Does Catholic baptism make you Catholic?

[Luke2220]

Trying to evangelize and rebuild the faith of some young Catholics I know.

They were baptised Catholic as babies.
Apparently, due to family issues, they were not raised as Catholic.
They have NOT received the full compliment of the rites of initiation: one missed the sacrament of confirmation; another has missed both 1st communion and confirmation.
They are not ernestly practicing the faith, and may only attend mass when it is convienient.
They have a solid bible based christian faith.
They are frequently challenged about the Catholic faith, being the FULL truth of Christ; that Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church; that Holy Communion is NOT just a rememberance symbol event, and many other Catholic positions that would make someone ponder “hhmmm, Good point!”. It has them thinking
They have never been re-baptized or denounced their baptism.
They have not formally, by declaration of written letter to the bishop, denounced the catholic faith.

They comment to me they are not catholic; I encourage them that they are, because of their baptism.

Question1: are they catholic based on baptism alone?

And then this odd interest in a Catholic wedding gets raised, which seems to be attractive to the girls of the group.

Question2: When these young people start to ponder marriage in the next decade, would they be required to be married in the Catholic Church, as baptised Catholics? Even if they have not received the full introductory sacraments?

Blessings,

Luke2220

 

[TheDoctor]

As I understand, if you were baptized in the Catholic Church and have not formally renounced it, then you are Catholic regardless of what you were or were not raised and are bound to follow the teachings of the Church, including those on marriage.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

They have a solid Bible based christian faith…

They comment to me they are not catholic

Do they attend some other church? If they have a “solid Bible based Christian faith,” they would see the apostolic nature of the Catholic Church and the need to be a part of the Church and not in an occasional way. It is no fault of their own if they did not receive any religious instruction as children, but they can certainly obtain it now.

Question1: are they Catholic based on baptism alone?

Yes, of course.

Question2: When these young people start to ponder marriage in the next decade, would they be required to be married in the Catholic Church, as baptised Catholics?

Yes, if they want their marriage to be recognized as valid by God and the Church.

 

[OraLabora]

As I understand, if you were baptized in the Catholic Church and have not formally renounced it, then you are Catholic regardless of what you were or were not raised and are bound to follow the teachings of the Church, including those on marriage.

The option to formally renounce Catholicism has been removed from the 1983 Code of Canon Law. You can no longer formally renounce it. Once baptized, always Catholic.

 

[Joe_5859]

As Catholics, we believe that Baptism actually does something. It wipes away Original Sin, but it also incorporate you into the Mystical Body of Christ – the Church – and imparts an indellible mark on your soul. That doesn’t change simply because we stop practicing.

So, yes, once you are baptized Catholic you are, in a very real sense, always Catholic.

Now, I wouldn’t necessarily quibble with people over what religion they self-identify with. To keep hounding them that they are not really Baptist (or whatever) because they are still Catholic is likely to come across as belligerent.

But, as the Doctor said, they are still bound by the Church’s law when it comes to things like marriage. So they technically need to get married in the Catholic Church in order to have a valid marriage.

 

[Socrates1889]

NOOOOOO!!

I do not like that people think baptism is becoming Catholic. Being Catholic is not only going through the rituals but, and more importantly, how you live your life.

My sister was refused baptism for her child because she herself was not a practicing Catholic. The priest claimed that “baptism is an initiation into the church.”

Baptism is the washing away of original sin. Catholic belief (as I was taught) is that you may not enter the gates of heaven while maintaining original sin. Babies being baptized are washed of original sin but it is the godparents who give the promise to ensure the child is raised Catholic. It is not until Confirmation that the child affirms the promise to be and live as a Catholic.

You can be “baptized Catholic” or even “raised Catholic” but if you do not live or believe the Catholic faith, you are not Catholic.

 

[Socrates1889]

As Catholics, we believe that Baptism actually does something. It wipes away Original Sin, but it also incorporate you into the Mystical Body of Christ – the Church – and imparts an indellible mark on your soul. That doesn’t change simply because we stop practicing.

So, yes, once you are baptized Catholic you are, in a very real sense, always Catholic.

Now, I wouldn’t necessarily quibble with people over what religion they self-identify with. To keep hounding them that they are not really Baptist (or whatever) because they are still Catholic is likely to come across as belligerent.

But, as the Doctor said, they are still bound by the Church’s law when it comes to things like marriage. So they technically need to get married in the Catholic Church in order to have a valid marriage.

