Does Catholic rudeness keep you away from the Church?

[MDK]

…As to what Paul would have wanted, I suspect that is fairly irrelevant. As to Jesus, I suspect he would care more about whether we are about the business of doing his work rather than arguing about how we are to view the real presence at the Eucharist. If we did spend our time in caring for the poor, and so forth, we might find that in th end, a good deal of the rest of this doesn’t matter all that much.

It’s been a pleasure to hear your views Mary. Thank you.

Well, the business Christ calls us to certainly includes the Eucharist, which is the source and summit of Christian life. If we don’t eat His Body and drink His Blood, we have no life in us. How is that irrelevant in any way? Since Christ is really and truly present in the Eucharist, why would it be acceptable to believe falsely in what it means?

On a related note for example, is it acceptable to choose on a whim whether to believe that Christ has two natures or one, as that would be irrelevant?

So let me please ask if God is reality, what does it mean to be out of touch with Who God Is?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

That is a shame. I am catholic, and have never used those words to define anyone. I have never known anyone personally who has ever expressed those feelings about another Christian. What a terrible thing to experience. God’s peace to you.

**
Hi Maryj,

Before I start to tell you the truth let me say that my words are said with love and real concern for the non-Catholic children of God. [That is the best way to describe them] There are many good, holy and God fearing people following corrupt teachings, lies and false beliefs. It isn’t their fault.

I personally do not harbor any hate towards any non Catholic individual. I fought and would fight for their right to be mislead by Satan or money hungry thefts who proclaim themselves to be Christian ministers. But I will not lie and say that they are following Christ. They are not!

Because I do posses true love and real charity for them! I attempt to show them the way to the truth. I pray for their conversion each and every day!

Now about someone being called heretic, apostate or followers of Satan. Sure that might sound bad but the truth is what it is! So why would you never use those words to describe Truths? I am asking this because I and others believe that Jesus demands us to speak the truth.

A “heretic” is someone who Denies the teachings and dogmas of the Catholic church! Protestants are simply heretics by definition! As such, they actually should be proud of being called that!

Now the poster who calls himself Protestant101 isn’t even a Protestant, he is a SDA. That is a cult formed in 1863. They follow a Prophet Ellen G. White, but he will even deny that. I really think he is ashamed. Poor guy! Hiding behind the name of Protesatnt like that was a good thing!

He said someone called him an Apostate. Since he is one, I have no doubt that someone probably did! If he didn’t want to be called that he should not have left his first religion. It is that simple. You do know what an apostate is don’t you? It is someone who is disaffiliated from or abandoned or renounced their formal religion! He had to do that to join the SDA. Ask Protestant101 if he was always a SDA [Hint: He wasn’t] Also all SDA teach and believe that all Catholics are going to Hell because we go to church on Sundays. His cult teaches that we will all have the mark of the Beast. Yea, go ahead, be friends with him dear! Feel sorry for Him! :crying:

You said: " I have never known anyone personally who has ever expressed those feelings about another Christian." Me neither! Never! They are not Christians. A Christian follows the teachings of Jesus Christ! Since they are following false beliefs they actually aren’t.
Remember that before 1517AD, there was One Christian Church “ONE” with several different sects. You do realize that although we have 212 sects, We are still firmly together even today!

While some really good people were attempting to right some terribly wrong practices in the Church, the devil saw this as a ideal change to infect the Christian church and steal souls from the real church.Even though the bible warned of this happening.It worked!

Foolishly, today there are 61,000 groups currently with 1,375 doctrines and dogmas They all partially agree with the CC and all partially disagree with the CC. They all agree that the catholic Church is wrong! Now I ask you who is wrong? The church that has taught only the truth for 2,000 years refusing to compromise the truth and remained faithful to Jesus teachings, or one of the 61,000 counterfeit denominations teaching over 1,375 false doctrines. Remember they aren’t all alike! The title only means “Against The Catholic Church”

You can copy money but if it doesn’t have the backing of the authorized issuer it is counterfeit. It can’t be spent to buy anything!

