of “and don’t go to the other extreme either.” Perhaps someone has been bending their ear about an environmentalist/neopaganism threat, which is not really a big problem…or maybe not.

I’ve been an environmentalist for over 50 years and have never really met any environmentalists who are neopagan or pantheists, so I am not sure what all the talk is about. Are the holy fathers and folks here referring perhaps to some theologians who may have slipped out of the bounds of Catholic belief (if so, who and what were the issues). Or are they referring to regular laypersons who are striving to reduce their environmental harms and feel the way to do so is through neopaganism?

Or are they confusing environmentalists’ use of figurative speech, as when they say, “Save Mother Earth,” for an actual belief that the earth is a goddess with an anthropomorphic personality and spiritual forces, as in showing her anger by sending storms, etc. I don’t really know any environmentalist who believes that type of thing.

I did meet an ex-Catholic woman once who used some Native American symbolism (like water, wind, fire, and bird feathers) in some earth healing ritual – but I think her main gripe was a feminist one, with the Church not allowing women to be priests or something. Anyway she gave me the willies, so I stayed away from her. And that was only ONE person out of the many hundreds I know who are environmentmentals, and she didn’t even really appear to be into environmental solutions the way all my many many other environmental friends have been.

Then I have had some 3 or 4 college students over the past 3 decades who have claimed to be witches, neopagans, or pagans…but they didn’t appear to be environmentalists (I think one may have put a hex on me ). Rather they seemed to believe that spiritual forces of nature can help them, but not that they should be helping reduce environmental problems.

So what goes?

 

[HerrZJA]

I think this is a bit of a false precept. I’m a catholic, and an environmentalist. There’s no disconnect between the two. In fact, there’s little interaction between the two ideas.

 

[Goldrock]

Taking care of the environment and worshipping it are two different things…

 

[SonCatcher]

I don’t see any conflict between caring for the environment and Catholic teaching. Indeed, Catholicism to me demands responsible care for my surroundings.

Worshiping the environment, naturally, is a no-no but I don’t think that environmentalism per se does this.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I think it’s a matter of motivation and degree. I have not met many environmentalists who consider themselves pagan or pantheist, but I have met a few college guys whose ways of justifying looking after the environment seem to have pantheistic leanings. (A tendency to think of the planet as an entity with rights which occasionally trump the rights of humans, as opposed to a created object which we should treat with respect that may occasionally prevent us from doing whatever we want.) See: Avatar.

But by no means are all or most (or even necessarily a significant number) of environmentalists this way. A few I have met seem to be, but that’s about all I know. I don’t consider myself an environmentalist, but recognize, of course, the importance of our planet and not destroying it.

 

[lynnvinc]

Thanks for all your replies so far. Restores my faith in my fellow Catholics.

I guess I’ve been jaded by so much “pagan” talk among anti-environmentalist & climate change denialist Catholics. It’s like if you screw in a CFL bulb you’ll turn into a witch, or something.

 

[adrift]

My answer wasn’t on your list which is a simple no. I am an environmentalist. I am a Catholic.

 

[Ghosty]

I am not an environmentalist, and I tend to disagree with especially staunch ones. That being said I’ve never met a strong environmentalist who was a neopagan, and I live in the Pacific Northwest where there are plenty of both. Most environmentalists I’ve known are actually quite secular with very little in the way of spiritual belief.

Peace and God bless!

 

[followingtheway]

I believe in protecting the environment. And I subscribe to Roman Catholic and Trinitarian Monotheistic beliefs!

 

[SonCatcher]

Thanks for all your replies so far. Restores my faith in my fellow Catholics.

I guess I’ve been jaded by so much “pagan” talk among anti-environmentalist & climate change denialist Catholics. It’s like if you screw in a CFL bulb you’ll turn into a witch, or something.

I’ve got CFLs all over my house. Somehow I don’t see myself like this:
http://bestsmileys.com/halloween3/1.gif

 

[Dorothy]

Taking care of the environment and worshipping it are two different things…

That’s it in a nutshell! We are to be good stewards of God’s gifts, and not go off the deep end by putting birds before people, etc.

 

[adrift]

That’s it in a nutshell! We are to be good stewards of God’s gifts, and not go off the deep end by putting birds before people, etc.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

What’s wrong with protecting God’s creation?

 

[puzzleannie]

I know a lot of environmentalists and have never met one or read the work of any who is a neopaganist or whatever.

No there is no correlation, unless somebody is actually worshiping the planet as a god.

