Does Catholic rudeness keep you away from the Church?

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I have met few Catholics in “real life” who were rude. They have been adamant, even insistant, usually engaging, but rarely rude. On here it seems to be a different matter. It seems to be kind of like driving a car. They say that road rage is somewhat a matter of lack of body language. That is to say that the subtle signals of face to face encounter are missing. Here we only have words in type, and that constitutes an insualtion of sorts, it being that we have to rely more on dictionaryisms and not so much on inflections and tones. Unfortunately for this kind of communication, that subtlty is where a large part of our social navigational information and markers come from. It may account for a large part of the rampant adversarialism found in these forums.

That being said, anyone’s religious, or other, convictions usually seem to fall into the catagory of an intractable position. In my experience, having been a very missionary minded Catholic, and having won a prestigious award in our state-wide high school system for knowledge of our theology, it took a major shock to get me to look at what I believed, and at how I was willing to look at it. Before the denouement shock, having had a few minor ones, I seriously persued the advice of my confessors. After, I found only one who even remotely understood the position I had metaphysically found myself in. I actually had to go outside the Church to rediscover its meaning for me. It wasn’t after that, by any means, the same Church in terms of understanding, that I had promoted with all my heart at the begining.

But I found that the position of religionists of any sort or description who had not faced a severe internal challange to be very inflexible and unaccomodating to the nature of the need for inquiry in many situations that were, for me at least, necessary and legitimate lines of questioning. I could not, myself, force my experience into the constraint of dogmatic belief as I understood it at the start. It was like I had to stop believing in Santa Clause, The Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy all at once, step back, erase the blackboard and start again. This time it was for real, on my own, and not because I had believed somone. Now I had to KNOW. In a way I envied those who simply believed, but I was in the position of the seeker who found the happy people by the river bank.

I was in the pain of crisis, and adamantine dogmatizing was not the solution for me. Ultimately I came to understand that Good, a synonym for God, and religious form are two different things that only seem to intersect. They are certainly not necessarily congrutent, at least from my perspective.

So it was kindness and understanding of my situation that allowed me to consider anyone’s offerings, while I became hypersensetive to anyone who was simply spouting an untested faith out of birth habit or from insecurity. So I have to say that I responded primarily to feeling, rather than to argument, though the feeling of being accepted on my own terms for who and what I am allowed me to listen to various cognative lines. Any hint of rudness or obvious false piety just set me off. What attracted me was the voice of experience. That never seeks converts, only the honesty which may beget transformation.

Anyway, that is my two cents worth on the topic, with one last observation. Given the parable of the lost sheep and the Love of the Almighty, I had to ask, which of my children would I allow to go to hell? Ask yourself that as a parent and choose, and decide if browbeating or rudeness, or any such acts of frustrated ignorance, would be your method of choice for demonstrating your love as a representative of God.
Spoken with great wisdom. The problem as I see it, is having a view and then only seeking evidence to support it rather than going into the subject with open mind and following what appears to be logic and truth. We see this insideous wrong thinking on the issue of evolution for instance, where people with a psychological need to believe certain things then search for “evidence” to support their belief. Such never leads to much good and does on the contrary lead to great harm.
 
It is my belief that all churches together make up the universal church, holy, catholic and apostolic. I would agree that some faith systems embody a more complete truth than others, otherwise there would be no point to the various denominations at all. Each finds his or her place in the great pantheon that is Christianity. I am convinced God speaks to all believers in any case.

I believe in giving due respect to those who came before, and what they believe. However, they were men and a few women just like you and me,and subject to faulty reasoning of course the same as we are.

One hopes that over time we discover greater and greater agreement on basic truths.
So you believe the “church” is purely spiritual?
 
Not naming any names, but I notice quite a few posts and threads in this section which seem to be unnecessarily belligerent and argumentative towards Protestants.

I’m a Catholic, but I’ve been outside the Church more than once in my life. And during those times, when I would venture to Catholic or Christian discussion boards, I’d really be offended and put off by that kind of message.

For me, it was the kind Christians - the ones who had a sense of humor and tried to engage me where I was, rather than argue with me - who “softened me up” and got me in the state of mind where I could seriously reconsider coming home.

