Does Capitlism, by its economic nature, help to encourage a moral society?

[vern_humphrey]

Let me point out that capitalism is simply the creation and operation of large-scale enterprises with private capital.

No modern nation can exist without such large-scale enterprises. Someone has to manufacture the tractors that cultivate the fields, the trucks and trains that deliver the goods, and so on. If these enterprises are not operated with private capital, they must be operated with public funds – as in the former Soviet Union.

The difference is, under capitalism freedom is a virtue. People are free to work as they will, earn as much or as little as they like, and so on. And the system is highly efficient. Under communism, they are not free and the system is highly inefficient.

Capitalists serve the customer, communists serve the ruling elite.

 

[freesoulhope]

It certainly doesn’t come from the “backs of the poor.”
Ender

It doesn’t? So all those people working for low wages, has nothing to do with the wealth that is produced through their hard work?

To run a business (depending on what kind of business your running), you need workers. I think I know exactly how things work. The workers are every bit important to the production of wealth, whatever job that may be. To blame the poor is a propaganda tactic, used by free market capitalist, to justify and legitimise exploitation. Please do not insult my intelligence.

There are people that have a very good educational background, but find themselves not finding the jobs they want, and then they find themselves having to work in low paid jobs, barely making ends meet. That’s the nature of competition and capitilism, it is not fair, and is not something that should be used to judge the failure of those coming mostly from broken homes and poor families, living in poor conditions, living in the one of the richest countries in the world. Its fair for the rich, they don’t lose out.

 

[freesoulhope]

Capitalists serve the customer, communists serve the ruling elite.

First of all, nobody is talking about communism. Second, a competition based market “must” have a restraint in order to safe guard the dignity of “human life”. It cannot be wholly free to do as it pleases; there must be a point where the Goverment must intervene; and they would be justified to do so. Surely you don’t believe that the production of wealth and profit is more important then a human being?

By the way, your profile says that you have worked in Goverment. Have you ever met George Bush?

 

[vern_humphrey]

A thing is worth what a willing buyer will offer and a willing seller will accept. If you accept a job at a given wage, then you and the employer have agreed that is what your labor is worth. If either of you disagree, then you don’t go to work for that employer.

An employer cannot afford to pay a worker more than his company can make from that worker’s efforts – plus the cost of taxes, rent, utilities, administration, “Employer’s Contribution” to Social Security, etc., etc. Attempts to force employers to pay more than the labor brings in help no one.

People who believe a certain job is worth more than employers are willing to pay for that job are perfectly free to start their own businesses and pay whatever wage they feel is just. If they won’t do that, then you have to wonder about their sinserty.

 

[vern_humphrey]

First of all, nobody is talking about communism. Second, a competition based market “must” have a restraint in order to safe guard the dignity of “human life”. It cannot be wholly free to do as it pleases; there must be a point where the Goverment must intervene; and they would be justified to do so. Surely you don’t believe that the production of wealth and profit is more important then a human being?

The question is, how and when and to what extent should government intervene?

For example, I see jobs gone, jobs shipped overseas, jobs held by illegal immigrants – a labor black market. Much of this is due to government intervention. As Walter Williams points out, raising the Minimum Wage results in the least skilled workers being priced out of the market – that’s an example of intervention hurting the very people government was trying to help!

[By the way, your profile says that you have worked in Goverment. Have you ever met George Bush?

Nope. Have you ever met Barak Obama?

 

[freesoulhope]

Where is life better: wealthy nations or poor ones? Capitalism

Why do you think there is any such thing as a poor nation? America has to, and is forced to, by the nature of its competitive industry and the capitalist system itself, to dominate weaker nations and keep them dominated; economically, socially, through war or otherwise.

You think that America goes to war for humanitarian efforts? You think that your country really gives a dame about you? Goverment does not run your country; capitalism, big business, that’s your leader, that’s driving force of your country.

The American Goverment sure works hard; and those poor countries, by your standards, just can’t be bothered to work at all. America is the good country and all the rest are just bullies trying to steal its wealth; poor America

 

[vern_humphrey]

Why do you think there is any such thing as a poor nation? America has to, and is forced to, by the nature of its competitive industry and the capitalist system itself, to dominate weaker nations and keep them dominated; economically, socially, through war or otherwise.

You think that America goes to war for humanitarian efforts? You think that your country really gives a dame about you? Goverment does not run your country; capitalism, big business, that’s your leader, that’s driving force of your country.

The American Goverment sure works hard; and those poor countries, by your standards, just can’t be bothered to work at all. America is the good country and all the rest are just bullies trying to steal its wealth; poor America

When do you leave to join Al Qaeda?

 

[mark_a]

Why do you think there is any such thing as a poor nation? America has to, and is forced to, by the nature of its competitive industry and the capitalist system itself, to dominate weaker nations and keep them dominated; economically, socially, through war or otherwise.

You think that America goes to war for humanitarian efforts? You think that your country really gives a dame about you? Goverment does not run your country; capitalism, big business, that’s your leader, that’s driving force of your country.

The American Goverment sure works hard; and those poor countries, by your standards, just can’t be bothered to work at all. America is the good country and all the rest are just bullies trying to steal its wealth; poor America

Give 'em hell, FreeSoulHope!!!