 

[joshrp]

I’ve been on several threads here, and I keep finding claims that environmentalism amounts to paganism, neopaganism, or pantheism.

Even Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have warned against slipping into such beliefs in their general statements regarding the environmental and climate change, though these statements are primarily about our need to address environmental harms. Their concerns about neopaganism seem to be more side issues or caveats in the line of “and don’t go to the other extreme either.” Perhaps someone has been bending their ear about an environmentalist/neopaganism threat, which is not really a big problem…or maybe not.

I’ve been an environmentalist for over 50 years and have never really met any environmentalists who are neopagan or pantheists, so I am not sure what all the talk is about. Are the holy fathers and folks here referring perhaps to some theologians who may have slipped out of the bounds of Catholic belief (if so, who and what were the issues). Or are they referring to regular laypersons who are striving to reduce their environmental harms and feel the way to do so is through neopaganism?

Or are they confusing environmentalists’ use of figurative speech, as when they say, “Save Mother Earth,” for an actual belief that the earth is a goddess with an anthropomorphic personality and spiritual forces, as in showing her anger by sending storms, etc. I don’t really know any environmentalist who believes that type of thing.

I did meet an ex-Catholic woman once who used some Native American symbolism (like water, wind, fire, and bird feathers) in some earth healing ritual – but I think her main gripe was a feminist one, with the Church not allowing women to be priests or something. Anyway she gave me the willies, so I stayed away from her. And that was only ONE person out of the many hundreds I know who are environmentmentals, and she didn’t even really appear to be into environmental solutions the way all my many many other environmental friends have been.

Then I have had some 3 or 4 college students over the past 3 decades who have claimed to be witches, neopagans, or pagans…but they didn’t appear to be environmentalists (I think one may have put a hex on me ). Rather they seemed to believe that spiritual forces of nature can help them, but not that they should be helping reduce environmental problems.

So what goes?

A lot of environmentalists have a conception of man and his relationship to God that is inconsistent with the proclamation in the first chapter of Genesis that man and woman are created both in the image and likeness of God the Creator. They do not accept the idea that man is a creative being, endowed with a creative and reasoning mind just as God their Creator is. What most environmentalist believe is that man is no better than a talking beast. They hate truthful science and the notion that knowable scientific truth exists. They expouse the belief that technologies like nuclear power should not be allowed, just as the Greek pagan “God” Zeus tortured Prometheus for giving to man knowledge of the use of fire. Whether an individual environmentalist is aware of it or not, they are worshipping a conception of God and his relationship to man that is consistent with worship of the Greek “god” Zeus.

 

[lynnvinc]

A lot of environmentalists have a conception of man and his relationship to God that is inconsistent with the proclamation in the first chapter of Genesis that man and woman are created both in the image and likeness of God the Creator. They do not accept the idea that man is a creative being, endowed with a creative and reasoning mind just as God their Creator is. What most environmentalist believe is that man is no better than a talking beast. They hate truthful science and the notion that knowable scientific truth exists. They expouse the belief that technologies like nuclear power should not be allowed, just as the Greek pagan “God” Zeus tortured Prometheus for giving to man knowledge of the use of fire. Whether an individual environmentalist is aware of it or not, they are worshipping a conception of God and his relationship to man that is consistent with worship of the Greek “god” Zeus.

Why is it “most environmentalists”? If all Christians and all Catholics were to do what is morally required of them – reducing their environmental harms to people and the rest of God’s creation – then we would be in the majority of environmentalists, not the pagans.

Is it a criticism of their religious beliefs (these “most environmentalists”)? They may be non-Christian, they may be Hindu, Buddhist, or atheist. Or is it a criticism of their environmentalism?

There’s a beautiful video re the earth being harmed and environmentalists being killed (for their environmentalism, not their religions) - youtube.com/watch?v=nGeXdv-uPaw&feature=youtu.be

It is made by a Hindu Indian. It borders on pantheism or animism, but since it is a Hindu who made the video, I’m thinking that probably came from his belief system (they do believe earth is a goddess…Bhumidevi… and also that it helps to pray to the education goddess, Sarawati, before exams, or to Lakshmi for wealth, etc). So I can’t really critique him or his video, but I could perhaps try and convert him to Christianity. And the best way I know to do that is for myself to be a good and humble person, to draw him and others by my goodness (hope they don’t see my badness at home ), including being a good environmentalist by striving to reduce my environmental harm to people and God’s other creatures.

