Does Being Saved Mean you can sin and go to Heaven

  • Thread starter Thread starter ConfusedTim
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

ConfusedTim

Guest
Honest question to all non Catholics - Lets say i commit myself to Jesus with all my heart - and then later sin - in your interpretation of being saved does that mean that even if commit a mortal sin like murder I am still assured of heaven?
 
I believe that they would say that if you commit murder after your “saved” you were never really “saved” to begin with.
 
I have honestly forgotten! After accepting the whole truth held by His Church, I see my relationship with Christ as a living, breathing entity. I can’t wait to go to my first reconciliation, because I KNOW that my sins keep me away from him.

I don’t remember how I dealt with it, or even thought of it, as a Protestant. I can say that there was an element of fear over losing salvation. I remember that. But I was a teenager who really never did anything really bad except arguing with my parents…don’t remember that being thought of a big sin, kwim?
 
Pillar of Fire Pillar of Truth:

What You Must Do to Be Saved
Best of all, the promise of eternal life is a gift, freely offered to us by God (CCC 1727). Our initial forgiveness and justification are not things we “earn” (CCC 2010). Jesus is the mediator who bridged the gap of sin that separates us from God (1 Tim. 2:5); he bridged it by dying for us. He has chosen to make us partners in the plan of salvation (1 Cor. 3:9).

The Catholic Church teaches what the apostles taught and what the Bible teaches: We are saved by grace alone, but not by faith alone (which is what “Bible Christians” teach; see Jas. 2:24).

When we come to God and are justified (that is, enter a right relationship with God), nothing preceding justification, whether faith or good works, earns grace. But then God plants his love in our hearts, and we should live out our faith by doing acts of love (Gal. 6:2).

Even though only God’s grace enables us to love others, these acts of love please him, and he promises to reward them with eternal life (Rom. 2:6–7, Gal. 6:6–10). Thus good works are meritorious. When we first come to God in faith, we have nothing in our hands to offer him. Then he gives us grace to obey his commandments in love, and he rewards us with salvation when we offer these acts of love back to him (Rom. 2:6–11, Gal. 6:6–10, Matt. 25:34–40).

Jesus said it is not enough to have faith in him; we also must obey his commandments. “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but do not do the things I command?” (Luke 6:46, Matt. 7:21–23, 19:16–21).

We do not “earn” our salvation through good works (Eph. 2:8–9, Rom. 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life (Rom. 2:7, Gal. 6:8–9).

Paul said, “God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work” (Phil. 2:13). John explained that “the way we may be sure that we know him is to keep his commandments. Whoever says, ‘I know him,’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:3–4, 3:19–24, 5:3–4).

Since no gift can be forced on the recipient—gifts always can be rejected—even after we become justified, we can throw away the gift of salvation. We throw it away through grave (mortal) sin (John 15:5–6, Rom. 11:22–23, 1 Cor. 15:1–2; CCC 1854–1863). Paul tells us, “The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23).

Read his letters and see how often Paul warned Christians against sin! He would not have felt compelled to do so if their sins could not exclude them from heaven (see, for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10, Gal. 5:19–21).

Paul reminded the Christians in Rome that God “will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness” (Rom. 2:6–8).

Sins are nothing but evil works (CCC 1849–1850). We can avoid sins by habitually performing good works. Every saint has known that the best way to keep free from sins is to embrace regular prayer, the sacraments (the Eucharist first of all), and charitable acts.

**Are You Guaranteed Heaven? **
Some people promote an especially attractive idea: All true Christians, regardless of how they live, have an absolute assurance of salvation, once they accept Jesus into their hearts as “their personal Lord and Savior.” The problem is that this belief is contrary to the Bible and constant Christian teaching.

Keep in mind what Paul told the Christians of his day: “If we have died with him [in baptism; see Rom. 6:3–4] we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him” (2 Tim. 2:11–12).

If we do not persevere, we shall not reign with him. In other words, Christians can forfeit heaven (CCC 1861).

The Bible makes it clear that Christians have a moral assurance of salvation (God will be true to his word and will grant salvation to those who have faith in Christ and are obedient to him [1 John 3:19–24]), but the Bible does not teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. Writing to Christians, Paul said, “See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22–23; Matt. 18:21–35, 1 Cor. 15:1–2, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

Note that Paul includes an important condition: “provided you remain in his kindness.” He is saying that Christians can lose their salvation by throwing it away. He warns, “Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall” (1 Cor. 10:11–12).

