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kage_ar
Guest
Really? That will be news to my married associate pastor.
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s4angel
Guest
I do not believe that celibacy causes preversion or even a person to sin. Being celibate is not just obstaining from sexual relations but also includes celibacy of the mind. Is a celibate person tempted? Yes for any time you give something up for the lord satan will tempt you to draw you away from the lord, I am but a simple person so I hope that you can understand what I am trying to say.
If a person takes a vow of celibacy but does not practice celibacy of the mind as well is that not a chink in the armor? Will satan not enter through that chink? I believe that is what is called putting on the armour of Christ. As for the church requiring a priest to be celibate a person who is considering that particular calling needs to take that into consideration and put on the whole garment not just the parts that please him. As St. Paul says that if you can not control your lusts then it is better for you to be married so as not to sin. There are plenty of places for those in the church who are called to marraige as for those who are called to be celibate.
Celebacy does not lead to child molestation, homosexuality or immoral behaviour rather mans inability or refusal to put away lustful thoughts and lustful actions. I have heard the argument that as a social animal humans need sexual gratification that is simply not true a person wants sexual gratification there is a big difference between needs and wants the trick is, is to know the difference.
When my son was born I had him baptised though at the time I was not obediant to the church or even secretly to God but I was attempting to save his life. The priest was young and he was so innocent I will never forget him not because of the trauma of my sons death but because of the innocence and love I felt from him at that time. I also had a deacon who prayed with me the night before my son was born. he was married with children, I will always love this man for his charity and his compassion. One was called to celibacy one to be married but both worked for Christ though with different titles.
If a person takes a vow of celibacy but does not practice celibacy of the mind as well is that not a chink in the armor? Will satan not enter through that chink? I believe that is what is called putting on the armour of Christ. As for the church requiring a priest to be celibate a person who is considering that particular calling needs to take that into consideration and put on the whole garment not just the parts that please him. As St. Paul says that if you can not control your lusts then it is better for you to be married so as not to sin. There are plenty of places for those in the church who are called to marraige as for those who are called to be celibate.
Celebacy does not lead to child molestation, homosexuality or immoral behaviour rather mans inability or refusal to put away lustful thoughts and lustful actions. I have heard the argument that as a social animal humans need sexual gratification that is simply not true a person wants sexual gratification there is a big difference between needs and wants the trick is, is to know the difference.
When my son was born I had him baptised though at the time I was not obediant to the church or even secretly to God but I was attempting to save his life. The priest was young and he was so innocent I will never forget him not because of the trauma of my sons death but because of the innocence and love I felt from him at that time. I also had a deacon who prayed with me the night before my son was born. he was married with children, I will always love this man for his charity and his compassion. One was called to celibacy one to be married but both worked for Christ though with different titles.
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mandateman
Guest
The church recognises three vocations religious, married, and single life. A person has enough trouble being very good in one vocation. If priests were married they would be forced to make choice between their families and their priesthood. Sometimes to the detriment of the community. I have grown up with the children of non catholic clergy and they were at least as messed up as everyone else, sometimes more.
We have more then one sect in our church and in the eastern churches they allow married clergy and these same problems are evident I have spoken with eastern rite priests who are married and there is enough difficulties in marriage that the two are not always favorablably mixed. Either the family is made to suffer or their parishoners.
We have more then one sect in our church and in the eastern churches they allow married clergy and these same problems are evident I have spoken with eastern rite priests who are married and there is enough difficulties in marriage that the two are not always favorablably mixed. Either the family is made to suffer or their parishoners.
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distracted
Guest
i still say you came on too strong but i have had the same problem with people who argue, argue, argue and aren’t so nice to Catholics here @ CAF…
it does get annoying but i always try to keep in mind that there was a time when i myself didn’t know the Faith… and you can’t fault someone for being ignorant…
yes, some who claim to be ignorant are not terribly ignorant, esp those who read a lot of posts @ CAF and should now know the faith better than (most) Catholics…
but we just never know someone’s true condtion… and hostility drives them away. I only said something because i am concerned about You, not just other poster… didn’t want you to spend 20 yrs in Purgatory for your dealings w/ him/her.