Obviously I am wrong in my quote above because that is why we have Baptists, right? No , seriously no sarcasm. I just choose to believe you must believe in order to be.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

“We Confess One Baptism for the forgivness of sins …” -Creed

Baptism does three things:

1. Forgivness of original sin.
2. Makes us members of the Church
3. Gives Divine Grace.

Baptism in most Christian churches (Baptist, Evangelical, Luthern) count as the one baptism we confess in the creed.

 

[dshix]

NOOOOOO!!

I do not like that people think baptism is becoming Catholic. Being Catholic is not only going through the rituals but, and more importantly, how you live your life.

My sister was refused baptism for her child because she herself was not a practicing Catholic. The priest claimed that “baptism is an initiation into the church.”

Baptism is the washing away of original sin. Catholic belief (as I was taught) is that you may not enter the gates of heaven while maintaining original sin. Babies being baptized are washed of original sin but it is the godparents who give the promise to ensure the child is raised Catholic. It is not until Confirmation that the child affirms the promise to be and live as a Catholic.

You can be “baptized Catholic” or even “raised Catholic” but if you do not live or believe the Catholic faith, you are not Catholic.

When you are baptised, you have an indelible character placed on your soul. You are Catholic. This is proven by canon law.

In cases in which a person leaves or is not raised in the Church, they still have that mark, and are still a part of the Church because of it. They are Catholics by that spiritual mark, even if they do not profess or practice it.

 

[Joe_5859]

Obviously I am wrong in my quote above because that is why we have Baptists, right? No , seriously no sarcasm. I just choose to believe you must believe in order to be.

Baptism does more than just wipe away Original Sin. It makes us an adopted Son of God (CCC 1265) and incorporates us into the Church (CCC 1267). This is not mere opinion. This is the Church’s teaching on Baptism. I recommend reading the entire section on Baptism.

Now whether or not someone is a practicing Catholic in good standing is another matter entirely. But we cannot cast people out of the Church just because that’s what we would like to choose to believe. We ought to follow the Church’s teaching as laid out in the Catechism and in Canon Law.

 

[St_Francis]

NOOOOOO!!

I do not like that people think baptism is becoming Catholic. Being Catholic is not only going through the rituals but, and more importantly, how you live your life.

My sister was refused baptism for her child because she herself was not a practicing Catholic. The priest claimed that “baptism is an initiation into the church.”

Baptism is the washing away of original sin. Catholic belief (as I was taught) is that you may not enter the gates of heaven while maintaining original sin. Babies being baptized are washed of original sin but it is the godparents who give the promise to ensure the child is raised Catholic. It is not until Confirmation that the child affirms the promise to be and live as a Catholic.

You can be “baptized Catholic” or even “raised Catholic” but if you do not live or believe the Catholic faith, you are not Catholic.

In actuality, once people are baptized, they have been entered into the state of being Catholic. The Original Sin has been washed away and they are now children of God.

Baptism has always been denied to non-practicing Catholics (altho this has not always been practiced strictly) or to non-Catholics. During WW2, the Church forbade baptizing Jewish children in the care of Catholics, because it was assumed that the children would not be raised Catholic once they were returned to the care of their parents or relatives.

In different, everyday usage, you are correct. One would not call Hitler Catholic by any means; however, this causes confusion. It is better to call people heterodox, non-practicing, lapsed, not raised Catholic rather than describing them as not Catholic. No matter what happens, any person properly baptized has God’s mark on their soul, and this is very important.

It is very important for the state of their souls to get them back into their Faith, so that they can live according to the state of their souls. Otherwise, they may very easily be lost for all eternity.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

… But, as the Doctor said, they are still bound by the Church’s law when it comes to things like marriage. So they technically need to get married in the Catholic Church in order to have a valid marriage.

I should say NOT … Ummm Marriage is the act of conjugal love. I would say this should NOT occur in a Catholic Church, but privately in the bedroom. We can have a marriage blessed by the Church, but we do not perform the act in church.

Marriage is an ongoing sacrament like the Eucharist. We need to give ourselves selflessly, totally, faithfully, in fidelity, and be open to life in both sacraments. When we are not in a state of grace we should not take either sacrament until we’ve reconciled & completed penance. It’s recommended to take once a year; weekly & daily is welcome for many.

 

[Richard320]

NOOOOOO!!

