Does Catholic Eschatology Diminish the Hope of Messianic Judaism?

[mercytruth]

so beautiful. so beautiful. I’m just right now reading his Psalms, even though I should be long asleep…

I didn’t say you were denying Jesus as the messiah. I was thinking out loud what I’ve sometimes been thinking to myself.

The eschatological irony of the meaning of Psalm 39:12 has everything to do with why the Catholic Church rejected the millenial Chiliasm. King David of Israel is declaring that he is a sojourner with the Lord while he was living as King in Israel over Israel.

This is identical to that which the writer of the book of Hebrews in the NT says of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. "As strangers and sojourners they dwelt in tents, looking for that city whose builder and maker is God.

In other words, King David, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were all looking for a heavenly Jerusalem.

Justin Martyr who believed in the millenial, speaks of an earthly Jerusalem inhabited by the resurrected OT saints and the saints of the church. He also spoke of the renewal of creation as spoken by the prophet Isaiah. (Dialogue of Trypho)

Ireneaus who believed in the millenial, seems to speak of both a heavenly Jerusalem
inhabited by the resurrected saints, and an earthly Jerusalem, and of the renewal of creation as spoken by the prophet Isaiah. He also speaks of the survivors of the coming judgment during the time of the anti-christ as repopulating the earth. He does not identify who these survivors will be. (Against Heresies)

Lactantius who believed in the millenial speaks of an earthly Jerusalem inhabited by the resurrected saints, and of the earth being repopulated by ‘righteous’ survivors of the coming judgment during the time of the anti-christ. (The Divine Institutes)

Tertullian has the most unusual understanding of the millenial. He believed that the saints will be resurrected and ‘raptured’ into the heavenly Jerusalem which will descend from heaven and apparently be in the air over the earth. He mentions that a heavenly city was seen as appearing and fading over Judea according to the testimony by Severus in 'Against the Parthians". (Against Marcion)

In Judaism, there is the eschatolgical understanding of both an earthly, and a heavenly Jerusalem coming to this earth.

myjewishlearning.com/holi…erusalem.shtml

It seems as though only Irenaeus understood this, but we do not know his source of understanding. If we understand the coming of the Lord from this perspective, then we can incorporate the restoration of national Israel, and of earthly Jerusalem into the eschatology of the coming heavenly Jerusalem.

God’s peace to you

micah

 

[mercytruth]

A few sources regarding this eschatological understanding of the two Jerusalems within Judaism:

myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Jewish_Holidays/Passover/The_Seder/Conducting_a_Seder/After_the_Meal/Next_Year_in_Jerusalem.shtml

myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Jewish_Holidays/Modern_Holidays/Yom_Yerushalayim/Centrality_of_Jerusalem/Heavenly_Jerusalem.shtml

 

[Candescent]

e Divine Institutes)

In Judaism, there is the eschatolgical understanding of both an earthly, and a heavenly Jerusalem coming to this earth.

myjewishlearning.com/holi…erusalem.shtml

It seems as though only Irenaeus understood this, but we do not know his source of understanding. If we understand the coming of the Lord from this perspective, then we can incorporate the restoration of national Israel, and of earthly Jerusalem into the eschatology of the coming heavenly Jerusalem.

God’s peace to you

micah

Very interesting thread! Are there any concrete plans to rebuild the Temple?
I was listening to Ofra Haza sing Jerusalem of Gold when I came upon this thread…

 

[mercytruth]

Very interesting thread! Are there any concrete plans to rebuild the Temple?
I was listening to Ofra Haza sing Jerusalem of Gold when I came upon this thread…

Yes, there are attempts to re-build the Temple on the same location as the first and second Temples. A great difficulty, as it is held to be protected ground by the government of Israel, for it is the site of the Muslim Mosque, known as the Dome of The Rock.

The Temple Mount organization speaks of the Sandhedrin as presiding during the millenium reign of one thousand years during the ‘seventh day’ of the Messianic era.

templemount.org/tempprep.html

The Temple Institute has prepared and made many of the priestly vestments and sacred articles for the Temple they hope to build some day.

templeinstitute.org/vessels_gallery_11.htm

God’s peace be with you

micah

 

[504Katrin]

In my opinion, I can imagine that the mosque won’t be an issue because when Muslims see the Messiah they will have to confess that they were wrong hence how could they oppose tearing down that mosque? And also, I’ve heard that there will be peace when this happens so it can’t be that there will be any fights over it in my opinion

 

[mercytruth]

In my opinion, I can imagine that the mosque won’t be an issue because when Muslims see the Messiah they will have to confess that they were wrong hence how could they oppose tearing down that mosque? And also, I’ve heard that there will be peace when this happens so it can’t be that there will be any fights over it in my opinion

Yes, Muslims expect Isa (Jesus) of Maryam to descend from heaven at the time of the resurrection, that he will destroy the anti-christ, and he will come to judge. They expect this to be a time when the earth will be restored. They differ on whether it will be only Muslims who will be allowed to live, or whether there will be peace between Muslims, Jews and Christians.

myreligionislam.com/detail.asp?Aid=5857
missionislam.com/comprel/descentisa.htm

However, if the Temple Institute, or some such body of religious leaders were to build a temple on the Temple Mount before the appearance of the Messiah, then short of a miracle, one could expect violent opposition.

God’s peace be with you

micah