If you are Catholic and someone asks you if you have been “saved,” you should say, “I am redeemed by the blood of Christ, I trust in him alone for my salvation, and, as the Bible teaches, I am ‘working out my salvation in fear and trembling’ (Phil. 2:12), knowing that it is God’s gift of grace that is working in me.”
 
I believe that they would say that if you commit murder after your “saved” you were never really “saved” to begin with.
that is the muddy view used by many believers of OSAS. When backed into a corner, they usually come up with this excuse,:ehh:
 
I am trying to figure this out from a once saved always saved perspective. If you take the entire population of the world:
  1. one group (i.e. those that commit themselves to Christ) are saved because at one point in their life they committed themsleves to Jesus. These people will always be saved no matter what happens e.g. even if they commit a multitude of terrible sins
  2. a second group will be saved because it was never in their power to hear the message of Jesus. In this group are Muslims, Hindu’s, etc. and even athaeists who do not have the power because of their personal psychological circumstances to hear Jesus’ message
So who is left that is not saved using this doctrine?
 
If I’m not mistaken the OSAS perspective is:

a. If you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and invite him to take your life in his hands. You get to go to heaven no matter what. There is nothing that you can do now or in the future that will cause you to loose your salvation. Jesus died once and for all and His sacrifice abolished all sins past, present, and future.

or

b. There is no salvation for you.

or in some cases I’ve heard

c. You are Jewish and chosen, so God has a place for you.
 
ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That being said, if we cannot sin in order to get to heaven, then NONE of us are ever going to heaven:eek:. There may be some differences in the various churches about how you would “come back” from a sin such as murder, but I think they basically all include repentance and turning away from the sin. Now, someone who intentionally sins because they think they already are “going to heaven” is treading on very thin ice. However, only God knows the condition of one’s soul at the time of death and only He knows who will end up where.
Annie
 
Those who can really say that they are saved are those who are already in Heaven. As for me, I am redeemed, but I hope that I would be save. Only God knows.
 
Honest question to all non Catholics - Lets say i commit myself to Jesus with all my heart - and then later sin - in your interpretation of being saved does that mean that even if commit a mortal sin like murder I am still assured of heaven?
I agree with Bible_Catholic. Then you’d not have been saved in the first place…seems that the commitment to Christ was never true and in good faith in the first place. Of course if it was and then you suddenly changed your mind a week later then murdered a person a day for the rest of your life yeh that there is a problem. Too many people think it’s a get outta jail free card and I can sin all I want. By taking that approach you basically are poisoning yourself.
 
Honest question to all non Catholics - Lets say i commit myself to Jesus with all my heart - and then later sin - in your interpretation of being saved does that mean that even if commit a mortal sin like murder I am still assured of heaven?
ConfusedTim,

are you already saved? If yes, why are you still here? Why are you not in heaven?

The Bible says…‘will be saved’…it didn’t say is saved. Repent & Be Baptised and you will be saved…you and your family…NOT Repent & Be Baptised and you are saved together with your family. Salvation ONLY happens at the point of Redemption. None of us are saved yet…and none of us knows.

Nobody knows whose name is in the Book of the Living. So why are you asking whether if these people know their names will be in it after they murder somebody?

The Bible says ‘he who does the will of the Father’.

Now, THAT is the person who will be saved. Will such a person sin? maybe…will such a person murder? I don’t think so.

What is sin? Is hurting somebody sinning? Is cutting somebody’s ear sinning? So, Peter SINNED?! And since Peter believed in Jesus before he cut off that soldier’s ear, therefore he must have sinned and will likely be…?

Let’s not try to be judges when we have yet to be appointed as one.

Personally, I believe…ONCE SAVED is NOT = ALWAYS SAVED.

The Bible says that WILFUL SINNING is a mortal sin, you can check this out yourself. That means if I go by the bible, that if you sin Wilfully after you have already embraced the truth and accepted Christ, you can forget about going to heaven.

Paul says to work out your Salvation with fear and trembling…because we have YET to attain it. Now if you are working your Salvation out with FEAR and TREMBLING. Would you murder someone? Let’s also remember that the Bible ALSO says that the adulterers, the murderers, the liars etc will NOT inherit the kingdom. So, yes, according to the bible, the murderer will not inherit the kingdom. And if he cannot inherit the kingdom, how is he saved?

He’s not.

.
 