I do not like that people think baptism is becoming Catholic. Being Catholic is not only going through the rituals but, and more importantly, how you live your life. /QUOTE]Sounds like

I do not like them
in a house.
I do not like them
with a mouse.
I do not like them
here or there.
I do not like them
anywhere.
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

Sorry, an indelible mark on your soul, placed there by your parents’ request, is there just as much as a tattoo would be on your skin if your parents had you tattooed as an infant, or as if you would have holes in your ears if they had them pierced for you. You’re also stuck with the name they gave you and the language you speak.

Those that do not practice the faith are still Catholic; they’re called nonpracticing Catholics, or Lapsed Catholics, or Raised Catholics, or some other euphemism. Funny thing is - and you can ask your priest about this some day when you see him outsiode after Mass - they’re all Catholic at the end.

 

[Joe_5859]

I should say NOT … Ummm Marriage is the act of conjugal love. I would say this should NOT occur in a Catholic Church, but privately in the bedroom. We can have a marriage blessed by the Church, but we do not perform the act in church.

Marriage is an ongoing sacrament like the Eucharist. We need to give ourselves selflessly, totally, faithfully, in fidelity, and be open to life in both sacraments. When we are not in a state of grace we should not take either sacrament until we’ve reconciled & completed penance. It’s recommended to take once a year; weekly & daily is welcome for many.

Exchanging vows in a Church before the Church’s representative and two witnesses is getting married. It is not consummating the marriage, but it is still getting married.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Baptism makes you Christian as it unites you with the death and resurrection of Christ. Catholic, or Orthodox, or whatever, is a mark of faith. So regardless where you are baptized, if you profess a certain faith then you are a Christian of that faith. I think we’ve moved away from the original understanding of “catholic” as a mark of the Church and the faith. We look at it more now as a label where you become branded with it and can’t shake it off no matter what. The Orthodox see the big “O” and small “o” “orthodox” as the same thing. You can’t be one and not the other. So if you profess a heterodox faith, you are neither. I think even the problem today brought by liberal Catholics is this understanding. They think because they were baptized in a Catholic Church and goes to Mass (or Liturgy if they are EC) every Sunday means that they are Catholic. But obviously if you do not believe as the Church teaches, then you are not Catholic. Of course there should be some leeway given here, we can’t learn everything and faith is a continous process. There is a difference between one who believes in the wrong thing because he doesn’t know, and the one who believes in the wrong thing because he wouldn’t accept instruction.

 

[Socrates1889]

When you are baptised, you have an indelible character placed on your soul. You are Catholic. This is proven by canon law.

In cases in which a person leaves or is not raised in the Church, they still have that mark, and are still a part of the Church because of it. They are Catholics by that spiritual mark, even if they do not profess or practice it.

In actuality, once people are baptized, they have been entered into the state of being Catholic. The Original Sin has been washed away and they are now children of God.

Baptism has always been denied to non-practicing Catholics (altho this has not always been practiced strictly) or to non-Catholics. During WW2, the Church forbade baptizing Jewish children in the care of Catholics, because it was assumed that the children would not be raised Catholic once they were returned to the care of their parents or relatives.

In different, everyday usage, you are correct. One would not call Hitler Catholic by any means; however, this causes confusion. It is better to call people heterodox, non-practicing, lapsed, not raised Catholic rather than describing them as not Catholic. No matter what happens, any person properly baptized has God’s mark on their soul, and this is very important.

It is very important for the state of their souls to get them back into their Faith, so that they can live according to the state of their souls. Otherwise, they may very easily be lost for all eternity.

To the two of you Thank You and I appreciate your explanations and I like how you put them. I would love for you to give me your thought on another question I may pose… but first

Socrates1889;9988069:

NOOOOOO!!

I do not like that people think baptism is becoming Catholic. Being Catholic is not only going through the rituals but, and more importantly, how you live your life. /QUOTE]Sounds like

I do not like them
in a house.
I do not like them
with a mouse.
I do not like them
here or there.
I do not like them
anywhere.
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

.

That’s cute but dude really, did you think it necessary?

Funny thing is - and you can ask your priest about this some day when you see him outsiode after Mass.
.

If we could just rely on the priests after mass, none of use would need to be in here. By the way the priest at my church has legally adopted the woman he was going to leave the priesthood for to marry. I don’t I want to rely on him too much. Well… he has since moved but the new one isn’t much better.

Now back to my question…

The role of a priest is to continue the work of Jesus and to help guide us on the road to Salvation. While I want them to be “Holier than Thou” I know they are not as Holy as Jesus Christ himself. We also believe no soul may enter Heaven without baptism.