It would be great if we could have some Catholic environmental video as beautiful as that one, drawing others to our Church and our goodness, along the lines of youtube.com/watch?v=CZZFO9F8FWU

 

[lynnvinc]

A lot of environmentalists have a conception of man and his relationship to God that is inconsistent with the proclamation in the first chapter of Genesis that man and woman are created both in the image and likeness of God the Creator. They do not accept the idea that man is a creative being, endowed with a creative and reasoning mind just as God their Creator is. What most environmentalist believe is that man is no better than a talking beast. They hate truthful science and the notion that knowable scientific truth exists. They expouse the belief that technologies like nuclear power should not be allowed, just as the Greek pagan “God” Zeus tortured Prometheus for giving to man knowledge of the use of fire. Whether an individual environmentalist is aware of it or not, they are worshipping a conception of God and his relationship to man that is consistent with worship of the Greek “god” Zeus.

Another thought – I often think that creationists have a wrong conception of God as some white-bearded David Copperfield on a white cloud waving his magic finger. From St. John of the Cross, we are to understand that if we have any conception of God, whatever it is, it’s wrong. God is beyond human conception… And we could not have invented evolution; we could only have discovered it. And it has always wowed me all the more re God. Only God could make a tree…and create creation through evolution. Not the David Copperfield god of the creationists. My God is an awesome God. Totally awesome, beyond all awe.

I’m thinking, however, it is natural for people to tend towards anthropomorphizing God – thinking of Him in the image of man (which is not the same as God creating man in His image…which you seem to understand). The ancients didn’t have modern science to explain natural phenomena, so they based their understanding of it on themselves…they thought natural things (sun, moon, streams, trees, birds) were like people with spirits who sometimes got angry and could be cajoled, etc. Their religion was their “science.”

The Judeo-Christian conception, however, is of a transcendent God. While omnipresent, apart from creation, Totally Other. Beyond human conception.

I’m thinking this idea of a transcendent God actually helped in the development of science, because it freed people to find natural causes for natural things, with God not an anthropomorphic spiritual force in natural things – like winds blowing because of some animistic desire to do so, but due to natural causes.

So it almost seems contradictory to say that because a person accepts climate change science, ergo they have pagan/pantheistic beliefs.

 

[Warrenton]

Where is the choice for “no?”

The answer choices do not match the question.

The answers only relate to opinions. Thus, the question should be framed “Do you think most environmentalists…” if you want it to make sense in terms of the answers.

Hopefully, this was an oversight.

 

[lynnvinc]

[Environmentalists] expouse the belief that technologies like nuclear power should not be allowed.

I grew up in the 50s with the Scientific American Hour on TV, and one program was about nuclear…showing the bomb and also the greatness of nuclear energy…and it was up to use to use it wisely. They weren’t too much into side-effects like radiation then.

A bit later in Jr Hi I read the biography of Madam Curie, and was a bit disturbed that she died from cancer…from the radiation, no doubt.

Then in grad school in the 70s I did a term paper on Navajo uranium mining. One article was about how they were made to do the mining without protective gear (unlike the anglos, who got the protective gear), and how they had 85 times (not 85% more) the lung cancer death rate of the general population (and they had the highest quality air).

Then later in the 90s I read about how uranium mining was destroying the subsistence lands of the Niger peoples – who don’t even have electricity, nor do they get a penny from the operations. I called ComEd (I was in IL at the time) and they told me our electricity was about 75% nuke, 25% coal, and that the buy the uranium on the spot market…which could also be from Niger and/or the US Southwest.

Last year I went to a criminology conference, and one presentation was on the Bennet Freeze (in Arizona). Long story short, they are sick and dying from uranium mining operations.

I’ve been fairly quiet about nuclear, because I know it is an alternative to harmful fossil fuels (which cause local, regional, and global harms and deaths), but I would only ask that people do all they can without lowering their living standards or harming their pocketbooks to reduce their nuclear & fossil fuel electricity use through energy/resource efficiency/conservation and going on alt energy when feasible.

If they happen to be lay Carmelites or other orders which involve promises of “poverty,” I would suggest for ways they can even sacrifice a bit, like raising the thermostat to 80 F in summer, or walking up stairs rather than taking the elevator, etc. Little things, which are suggested as small penances we should do anyway for spiritual reasons.

Taking a hanky to wipe hands in public washrooms…The Little Way of Environmental Healing. Mother Teresa says, it doesn’t matter how small the deed, but the love with which it is done, that our love makes it infinite.

 

[Michael19682]

posted political discussion in error. I edited my own post for removal. Please accept my apology. MIchael19682