You can copy Christianity, but if it doesn’t have the backing of the Holy Catholic Church it is counterfeit. It can’t be used to obtain salvation!

So can anyone truly be a Christian who does not partake in Holy Eucharist - the reception of His True Body and True Blood? Only the Catholic Church offers the real communion through apologetic succession. The Eucharist! In it, Jesus is present both Physically and Spiritually. He is “Completely” present. Our Lord and God is present for us to worship and eat as He commanded we must to obtain eternal salvation. Only true believers understand that because the devil keeps his followers blinded to the truth! Many of them say we worship a piece of bread.

Jesus founded ONE holy catholic and apologetic, We are the Body He is the Head.

Who do you think leads the 61,000 groups that started within the past 500 years and grow, divides, and multiplies at the rate of 21 new groups a month? Please, Please, don’t say Jesus.

Who has the authority to interpret the Bible and to teach Jesus’ teachings? Only the church that Jesus founded They teach different doctrines,many against the teachings of the catholic church. Therefore it is evident that they are teaching only their opinions, because Jesus cannot contradicts Himself**.

Jesus gave the commandment to teach the Gospel ONLY to His disciples and He NEVER gave this commandment to the crowds; this clearly proves that not all can teach the Gospel, but only those who have been taught and sent (directly or indirectly) by Jesus.

Catholics are also given Infraction notices and even get banned. Many of them should! We must always speak the truth. To lie and spread hatred isn’t right.

The church started 2,000 years ago was the start of the One Holy Catholic and Apologetic church lead by Pope Benedict XVI.

We have to pray every day for the non-Catholics.

This I believe this I profess!

If anything I said offends anyone because it was a false, I apologize. Otherwise I isn’t my fault.

God Bless

 

[Realcatholicgk]

My relative to whom I refered in another post does not have lack of knowledge. She is fully aware that having sex outside of marriage is a sin and against the churches teachings. She is fully aware that using contraception is against catholic church teaching. She and her boyfriend decided to go against that teaching, deliberately, for reasons of pleasure, gratification and intimacy. They went to church every sunday, received the Holy Eucharist, and carried on as they were. When they saved up enough money, they bought their house and moved in together. 2 years later they got married. In a catholic church.

Thats not lack of knowlege. Thats hypocracy.

**

Hi Guy,

A couple of things~ First: AMEN

Do you know if they have repented? God forgives all sinners! Remember their judgment can only come from God. We can witness, but we should never attempt to predict their future fate! That is God’s Job!

They need your prayers if they haven’t repented. Actually we all need prayers all the time!

God Bless **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

SpiritMeadow:

This is perhaps where we fundamentally disagree. Long before I left the RCC, in fact while I was in process to enter the convent, I studied under various Catholic clergy and religious. It was there that I learned that there was no heirarchy in the Church for some hundreds of years. I don’t believe there was a “Pope” per se for a long time. Much of the “church” statements in the NT are later interpolations added after the fact, not by the original writers. So I believe at any event.

**
Hi Spirit,
Very interesting :compcoff:

**There is a lot of proof of phony bibles. **Click On: More Phony Bibles Made **

As to what Paul would have wanted, I suspect that is fairly irrelevant. As to Jesus, I suspect he would care more about whether we are about the business of doing his work rather than arguing about how we are to view the real presence at the Eucharist. If we did spend our time in caring for the poor, and so forth, we might find that in the end, a good deal of the rest of this doesn’t matter all that much.

**
So I understand you to say that disobeying the Commandments of Jesus in the NT don’t matter very much. That is an interesting viewpoint. Not that the things you said aren’t important but for me obeying Jesus is first in my priorities. Isn’t it funny how Satan can makepeople think following God isn’t really necessary.That it is unimportant. I think that was also the first sin wasn’t it? Or does your Pride not allow you to say?

Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” John 6: 53-59

If you continue to deny His teachings , you do realize He won’t be very happy with you!