Did Jesus give them the divine right to say who can go to Heaven when it comes to denying baptism to an infant child? I thought who could enter the gates of Heaven was purely up to God and it was the priest job to do what ever needed to be done to give every person a proper chance. We are born with free will but babies are not able to act on it and it’s not as if baptism is a free ticket to heaven.

Also, if a Catholic is so by baptism then how do Baptists become Catholic when we do not baptize them because their Baptist baptism is acknowledged? Wow that’s confusing.
Once a Baptist always a Baptist?

 

[poche]

There are two questions here.
In answer to the first, yes they are considered Catholic by their Baptism.

In answer to the second, if they want to get married in the Catholic church they would have to talk to the priest. I have seen some individuals confirmed during their wedding, or it could be arranged at some other time. Of course that implies that they want to return to the practice of their faith.

That would be a good prayer intention.

 

[St_Francis]

Baptism makes you Christian as it unites you with the death and resurrection of Christ. Catholic, or Orthodox, or whatever, is a mark of faith. So regardless where you are baptized, if you profess a certain faith then you are a Christian of that faith. I think we’ve moved away from the original understanding of “catholic” as a mark of the Church and the faith. We look at it more now as a label where you become branded with it and can’t shake it off no matter what. The Orthodox see the big “O” and small “o” “orthodox” as the same thing. You can’t be one and not the other. So if you profess a heterodox faith, you are neither. I think even the problem today brought by liberal Catholics is this understanding. They think because they were baptized in a Catholic Church and goes to Mass (or Liturgy if they are EC) every Sunday means that they are Catholic. But obviously if you do not believe as the Church teaches, then you are not Catholic. Of course there should be some leeway given here, we can’t learn everything and faith is a continous process. There is a difference between one who believes in the wrong thing because he doesn’t know, and the one who believes in the wrong thing because he wouldn’t accept instruction.

I just want to clarify for any who may be confused that yours is not the teaching of the Catholic Church.

 

[St_Francis]

To the two of you Thank You and I appreciate your explanations and I like how you put them. I would love for you to give me your thought on another question I may pose… but first

Thank you

…

The role of a priest is to continue the work of Jesus and to help guide us on the road to Salvation. While I want them to be “Holier than Thou” I know they are not as Holy as Jesus Christ himself. We also believe no soul may enter Heaven without baptism.

Did Jesus give them the divine right to say who can go to Heaven when it comes to denying baptism to an infant child? I thought who could enter the gates of Heaven was purely up to God and it was the priest job to do what ever needed to be done to give every person a proper chance. We are born with free will but babies are not able to act on it and it’s not as if baptism is a free ticket to heaven.
First, one must remember that water baptism is not the only type of baptism: there is also Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood (martyrdom).

It is because baptism is not a free ticket to Heaven that a good priest will refuse to baptize a baby whose parents are apparently unwilling to raise Catholic. Someone with the mark of baptism on their souls is treated differently at their judgement than someone who has not been baptized; to baptize a child who will not learn about the attendant obligations is to do that child a disservice, no? because it will actually make it harder for that child to enter Heaven.

We are bound by the sacraments, but God is not. God is the ultimate judge of who will enter Heaven.

Also, if a Catholic is so by baptism then how do Baptists become Catholic when we do not baptize them because their Baptist baptism is acknowledged? Wow that’s confusing.
Once a Baptist always a Baptist?

Well, all who are properly baptized are Catholic; it’s just that some of them do not know they are Catholic. These are called “crypto-Catholics,” meaning hidden Catholics. Those who have been properly baptized are received into the Church without baptism, because they already have the mark on their souls indicating that they are children of God.

(I have always been secretly amused by this.)

 

[Socrates1889]

First, one must remember that water baptism is not the only type of baptism: there is also Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood (martyrdom).

It is because baptism is not a free ticket to Heaven that a good priest will refuse to baptize a baby whose parents are apparently unwilling to raise Catholic. Someone with the mark of baptism on their souls is treated differently at their judgement than someone who has not been baptized; to baptize a child who will not learn about the attendant obligations is to do that child a disservice, no? because it will actually make it harder for that child to enter Heaven.

So while Baptism is not a ticket to heaven, it is also not the only means to heaven? It’s easy to forget in the big picture God’s will be done.

Well, all who are properly baptized are Catholic; it’s just that some of them do not know they are Catholic. These are called “crypto-Catholics,” meaning hidden Catholics. Those who have been properly baptized are received into the Church without baptism, because they already have the mark on their souls indicating that they are children of God.

(I have always been secretly amused by this.)

I’ve hear the term but never really knew what it meant. Thank You