I agree with Bible_Catholic. Then you’d not have been saved in the first place…seems that the commitment to Christ was never true and in good faith in the first place. Of course if it was and then you suddenly changed your mind a week later then murdered a person a day for the rest of your life yeh that there is a problem. Too many people think it’s a get outta jail free card and I can sin all I want. By taking that approach you basically are poisoning yourself.
If Christ sacrifice took all the person’s past, present, and future’s sins and Christ was punished by Hell for it, then why would this person go to Hell if Christ has already done so? Wouldn’t that be double jeopardy for the righteous person? Hence if one chooses to sin or walk with God is merely academic. Salvation is assured and works (whether dead or good) doesn’t matter.
 
If Christ sacrifice took all the person’s past, present, and future’s sins and Christ was punished by Hell for it, then why would this person go to Hell if Christ has already done so? Wouldn’t that be double jeopardy for the righteous person? Hence if one chooses to sin or walk with God is merely academic. Salvation is assured and works (whether dead or good) doesn’t matter.
Dancelittleewok,

Problem is WHERE in the Bible does it say that Christ took all the person’s past, PRESENT and FUTURE sins?

WHERE?
  • Its not written. So, let’s not add something to scripture and then get all giddy over it.
INSTEAD…Look at this

Hebrews 6: 4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because**to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Above tells you clearly that OSAS is wrong. The book of Revelations tell us that even the CHOSEN has the danger of falling away.

BUT…that said, I believe that once God makes us His children, we become His, but let’s remember sin is the dividing wall. So if that child is a sinner, there’s noway God can have that child in the kingdom of God. It is a sad thing that people can fall away. Jesus said that anyone who causes these little ones to fall away should have a BOULDER tied round his neck and thrown into the ocean.

Tells you how SAD and SERIOUS it is. Indeed, those who causes others to fall away from God should be eternally Damned. Nevermind if they are church leaders or even preachers and priests…what they did was destroying the work of God (ie. God came to save people, but these men came to make people fall away). And THAT is darkness. And you can be sure that such will have no share in the kingdom of God.**
 
Dancelittleewok,

Problem is WHERE in the Bible does it say that Christ took all the person’s past, PRESENT and FUTURE sins?

WHERE?
  • Its not written. So, let’s not add something to scripture and then get all giddy over it.
INSTEAD…Look at this

Hebrews 6: 4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because**to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Above tells you clearly that OSAS is wrong. The book of Revelations tell us that even the CHOSEN has the danger of falling away.

BUT…that said, I believe that once God makes us His children, we become His, but let’s remember sin is the dividing wall. So if that child is a sinner, there’s noway God can have that child in the kingdom of God. It is a sad thing that people can fall away. Jesus said that anyone who causes these little ones to fall away should have a BOULDER tied round his neck and thrown into the ocean.

Tells you how SAD and SERIOUS it is. Indeed, those who causes others to fall away from God should be eternally Damned. Nevermind if they are church leaders or even preachers and priests…what they did was destroying the work of God (ie. God came to save people, but these men came to make people fall away). And THAT is darkness. And you can be sure that such will have no share in the kingdom of God.**

Dude, I’m Catholic and don’t believe in OSAS; I was pointing out the logical consequences all sufficient Christ sacrifice.
 
If Christ sacrifice took all the person’s past, present, and future’s sins and Christ was punished by Hell for it, then why would this person go to Hell if Christ has already done so? Wouldn’t that be double jeopardy for the righteous person? Hence if one chooses to sin or walk with God is merely academic. Salvation is assured and works (whether dead or good) doesn’t matter.
I know why you brought up my comment. I do believe Christ died for out sins. And with that the sins are forgiven and we may go to Heaven. However I do have a problem with people who out of selfishness decide use Christ as an excuse to do sin.
 
I know why you brought up my comment. I do believe Christ died for out sins. And with that the sins are forgiven and we may go to Heaven. However I do have a problem with people who out of selfishness decide use Christ as an excuse to do sin.
Catholics believe Christ redeemed all humanity as well. However, we as human do have a propensity to sin. If you believe that salvation is assured because Christ took all past, present, and future sin, why do you ask for forgiveness post saved experience if by Christ’s sacrifice you believe “all the sins are forgiven”?
 
Honest question to all non Catholics - Lets say i commit myself to Jesus with all my heart - and then later sin - in your interpretation of being saved does that mean that even if commit a mortal sin like murder I am still assured of heaven?
There’s no such thing as “mortal” or “venial” sins. All sin seperates from God - and if it wasn’t for Christ, then no one would be saved.
However, when Christ died, He died for ALL sin - not just those you committed until you became a believer, and then you’d have to wing it on your own, with the help of the Church. Christ died for ALL our sins, period.
Which means that if you come to Christ, and later commit sin, and repent of that sin, then yes - you are saved.