God Bless
**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Thanks for expressing yourself. It’s interesting. I can’t yet congratulate you on accurately presenting my beliefs, so we’re not really having a straight discussion yet. For instance, I think you mistake great confidence (which didn’t come easily or quickly) for a closed mind. One seeking all possibilities would consider this as well. When discussing Christianity, what natures do we have to discuss other than flesh or spirit? I have to wonder if you have considered what these were intended to mean.

Another problem is that from a previous post, you told me that I didn’t know I was Catholic until someone told me. That is a little off base as well. Because I was born Catholic, you assume all these things? It doesn’t automatically follow. After college, I studied many other faith systems, attending services, going to their study sessions, attending other workshops… I still study them, only now I’m better able to see error from errorless. I have been to the Middle East, in Saudi Arabia four months and Dubai three months, and Israel for six months and a lot of study. I have continued to learn about other faith systems to determine if where I was was the place to be. The last thing I desire is a false faith system. There was always something or usually numerous things that disqualified other faith systems. I have found no error with the Catholic faith system, and I have examined it very carefully and put it to the test many times. I still have an open mind, but after much study including being there, I am very confident in where I am is what Christ established. The more I study, the more confident I become. There is more to the story, but I hope you understand the idea.

Can I please ask what drives you to assume there is a cognitave problem? Forgive me, but that does seem a bit rude in nature. From reading what you write, I do not see a decent concept given of how I view the world, yet try to box it in.

Personally, I prefer not using the word pretending for these issues, because it is not the most accurate. I have no trouble keeping this in perspective, and don’t need a word trick to make it happen. We can have axioms, hypothesis, etc. However, simply naming them as they are is fine. The intelligent person is able to keep these straight.

I have not seen good evidence that you really understand what the Catholic Church claims, nor that you understand my view of Catholicism. I detect a touch of intellectual arrogance in your post (I hope it’s really not), but we can really only discuss things in humility. Otherwise, it doesn’t work too well.

**
Hi MDK,

YOU Rock! :compcoff:

Myself, I know that they see humility as a weakness! And an endorsement from me isn’t necessary a ‘good’ thing However it is sincere.

God Bless**

 

[maryj]

Hi Maryj,

Before I start to tell you the truth let me say that my words are said with love and real concern for the non-Catholic children of God. [That is the best way to describe them] There are many good, holy and God fearing people following corrupt teachings, lies and false beliefs. It isn’t their fault.

---

**So can anyone truly be a Christian who does not partake in Holy Eucharist - the reception of His True Body and True Blood? Only the Catholic Church offers the real communion through apologetic succession. The Eucharist! In it, Jesus is present both Physically and Spiritually. He is “Completely” present. Our Lord and God is present for us to worship and eat as He commanded we must to obtain eternal salvation. Only true believers understand that because the devil keeps his followers blinded to the truth! Many of them say we worship a piece of bread. **

Jesus founded ONE holy catholic and apologetic, We are the Body He is the Head.

---

---

---

We have to pray every day for the non-Catholics.

**This I believe this I profess! **

**If anything I said offends anyone because it was a false, I apologize. Otherwise I isn’t my fault. **

God Bless

Hi right back at you. You don’t offend me with the truth. I am Catholic, and believe all the same things you have posted. I just don’t use all those words when speaking directly to our seperated bretheren. I found a lot of dismissal in this thread, and I’m wondering if that is true non-C manner or not. I’m not sure, as I’ve never heard anone dismiss St. Paul and Our Lords words and say they don’t really matter much, or that they’ve been added to! That just frankly floors me. I know that we are called to evangalize, but to what extent do we bang people over the head. I really don’t think anything I could say to those statements would make them change their minds. That is in God’s hands, and to why I pray for conversions each and everyday. I did learn something in the discussions in this thread, something that saddened me, but I am no apologist so I have more to study. God Bless

 

[NonCatholic]

**
Hi Maryj,

Before I start to tell you the truth let me say that my words are said with love and real concern for the non-Catholic children of God. [That is the best way to describe them] There are many good, holy and God fearing people following corrupt teachings, lies and false beliefs. It isn’t their fault.