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distracted
Guest
thanks for the uplifting post…
i liked what you said but i particularly liked the picture of the children!!!
it brought back happy memories of childhood
and just made my day brighter… (haven’t been having the best day…
)celibacy doesn’t lead to perversion anymore than … say hearing cats mating outside in the night causes you to go find someone to fornicate with…
it is rather … uh…hate to use this word, but “unnatural” to always say NO to that desire… I ought to know because i have been alone for many, many years…
But i know how sin separates me from Christ…
so i avoid impurity like i would avoid Satan himself…& the strange thing is, i feel separated from JESUS ENOUHG as it is, without even committing any serious sin… Weird…
I know this becaue sometimes whne i start to pray the Rosary or spend time withJesus @ the Blessed Sacramnet, i can FEEL how … um… how do i say it?? i can feel how my close-ness to Him has diminished… because of such things as spending too much time around people… and most people i spend time around are* not* into Jesus 1/2 as much as i am…(my opinion based on their behaviro…) and so, their not-so-Christ-like ways affect my mind & heart and soul… and being a fallen, weak, clue-less person, i always tend to allow those peple to affect me some kind of way or other, even though in my head i know i should totaaly ignore / shut out their ungodly words & ways… As they say:
the longest journey you will ever take is the one between your head & your heart.
thanks.
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distracted
Guest
yes and some priests get around this by fornicating w/ their girlfriends. Thye want to have their cake and eat it too…
just another thing that shows how weak and stupid some females are. If a man doesn’t love you enough to become laicized & marry you in the Church on the up-and-up… why would you fornicate with him, much less jeopardize your etneral destiny???
but many women are just that stupid… Sorry, i just had to get that out of my system…
if it weren’t for all the loose women in the world (and loose men also) we wouldn’t be having a lot of the problems we are having. But oh well… Jesus said that the road is narrow… and there are few who find it.
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distracted
Guest
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I don’t know the answer to this question, but I do wonder why God saw Adam and reflected after giving him animals as companions, it occured to him that it “was not good for man to be alone”.
Perhaps the real perversion is that most people don’t see their parish priest as their spiritual father, and don’t treat him as such. Since his only children are the ones in the parish, it could be a very hard life if it is only at Mass/sacraments and emergencies that he sees them. Maybe loved priests never go the route of perversion? I don’t know.
I also noticed that it has been repeated here over and over that priests must be celibate. May I point out gently that this is a discipline that is strictly adhered to in the Latin Rite?
There are other eastern rites that allow married priests. There are also converts that are allowed entrance that were already married I believe.
To me, the question really is unanswerable without statistics and facts. So far no one has supplied enough data to reach any conclusion on the matter.
Perhaps the real perversion is that most people don’t see their parish priest as their spiritual father, and don’t treat him as such. Since his only children are the ones in the parish, it could be a very hard life if it is only at Mass/sacraments and emergencies that he sees them. Maybe loved priests never go the route of perversion? I don’t know.
I also noticed that it has been repeated here over and over that priests must be celibate. May I point out gently that this is a discipline that is strictly adhered to in the Latin Rite?
There are other eastern rites that allow married priests. There are also converts that are allowed entrance that were already married I believe.
To me, the question really is unanswerable without statistics and facts. So far no one has supplied enough data to reach any conclusion on the matter.
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FMLJoliecouer
Guest
.
You say Paul’s words mean that a man can’t be a bishop unless he’s married. WHOOPS! You’'ve got a teesny problem. Paul is an apostle. What’s an apostle? A special version of a bishop. Where’s Paul’s wife?
(she doesn’t exist.) I guess Scripture doesn’t require a bishop to have a wife after all, does it?
Very well said…
You say Paul’s words mean that a man can’t be a bishop unless he’s married. WHOOPS! You’'ve got a teesny problem. Paul is an apostle. What’s an apostle? A special version of a bishop. Where’s Paul’s wife?