What do you think, non-Catholics (and non-Christians)? What kind of Catholic would you prefer to deal with - one who constantly tells you you’re on the road to Hell, or one who walks by your side, chatting and laughing and using “gentle persuasion”?
The problem here is people don’t belong to the Catholic church because people are nice…🤷 They belong because of the church which was founded by Christ…good grief…
 
The problem here is people don’t belong to the Catholic church because people are nice…🤷 They belong because of the church which was founded by Christ…good grief…
If you meet a thousand New Yorkers and every one of them is unpleasant and surly, would you not think that dwelling in New York is the lowest common denominator?

By the same token, if you meet a thousand Catholics and they’re all jerks, wouldn’t the average person look at their church as the lowest common denominator?
 
If you meet a thousand New Yorkers and every one of them is unpleasant and surly, would you not think that dwelling in New York is the lowest common denominator?

By the same token, if you meet a thousand Catholics and they’re all jerks, wouldn’t the average person look at their church as the lowest common denominator?
Has anyone actually met a thousand Catholic jerks? This site does not represent normative in my opinion.
 

That means that the Church is something people belong to intermittently - which is a ruinous principle for anything resembling Catholic ecclesiology. A lot of Catholics are foul human beings; but if their being Catholics is to be at the mercy of their nice outward behaviour, what hope have they ? Your principle destroys their identity & their hope of changing for the better: it’s a temptation to leave. Surely that is not intended 😦 ?​

If the CC is only for nice people, it is no church for normal human beings :mad:
your response does not even address what I said. This is a church of sinners, Jesus came to heal the sick and save the sinners, not to pat the righteous on the head. To make a choice of where to worship based on human personalities of one’s fellow worshippers, rather than on the basis of whether or not God’s Word and His Truth are proclaimed, is in my mind idolatry, placing human creatures in God’s place.
 
Has anyone actually met a thousand Catholic jerks? This site does not represent normative in my opinion.
The first line is a terrific setup for a blistering punch line that I will refrain from using…I’ll just giggle like a schoolgirl under the my breath.

The OP raised a good point though. It reminds me of something a friend once told me. When he was a new believer, someone took issue with either something he said or how he said it. This person’s rebuke consisted of, “If you’re redeemed, then act like it!”

After all, our savior taught that out of the mouth come unclean things that are a reflection of the inner being. So if someone who is not Catholic asks a basic question and is jumped by five or six legitimate jerks versus two people who actually want to discuss the issue at hand, who is shining through?
 
The first line is a terrific setup for a blistering punch line that I will refrain from using…I’ll just giggle like a schoolgirl under the my breath.

The OP raised a good point though. It reminds me of something a friend once told me. When he was a new believer, someone took issue with either something he said or how he said it. This person’s rebuke consisted of, “If you’re redeemed, then act like it!”

After all, our savior taught that out of the mouth come unclean things that are a reflection of the inner being. So if someone who is not Catholic asks a basic question and is jumped by five or six legitimate jerks versus two people who actually want to discuss the issue at hand, who is shining through?
I understand. But I come here with knowledge that it is an apologetic site, not a social site. I expect some will evangelize with love others fight. Some respond to the love others to the more aggressive tactics. There is room for and need of both styles if the world is to be reached.
 
your response does not even address what I said. This is a church of sinners, Jesus came to heal the sick and save the sinners, not to pat the righteous on the head. To make a choice of where to worship based on human personalities of one’s fellow worshippers, rather than on the basis of whether or not God’s Word and His Truth are proclaimed, is in my mind idolatry, placing human creatures in God’s place.
couldn’t agree with you more.
 
Thank you, SpiritMeadow. That is exactly right, That is the functon of the unmoved assemblage point. Once it moves, we see that Consciousness as such is a different and more fundamental aspect of awareness. In the meantime, the unshocked awareness will regiment everything to its own perspective and thus not know its own foundation.

Regarding wolves, that analogy refers, I think, to those who are masquerading in order to convince you that they are similar to you and therefore safe. The dynamic I outlined above is by no means a clothed wolf, it is quite openly hostile to ignorance. Yet it is the most consistent and spontaneously coroborative interdenominational dynamic since, it appears, the dawn of history. It is so, independent of time, place, and circumstance. Hence it is called by some the Perennial Philosophy and is perhaps the most misunderstood and unecessarily maligned way of understanding.