A “heretic” is someone who Denies the teachings and dogmas of the Catholic church! Protestants are simply heretics by definition! As such, they actually should be proud of being called that!

Now the poster who calls himself Protestant101 isn’t even a Protestant, he is a SDA. That is a cult formed in 1863. They follow a Prophet Ellen G. White, but he will even deny that. I really think he is ashamed. Poor guy! Hiding behind the name of Protesatnt like that was a good thing!

You said: " I have never known anyone personally who has ever expressed those feelings about another Christian." Me neither! Never! They are not Christians. A Christian follows the teachings of Jesus Christ! Since they are following false beliefs they actually aren’t.
Remember that before 1517AD, there was One Christian Church “ONE” with several different sects. You do realize that although we have 212 sects, We are still firmly together even today!

While some really good people were attempting to right some terribly wrong practices in the Church, the devil saw this as a ideal change to infect the Christian church and steal souls from the real church.Even though the bible warned of this happening.It worked!

Foolishly, today there are 61,000 groups currently with 1,375 doctrines and dogmas They all partially agree with the CC and all partially disagree with the CC. They all agree that the catholic Church is wrong! Now I ask you who is wrong? The church that has taught only the truth for 2,000 years refusing to compromise the truth and remained faithful to Jesus teachings, or one of the 61,000 counterfeit denominations teaching over 1,375 false doctrines. Remember they aren’t all alike! The title only means “Against The Catholic Church”

You can copy money but if it doesn’t have the backing of the authorized issuer it is counterfeit. It can’t be spent to buy anything!

You can copy Christianity, but if it doesn’t have the backing of the Holy Catholic Church it is counterfeit. It can’t be used to obtain salvation!

So can anyone truly be a Christian who does not partake in Holy Eucharist - the reception of His True Body and True Blood? Only the Catholic Church offers the real communion through apologetic succession. The Eucharist! In it, Jesus is present both Physically and Spiritually. He is “Completely” present. Our Lord and God is present for us to worship and eat as He commanded we must to obtain eternal salvation. Only true believers understand that because the devil keeps his followers blinded to the truth! Many of them say we worship a piece of bread.

Jesus founded ONE holy catholic and apologetic, We are the Body He is the Head.

Who do you think leads the 61,000 groups that started within the past 500 years and grow, divides, and multiplies at the rate of 21 new groups a month? Please, Please, don’t say Jesus.

Who has the authority to interpret the Bible and to teach Jesus’ teachings? Only the church that Jesus founded They teach different doctrines,many against the teachings of the catholic church. Therefore it is evident that they are teaching only their opinions, because Jesus cannot contradicts Himself**.

Jesus gave the commandment to teach the Gospel ONLY to His disciples and He NEVER gave this commandment to the crowds; this clearly proves that not all can teach the Gospel, but only those who have been taught and sent (directly or indirectly) by Jesus.

Catholics are also given Infraction notices and even get banned. Many of them should! We must always speak the truth. To lie and spread hatred isn’t right.

The church started 2,000 years ago was the start of the One Holy Catholic and Apologetic church lead by Pope Benedict XVI.

We have to pray every day for the non-Catholics.

This I believe this I profess!

If anything I said offends anyone because it was a false, I apologize. Otherwise I isn’t my fault.

God Bless

There is no greater love than to tell the truth according to the Bible because Hell is forever. With that said, when you start telling the truth of what Scripture teaches, then people may begin to hear. Your truth has no Scriptural basis and because it is a different gospel; you should take the warning of the Holy Spirit very seriously.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, **disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. ** 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Vicar of Christ?

1 Timothy 4:1-3 1 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by **means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience **as with a branding iron, 3 {men} who forbid marriage {and advocate} abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

Sound familiar? Entire priesthood and above? Warning Warning Warning Listen to the word of God…please.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

There is no greater love than to tell the truth according to the Bible because Hell is forever. With that said, when you start telling the truth of what Scripture teaches, then people may begin to hear. Your truth has no Scriptural basis and because it is a different gospel; you should take the warning of the Holy Spirit very seriously.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, **disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. ** 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Vicar of Christ?