(she doesn’t exist.) I guess Scripture doesn’t require a bishop to have a wife after all, does it?Very well said…
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Bailey2
Guest
does celibacy lead to perversion & why don’t protestants have that vow?
No celibacy does not lead to perversion and protestants do not have a tradition of celibacy because they are not Catholic.
No celibacy does not lead to perversion and protestants do not have a tradition of celibacy because they are not Catholic.
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neophyte
Guest
Do you think that you’d become a pervert if you were single for long enough, ?
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TLM08
Guest
I speak of the Ryan commission report released this past May on sexual and physical abuse in the form of ritualistic beatings and rapes of literally thousands of children committed by “celibate” Christian Brothers, priest and nuns in Roman Catholic reform schools and orphanages in Ireland from the 1930s through the 1990s and the institutional cover up of these crimes.
The American media has largely ignored this due to all of the recent debate about health care reform and the war in Afghanistan.
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JustaServant
Guest
With all due respect, the question is illogical.
Does not owning a gun lead to me being a murder victim?
Does being a meat eater and not a vegeterian mean I will be obese?
I know you mean well with the question. You are probably reacting to a statement often given by fundamentalists.
And they are not exactly known for logical argruments.
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TLM08
Guest
Celibacy by itself does not lead to perversion. But when celibacy is enforced within a false religious system the desires of flesh will almost always win. Catholic writer Randy Engel’s comprehensive work on this topic along with recent revelations of sexual abuse, rape and torture of children in over 100 Catholic run orphanages and reform schools in Ireland over the last 60 years demonstrate.
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manualman
Guest
Can you provide the Engel citation where the association is proven between celibacy and perversion?
Or are you now abusing Engel and pretending your ideas are his?
Try this one on: Humans are ALL sinful. All catholics are human. Thus, all catholics are sinful too. The perversion you so rightly are converned about is not a feature of catholicism, it is a feature of fallen human nature. Which is why married protestant ministers commit sexual abuse about as often as catholic priests.
Perhaps you think that proves ALL christianity is a false and made up religion???
Or perhaps you just haven’t followed your logic to its conclusion.
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aicirt
Guest
Majority of people become divorced, and widowed and no longer have sex. They are not perverts, and I include all religions, Catholics and whatever you are. Others spend their lives with ill spouses and remain faithful even after the sexual part of the marriage has ended. They don’t go out abusing children nor do many of the Catholic religious.
So if celibacy is “forced” in a religion, I would prefer to say required, then one knows the religion is false?
Your religion wants married ministers so, therefore, it is the true religion but we all know ministers have divorced, committed adultery, fornicated,sexually abused kids, became alcholics, and in some cases committed murder over the last 1500 years. How could that happen when they can have sex? How come they weren’t protected from lust and sin and perversions?
You’re concerned about desires of the flesh? I’m shocked that some Protestant sects ALLOW openly gay ministers, and gay ministers.
When our priests break their vow of celibacy they sin because they broke their vows. But the Catholic Church isn’t making sin into a virtue.
insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm
A jury awarded $37 million to the victims of Gerald Patrick Thomas, Lutheran Minister.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Yeah…right. So you blame something that Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself preached for perversion? And call it “false religion”? That, sir, is great load of bunk.
I have dealt with this issue in an article on my blog called, “Priestly celibacy is unBiblical. NOT!”
As for the allegations that these problems are unique to Catholic clergy. That is also a misrepresentation worthy of scorn. Look at these sites and articles documenting this problem among non-Catholic clergy. StopBaptistPredators.org and there is further documented evidence from an external non-biased source.
Child sex abuse by Protestant clergy may exceed abuse by Catholic priests
Associated Press Report >
See also comparison analysis > and data >
So…not only are you wrong Biblically, but you ignore the same issue among n-C clergy while bashing the Catholic faith with polemics and propaganda.
Shame on you.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
This issue has been hashed and rehashed again and again here and since nothing new and worthwhile has been presented this thread is now closed.
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