 

[Orionthehunter]

Just to be clear, i am not agains’t the market place per say; i just think that it is immoral that it should be unregulated and left in the hands of those who would pay crumbs instead of what people truly deserve as contributors to production and service. Human life and human dignity is more valuble.

You are against the market. The whole point of the market is that it is as unregulated as possible so it can be the most efficient distributor of labor, capital and property. Then in its efficiency, the people will have the greatest economic prosperity possible.

You mention that the first rule of yours would be that employers must pay a “livable wage”. Assuming that you and I can agree how much that is, are you then going to require that I hire unemployed people who are unable to perform the job at that wage?

 

[DanteAlighieri]

You are against the market. The whole point of the market is that it is as unregulated as possible so it can be the most efficient distributor of labor, capital and property. Then in its efficiency, the people will have the greatest economic prosperity possible.

You mention that the first rule of yours would be that employers must pay a “livable wage”. Assuming that you and I can agree how much that is, are you then going to require that I hire unemployed people who are unable to perform the job at that wage?

Objecting to the immoral treatment of workers (which cannot be denied, though it is not true in EVERY case) does not mean one objects to the existence of a capitalist free market. At the same time, Orion, you have to admit that (as I said before) the freedom granted by such a market economy is quite conducive to such abuses.

I reiterate my point: while a free market, capitalist economic system is not inherently evil, and while the freedom to choose good or evil is a fundamental privelege, such a free system is apt to be rife with abuse and immoral treatment of workers and consumers alike.

We must allow entrepreneurs to choose whether they will be greedy or generous, or else we limit the effectiveness of the marketplace. No matter what system we choose, there will be corruption and abuse; thus, we must choose the lesser of two evils: capitalism.

 

[Ender]

Why do you think there is any such thing as a poor nation?

Mostly it has to do with the form of government a nation has. Those that allow their citizens the freedom to run their own lives are wealthy; those that don’t, aren’t.

America has to, and is forced to, by the nature of its competitive industry and the capitalist system itself, to dominate weaker nations and keep them dominated; economically, socially, through war or otherwise.

Oh my … but what explains Japan’s wealth? Or Germany’s? Those countries were destroyed in WWII. How is it that they were economically restored before they had the power to dominate anyone? What explains the success of Hong Kong and Singapore? How about Switzerland; they haven’t attacked anyone in 600 years? What kind of domination does Belgium engage in? How does Bermuda meet your criteria for capitalist wealth accumulation?

The success of capitalism and the countries that allow and encourage it is based not on the domination of others but on the rights of the individual.

Ender

 

[DanteAlighieri]

The success of capitalism and the countries that allow and encourage it is based not on the domination of others but on the rights of the individual.

 

[ishii]

The problem with socialism is socialism. The problem with fascism is fascism. The problem with capitalism is capitalists. See the difference? I would take a capitalist country in which businesses are operated by just Christians over any other “ism” run by non-Christians or corrupt Christians. The continuous challenge is to try to build a capitalistic society in which decisions are made by Christians who take their religion seriously. Capitalism is not inherently bad. The success depends on the righteousness of those participating in the economy, from the business owners to the workers and the consumers. One more thing, the economic success of one country (America, for example) does not imply that the success had to come at the expense of another country, as “free soul hope” wrongly implies. It is not a zero-sum gain. Ishii

 

[DanteAlighieri]

The problem with socialism is socialism. The problem with fascism is fascism. The problem with capitalism is capitalists. See the difference? I would take a capitalist country in which businesses are operated by just Christians over any other “ism” run by non-Christians or corrupt Christians. The continuous challenge is to try to build a capitalistic society in which decisions are made by Christians who take their religion seriously.

Indeed.

However, despite what many think, economic and financial windfall is not the usual reward for a devout and pious Christian, unless God has a plan for that person that would require him/her to be financially successful. Thus, the movers and shakers in our economy are often those for whom money and/or influence and/or power are the primary motivators. And yet, if one is a Catholic businessperson or entrepreneur, one must be the example in the business world that Christians are called to be in their day-to-day lives, so that others can see and be inspired by them.

Peace,
Dante

 

[vern_humphrey]

The problem with socialism is socialism. The problem with fascism is fascism. The problem with capitalism is capitalists. See the difference? I would take a capitalist country in which businesses are operated by just Christians over any other “ism” run by non-Christians or corrupt Christians. The continuous challenge is to try to build a capitalistic society in which decisions are made by Christians who take their religion seriously. Capitalism is not inherently bad. The success depends on the righteousness of those participating in the economy, from the business owners to the workers and the consumers. One more thing, the economic success of one country (America, for example) does not imply that the success had to come at the expense of another country, as “free soul hope” wrongly implies. It is not a zero-sum gain. Ishii

The delusion that economics is a zero-sum game is widespread. Why our schools do not teach basic economics is beyond me – perhaps it is because then too many children would be successful, and the welfare roles would shrink?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Odds are asked to define capitalism - most would get it wrong. Similarly the objectives of socialism and communism have never been able to survive in their own societies. The US is not a true “capital based society” it is a blended society and never accurately blended. However by migrating to far in each direction the US has been able to sustain a health amount of personal freedom and liberty. I would be the first to support a better society all I need is to know what that society is?