1 Timothy 4:1-3 1 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 {men} who forbid marriage {and advocate} abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

Sound familiar? Entire priesthood and above? Warning Warning Warning Listen to the word of God…please.

**Hi Non,

Isn’t it funny. They are the exact verses the real church uses to explain to Protestants ,who’s groups started 1,500 years after They were written to explain why we know for sure their counterfeit churches are false. The scriptures were written to the cgurch. This warning predicted the Devil taking souls for his counterfeit religions.

Not only do we read the scriptures, we teach them correctly and we eat and drink the body and blood of our savior as He commanded.

Doesn’t God have a sense of humor? Either Him or Satan who clouds your mind and hardens your heart to Jesus truths. A easy way to tell. Jesus doesn’t lie does He. He said one dozen times The bread was his body. Do you nbeieve Jesus? Second test. Jesus loved His Mother, Yes? He gave her to His followers, to care for and honor. God says we must honor our Father and Mother. Do you respect and pray to Mary? ?

As Fr Corapi says :“In the end, forever, you and I will be in Heaven or Hell. Period.”

God Bless you my friend! I hope God grants us both his mercy and eternal salvation.

God Bless **

 

[NonCatholic]

Realcatholicgk:
I have great admiration for the Mary of the Bible, but I would never pray to her for we are instructed to pray to God and no one else. By your own admission that you pray to someone else other than God of the Bible; you ignore God. Since there are two opposing thought here; although Scripture makes it clear. You will have to wait till the end to find out what the truth was.

 

[PJM]

Guyonthestreet;4751047]The problem I have with catholics is the hypocracy. I know many and many catholics.

Ask them about the pope - he is an irrelevancy.

Ask them about abortions - its the womans right.

Ask them about family planning - they all practice it.

Ask them if they own a bible - no.

Ask them when they last read a bible - no idea.

When did they last go to confession - years a go.

Ask them to explain a single tennet of their faith - they cant.

But they cowtow to the priests and turn up at catholic church and think theyre better than everyone else because they are catholics.

I even know a catholic nun who once told me it didnt really matter whether christ actually rose from the dead or not - the point really was that he was risen in peoples hearts :

I am amazed that they call themselves “christians”, much less “catholic”. (small c) They may be neither, and are in need of our prayers. Friend, if these are the only type of catholics you have met, you’ve led a sheltered life. You should hang around with me and my circle of friends!

My dear friend in Christ Jesus our Redeemer

I knew (thought I did) that just as their are “no two snowflakes exactly alike,” so too is each of God’s Created Humanity, inique and special.

Thanks to your post, I have discovered that “I’m the only Catholic in the entire world” that is the polar opposite of all of the points you made. :tsktsk: (And are sooooo sadly correct on the points you raise about non-practcing catholics.):crying: But every Catholic:nope:

May I suggest (as I have with you previously) that your post might have greater impact, with someting closer to the entire truth:shrug:

And again, are the Israelies the only guilty party? Nope, afraid not. That too tears at my heart.

Seek charity and forgiveness in our own hearts, and it will be easier to see it in others

 

[theistgal]

Not that I’m a quitter or anything, but since my thread seems to have evolved into something I didn’t originally intend, I’m going to sit out the rest of it. Have fun!

 

[Bill_Pick]

I have great admiration for the Mary of the Bible, but I would never pray to her for we are instructed to pray to God and no one else. By your own admission that you pray to someone else other than God of the Bible; you ignore God. Since there are two opposing thought here; although Scripture makes it clear. You will have to wait till the end to find out what the truth was.

have you never heard of interecssory prayer ;
Intercessory Prayer of Saints
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us
2Thess 1:11 - we always pray for you
2Thess 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us
Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all the saints & for me
Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
Ps 148 - David calls upon angels
Zech 1:12 – angel intercedes for Jerusalem
Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels
Rev 5:8 – those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
*Saints dead, prayer is necromancy (Dt 18:10-11)
Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead
Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God
2Macc 15:7-16 – the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews
Jas 5:16 Prayers of righteous man
1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall understand fully
1 John 4: 20-21 whoever loves God must love his brother
1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ’s Body cannot say to other parts, “I do not need you”.