As Saint Pauls says, “The letter kills, but the Spirit gives Life.” 2 Corinthians 3:6 And I wish I could remember exactly the quote from St. Augustine that goes something like (")The religion we now call Christian has existed from the begining of time, and only from the time of Christ began to be called that.(") Even moving one’s perspective a bit in that direction and examining the history of religions, and ceasing to follow the red herring of the historicity debate, the entirity of Christianity has hope of an astonishing revitalization.
 
On this site I often read “Protestants…” I can only say that most Protestants and their churches share this view in my opinion.
I have no idea. I have come to that conclusion, having been Roman Catholic and now Anglican. I seek to see the truth in all faith traditions, Christian and otherwise. There are many shared beliefs overall. Of course, one speaks to me more completely than others. And I suspect that is how God expects.
 
Not naming any names, but I notice quite a few posts and threads in this section which seem to be unnecessarily belligerent and argumentative towards Protestants.

I’m a Catholic, but I’ve been outside the Church more than once in my life. And during those times, when I would venture to Catholic or Christian discussion boards, I’d really be offended and put off by that kind of message.

For me, it was the kind Christians - the ones who had a sense of humor and tried to engage me where I was, rather than argue with me - who “softened me up” and got me in the state of mind where I could seriously reconsider coming home.

What do you think, non-Catholics (and non-Christians)? What kind of Catholic would you prefer to deal with - one who constantly tells you you’re on the road to Hell, or one who walks by your side, chatting and laughing and using “gentle persuasion”?
Thank you for this thread!

When I came to this forum, it was in the spirit of ecumenism, wanting to learn more about what the RC church ACTUALLY teaches, and get to see different issues from other angles.

But the poisonous rhetoric and frustrating debate-techniques used by some posters here (primarily talking about the “Non-Catholic Religions”-forum here) have caused me to take breaks from the forums a couple of times, because I felt myself growing more bitter and defensive.

What I have learned from my time here, is that if I really want an answer to a question without risking verbal assault, I need to ask an RC aqquaintance of mine, who converted from the Lutheran Church. If I ask about any kind of issue that divides RCs and non-RCs, I will most likely have a lot of filth spewed at me, and not get an intelligent response until late in the thread.

But to answer your question: No. If (“if” being the operative word here) I believed that the RC church was the true church, founded by Christ, and infallible in matters of faith and morals, then I’d begin the process of joining immediately - and then subsequently admonish others to post more charitable in order to not keep people who weren’t as “firm” as me, away from the Church.
 
Not naming any names, but I notice quite a few posts and threads in this section which seem to be unnecessarily belligerent and argumentative towards Protestants.

I’m a Catholic, but I’ve been outside the Church more than once in my life. And during those times, when I would venture to Catholic or Christian discussion boards, I’d really be offended and put off by that kind of message.

For me, it was the kind Christians - the ones who had a sense of humor and tried to engage me where I was, rather than argue with me - who “softened me up” and got me in the state of mind where I could seriously reconsider coming home.

What do you think, non-Catholics (and non-Christians)? What kind of Catholic would you prefer to deal with - one who constantly tells you you’re on the road to Hell, or one who walks by your side, chatting and laughing and using “gentle persuasion”?
i never heard a cathloic say you are going to hell now i have hear a lot of baptist say this more then one time
 
If you meet a thousand New Yorkers and every one of them is unpleasant and surly, would you not think that dwelling in New York is the lowest common denominator?

By the same token, if you meet a thousand Catholics and they’re all jerks, wouldn’t the average person look at their church as the lowest common denominator?
NO! The church which was founded by Jesus Christ should matter and that’s it. period.
 
If you meet a thousand New Yorkers and every one of them is unpleasant and surly, would you not think that dwelling in New York is the lowest common denominator?

By the same token, if you meet a thousand Catholics and they’re all jerks, wouldn’t the average person look at their church as the lowest common denominator?
No - for one thing there’s a more sizable than average population of grumps in most every large city. Knowing that, I wouldn’t pick out New York per se as the factor, rather city living in general.

For another, knowing that New York has a population of what, somewhere around the 10 million mark? I’d realise that 1,000 people isn’t a decent cross-section. Thus the starting premise - that New Yorkers are grumpy - could be faulty.

Above all, jerkhood is a complex thing and I would never be so reductionist as to assume that there’s any single factor which jerks have in common. 🤷
 
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