That’s the gospel in a nutshell. It’s never been popular though.
 
Honest question to all non Catholics - Lets say i commit myself to Jesus with all my heart - and then later sin - in your interpretation of being saved does that mean that even if commit a mortal sin like murder I am still assured of heaven?
I need to tell you something… the answer is yes and no.
GOD will change your life radically if you get changed. Can you imagine being completely and utterly dependent on Him and obeying Him as well as trying to please Him?
When you get saved you make yourself a slave to the Lord. Slaves do not own anything, they do not have any rights over themselves and they are absolutely and completely dependent upon the will of somebody other than themselves: their master.
When you become a slave to the Lord you are finished. Your life is over. You are done.
Being a slave (or bond-servant) to Jesus Christ is not like being a servant. A servant is paid and he can quit. A slave cannot do such a thing.
A true Christian will strive with all their might to please their Master and to do His will. (compare to 2 Corinthians 5:9) Of course this does not always take place and we sometimes are disobedient, but in as much as we are His slaves and are being rewarded we are also being disciplined by the Lord. Somebody who is truly a slave of the Lord will not commit such an atrocious act as a murder. A murderer however can still get saved and be forgiven.
I am a slave. I was bought with a price. I am owned by someone other than myself.
I gave up my independence, I gave up my freedom, I abandoned all my rights, I submit myself to an alien will, I am owned by and controlled by the Lord. That is what being a Christian is all about.
I have a personal relationship with the Lord: I am His slave.
 
I need to tell you something… the answer is yes and no.
GOD will change your life radically if you get changed. Can you imagine being completely and utterly dependent on Him and obeying Him as well as trying to please Him?
When you get saved you make yourself a slave to the Lord. Slaves do not own anything, they do not have any rights over themselves and they are absolutely and completely dependent upon the will of somebody other than themselves: their master.
When you become a slave to the Lord you are finished. Your life is over. You are done.
Being a slave (or bond-servant) to Jesus Christ is not like being a servant. A servant is paid and he can quit. A slave cannot do such a thing.
A true Christian will strive with all their might to please their Master and to do His will. (compare to 2 Corinthians 5:9) Of course this does not always take place and we sometimes are disobedient, but in as much as we are His slaves and are being rewarded we are also being disciplined by the Lord. Somebody who is truly a slave of the Lord will not commit such an atrocious act as a murder. A murderer however can still get saved and be forgiven.
I am a slave. I was bought with a price. I am owned by someone other than myself.
I gave up my independence, I gave up my freedom, I abandoned all my rights, I submit myself to an alien will, I am owned by and controlled by the Lord. That is what being a Christian is all about.
I have a personal relationship with the Lord: I am His slave.
I am trying to be fair here in my assessment of what i understand by once saved always saved and it seems that the once saved always saved doctrine is at best worthless and at worst dangerous.

Its worthless because you can see that on a practical level nobody can be assured that they are saved because at some point in the future that person might do something that means he was never saved in the first place. And although i used the etreme example of murder, which thankfully few people are capable of doing, we are all capable of breaking other commandments. I know of of married church elders who have had affairs, I know of committed Christians who try to dodge paying their full amount of tax (form of stealing), - are these people saved or will we invoke the clause that they were never really saved coz they wouldnt do that kind of thing if they had been saved?

The doctrine is dangerous because if you assume you are saved you are telling God that you are your own judge and that all the passages in the bible which warn us that we are not saved by faith alone or which exhort us to work out our salvation are wrong.

In effect can you point to one living person in this world who has been saved? If not then the doctrine is wrong and wortheless.
 
In effect can you point to one living person in this world who has been saved? If not then the doctrine is wrong and wortheless.
  • Paul Washer
  • Charo Washer
  • John MacArthur
  • John Hallum
  • Nathan Zimmerman
Their life is evidence that their are truly slaves of Jesus Christ and serve Him alone. Their sole focus is first of all Jesus Christ.
Christians in areas where there is severe persecution are giving evidence too. They might pay for their love for Jesus Christ with their lives.
Many missionaries throughout the ages fall into that category too… did you ever read about the life of Adoniram Judson?

Oh my… I forgot about the one person I can personally attest to: Me.
I am not saved because of my merit, but because of His merit. He is my Lord and I am His slave.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top