or are you saying mary is not in heaven

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

have you never heard of interecssory prayer ;
Intercessory Prayer of Saints
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us
2Thess 1:11 - we always pray for you
2Thess 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us
Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all the saints & for me
Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
Ps 148 - David calls upon angels
Zech 1:12 – angel intercedes for Jerusalem
Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels
Rev 5:8 – those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
*Saints dead, prayer is necromancy (Dt 18:10-11)
Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead
Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God
2Macc 15:7-16 – the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews
Jas 5:16 Prayers of righteous man
1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall understand fully
1 John 4: 20-21 whoever loves God must love his brother
1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ’s Body cannot say to other parts, “I do not need you”.

or are you saying mary is not in heaven

Rom 15:30 - I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me.
Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. ; Brothers, pray for us.
2Thess 1:11 - With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.
2Thess 3:1 - Finally, brothers, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you.
Eph 6:18-19 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel
Ps 148 - Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his heavenly hosts. (Unless you’re going to say David was praying to the sun and moon, he wasn’t praying to angels)
Zech 1:12 – Then the angel of the LORD said, “LORD Almighty, how long will you withhold mercy from Jerusalem and from the towns of Judah, which you have been angry with these seventy years?”
Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels (who knows what “like angels” refers to?)
Rev 5:8 – And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. (saints in heaven or saints on earth? Psalms, Acts, and the epistles clearly point to “saints” referring to believers on earth).
Jas 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

There’s nothing in here that would refute the idea of intercessory prayer. There’s also nothing that points to a precedent of a man on earth praying for someone who has died to intercede for him.

I also have no idea where you derive that accusation of claiming that Mary is not in Heaven from.

 

[NonCatholic]

have you never heard of interecssory prayer ;
Intercessory Prayer of Saints
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us
2Thess 1:11 - we always pray for you
2Thess 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us
Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all the saints & for me
Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
Ps 148 - David calls upon angels
Zech 1:12 – angel intercedes for Jerusalem
Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels
Rev 5:8 – those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
*Saints dead, prayer is necromancy (Dt 18:10-11)
Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead
Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God
2Macc 15:7-16 – the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews
Jas 5:16 Prayers of righteous man
1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall understand fully
1 John 4: 20-21 whoever loves God must love his brother
1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ’s Body cannot say to other parts, “I do not need you”.

or are you saying mary is not in heaven

The original poster said they pray “TO” Mary of the Catholic Church. I have never prayed to anyone other than God. The people I ask to pray on my behalf are alive on earth and they pray to God alone. There is no example of any Apostle or saint praying to… or for the dead on earth or the living in heaven; except Jesus. If you can, please provide an example.

 

[NonCatholic]

Rom 15:30 - I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me.
Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. ; Brothers, pray for us.
2Thess 1:11 - With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.
2Thess 3:1 - Finally, brothers, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you.
Eph 6:18-19 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel
Ps 148 - Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his heavenly hosts. (Unless you’re going to say David was praying to the sun and moon, he wasn’t praying to angels)
Zech 1:12 – Then the angel of the LORD said, “LORD Almighty, how long will you withhold mercy from Jerusalem and from the towns of Judah, which you have been angry with these seventy years?”
Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels (who knows what “like angels” refers to?)
Rev 5:8 – And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. (saints in heaven or saints on earth? Psalms, Acts, and the epistles clearly point to “saints” referring to believers on earth).
Jas 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

There’s nothing in here that would refute the idea of intercessory prayer. There’s also nothing that points to a precedent of a man on earth praying for someone who has died to intercede for him.

I also have no idea where you derive that accusation of claiming that Mary is not in Heaven from.

Thanks! It is, as you probably know, not the same Mary, but that has already been proven.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

The original poster said they pray “TO” Mary of the Catholic Church. I have never prayed to anyone other than God. The people I ask to pray on my behalf are alive on earth and they pray to God alone. There is no example of any Apostle or saint praying to… or for the dead on earth or the living in heaven; except Jesus. If you can, please provide an example.

**Hi Non,
Well I see you are still using false logic. The same stuff you did on other threads. There is no proof that any Alostle or saint had bowel movements. Yet we are sure they did. I know of many saints praying to and for the dead, but not in scripture. It isn’t about them It is about Jesus and His real church and the need to obey His law. You silly goose! The people we pray to are alive in heaven, much closer to God then we are at the present time.Being a member of the real church, I actually get Jesus to become a part of my body as I become a part of His plan for my redemption. How cool is that? Can’t get more closer than to have you Lord and Savior inside your body as He said He would be if you truely believe Him, rather than Him just hanging around at some group’s musical festival or pot luck!

Anyway here are a few samples for you: You have been provided many of them before but that Satan clouds your mind and doesn’t allow you to see! God Gless you anyway:

Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family (“Catholic”) in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who have gone to heaven before us are not a different family. We are one and the same family. This is why, in the Apostles Creed, we profess a belief in the “communion of saints.” There cannot be a “communion” if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another.

Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23-32; Col. 1:18,24 - this family is in Jesus Christ, the head of the body, which is the Church.

1 Cor. 12:12,27; Rom. 12:5; Col. 3:15; Eph. 4:4 - we are the members of the one body of Christ, supernaturally linked together by our partaking of the Eucharist.

Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.

Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with “deceased” Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.

Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.

Luke 15:7,10 – if the angels and saints experience joy in heaven over our repentance, then they are still connected to us and are aware of our behavior.

John 15:1-6 - Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. The good branches are not cut off at death. They are alive in heaven.

1 Cor. 4:9 – because we can become a spectacle not only to men, but to angels as well, this indicates that angels are aware of our earthly activity. Those in heaven are connected to those on earth.

1 Cor. 12:26 - when one member suffers, all suffer. When one is honored, all rejoice. We are in this together as one family.

1 Cor 13:12; 1 John 3:2 - now we see in a mirror dimly, but in heaven we see face to face. The saints are more alive than we are!

Heb. 12:1: we are surrounded by a great glory cloud (shekinah) of witnesses. The “cloud of witnesses” refers to the saints who are not only watching us from above but cheering us on in our race to heaven.

1 Peter 2:9; Rev. 20:6 - we are a royal family of priests by virtue of baptism. We as priests intercede on behalf of each other.

2 Peter 1:4 - since God is the eternal family and we are His children, we are partakers of His divine nature as a united family.

1 Cor. 1:2; Rom. 1:7 - we are called to be saints. Saints refer to both those on earth and in heaven who are in Christ. Proof:

Acts 9:13,32,41; 26:10; 1 Cor. 6:1-2; 14:33; 2 Cor. 1:1; 8:4; 9:1-2; 13:13; Rom. 8:27; 12:23; 15:25,26, 31; 16:2,15; Eph. 1:1,15,18; 3:8; 5:3; 6:18; Phil. 1:1; 4:22; Col 1:2,4,26; 1 Tm 5:10; Philemon 1:5,7; Heb. 6:10; 13:24; Jude 1:3; Rev. 11:18; 13:7; 14:12; 16:6; 17:6;18:20,24; Rev 19:8; 20:9 - in these verses, we see that Christians still living on earth are called “saints.”

Matt. 27:52; Eph. 2:19; 3:18; Col. 1:12; 2 Thess. 1:10; Rev. 5:8; 8:3-4; 11:18; 13:10 - in these verses, we also see that “saints” also refer to those in heaven who united with us.

Dan. 4:13,23; 8:23 – we also see that the angels in heaven are also called “saints.” The same Hebrew word “qaddiysh” (holy one) is applied to both humans and angels in heaven. Hence, there are angel saints in heaven and human saints in heaven and on earth. Loving beings (whether angels or saints) are concerned for other beings, and prayer is the spiritual way of expressing that love.

And the dance goes on, Chase your tail, my foolish friend!

God Bless**.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Thanks! It is, as you probably know, not the same Mary, but that has already been proven.

**
Hi Non,

Oh, it has? When? By whom? You do of course realize that only the Catholic church is the authorized teacher and authority as far as Christianity is concerned don’t you? All other groups are counterfeit, making them ‘illegal’ in the eyes of God and His most precious son, Our lord and savior Jesus the Christ. He commanded us to eat His body and drink His blood. Then as He was dying for our sins He gave His Mother to His church to provide a mother’s love to His children! As children of God ,we must honor our Mother as commanded. You can’t say you follow Jesus and go in an opposite direction. That would be following Satan and we know where that will lead!

god Bless**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Not that I’m a quitter or anything, but since my thread seems to have evolved into something I didn’t originally intend, I’m going to sit out the rest of it. Have fun!

**
Hi Theist,

You are a quitter Gal! It is your thread “control” it, don’t abandon it. I do realize that is the Protestant thing to do, leave rather then staying and making corrections. But like in that case you are abandoning the basis of your thread. Use the Catholic chuirch as a example. "Invite them people to “stay” and be obediant to yur OP or tell them to Go to Hell! (leaving the Catholic church like non-catholic did almost assures that because of what Jesus said in the bible. but he rather worry anout one verse and misinterpet it then comply with Jesus’ dozen yes 12 commands to eat His Body. **

 

[Guyonthestreet]

I am amazed that they call themselves “christians”, much less “catholic”. (small c) They may be neither, and are in need of our prayers. Friend, if these are the only type of catholics you have met, you’ve led a sheltered life. You should hang around with me and my circle of friends!

My dear friend in Christ Jesus our Redeemer

I knew (thought I did) that just as their are “no two snowflakes exactly alike,” so too is each of God’s Created Humanity, inique and special.

Thanks to your post, I have discovered that “I’m the only Catholic in the entire world” that is the polar opposite of all of the points you made. :tsktsk: (And are sooooo sadly correct on the points you raise about non-practcing catholics.):crying: But every Catholic:nope:

May I suggest (as I have with you previously) that your post might have greater impact, with someting closer to the entire truth:shrug:

And again, are the Israelies the only guilty party? Nope, afraid not. That too tears at my heart.

Seek charity and forgiveness in our own hearts, and it will be easier to see it in others

Really? Look at what I actually said. I said I know** many many ** catholics and I talked about my relatives. Im real close to my relatives. I know them. Im real close to the many many catholics I know. I know them.

I did not extend this to every catholic in the world. I can think of at least ONE catholic that wouldnt fit what I described above but then I dont KNOW him, so who knows What I said is true of the catholics I know. When I said the problem I have **with catholics **is the hypocracy, I thought it would have been clear from what followed was I was refering to the catholics I know.

The point was also made about forgiveness. As to their forgiveness that is strictly between them and God. I dont go there. And not only do I know them, they are my friends and relatives. I like to keep it that way.

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

**
Hi Non,

Oh, it has? When? By whom? You do of course realize that only the Catholic church is the authorized teacher and authority as far as Christianity is concerned don’t you? All other groups are counterfeit, making them ‘illegal’ in the eyes of God and His most precious son, Our lord and savior Jesus the Christ. He commanded us to eat His body and drink His blood. Then as He was dying for our sins He gave His Mother to His church to provide a mother’s love to His children! As children of God ,we must honor our Mother as commanded. You can’t say you follow Jesus and go in an opposite direction. That would be following Satan and we know where that will lead!

god Bless**

**
Hi Theist,

You are a quitter Gal! It is your thread “control” it, don’t abandon it. I do realize that is the Protestant thing to do, leave rather then staying and making corrections. But like in that case you are abandoning the basis of your thread. Use the Catholic chuirch as a example. "Invite them people to “stay” and be obediant to yur OP or tell them to Go to Hell! (leaving the Catholic church like non-catholic did almost assures that because of what Jesus said in the bible. but he rather worry anout one verse and misinterpet it then comply with Jesus’ dozen yes 12 commands to eat His Body. **

For the creator of this thread, I believe you now have your answer.