Does concupiscence affect the mind? Am I being scrupulous?

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JosephDColeman

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I’m a recent convert to Catholicism, but I was a Protestant for years before that. I never had to address this as a Protestant, mainly because I assumed all of my sins were forgiven and there was no loss of salvation…however, now that I’m trying to grow closer to God and make Him the center of my life I have realised how sinful my thoughts are by default.

For example, when I am at work and someone is blocking an area I have to get to my first thought is, “move!” Or if I’m walking home from work and someone honks at me just to be annoying my first thought is what I would do if I caught them stopped up the road to confront them in an aggressive way. When I realise my mind is doing this I do all I can to change my mindset, but I feel bad that it seems to be my default mindset and often wonder if I have the Holy Spirit or even if Christ looks at me as wicked because I’m like this. I’m always worried that I’m mortally sinning by having these violent thoughts because I entertain them but it’s not like I can look at a thought before I have it and decide if I should get caught in it or not. Usually I realize, “that’s a bad way to think” and try to correct my perspective but that’s after I realize I have been stuck in a thought.

Is the mind part of the “sinful flesh” we war against? Am I sinning when I have these thoughts by default and then realize it after the fact? My whole day is haunted because it’s like I’m watching how evil my mindset is and I can’t force it to change. Reading “The Story of a Soul” was hard on me because I feel like St. Therese Lisieux had a mind so naturally different than mine.

I’m sorry for writing so much.
 
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JosephDColeman said:
Am I being scrupulous?
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You’re on your way to it, yes. You closing your post with an apology for its length is a strong indication of that. See, your post wasn’t particularly long at all, but even if it was 10,000 words, there is absolutely no need to apologize for the length of a post. If some other forum member doesn’t like long posts, he’s free to ignore your stuff, in the same way that you’re free to post short or long messages as you see fit.

As for your “violent” thoughts, thinking “move!” when someone won’t move is simply impatience, not violence. Impatience is usually not ideal, but it isn’t a sin either. It can’t be, because it isn’t an act but rather an unharmonious state of mind. States of mind (emotion, feelings) that overwhelm you (i.e. are involuntary) are not sins. (Of course if you invite and/or indulge them, they are.)

Furthermore, impatience is typical of modern man, so don’t be too hard on yourself. As you mature spiritually, you’ll change, but this will be a slow process of years and even decades. You can’t become patient by obsessing about your lack of patience, nor by attempting to force yourself to be patient. Just don’t knock the other guy out, okay?

PS. Note that the word “patient” also refers to someone undergoing treatment in a hospital. Such a patient submits himself to being treated by doctors; he does not attempt to fix himself. In the same way, the Christian Path is a path of submitting to God’s Treatment. It is not a path of you trying to fix yourself so as to please God.
 
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I get confused because in Protestantism it was, “Every one is depraved but we are seen as clean because when God looks at us He sees Christ.” However, from what I understand about Catholic theology it would be more accurate to say justification changes us and actually makes us righteous…yet our “flesh” is still stained by the effects of original sin so it wars against us. But if I’m changed I would think my involuntary thoughts would change since they arise from who I am (the new me) rather than the body. Unless the mind is also stained by original sin as well it would seem that I’m not a new creation because I’m thinking the same way I used to…so then I start to despair about if I’m actually saved or not.
 
JosephDColeman said:
if I’m changed I would think my involuntary thoughts would change
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They will change, but that takes time, in most cases a long time. It’s gradual. The new you is a seed that has only just started to bud.
JosephDColeman said:
Unless the mind is also stained by original sin as well
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It certainly is, which is why I’m no fan of the phrase “at war with the flesh”. We’re at war with the entire “old man”, not with his physical body. (Cf. Ephesians 6:12).
JosephDColeman said:
in Protestantism it was, “Every one is depraved but we are seen as clean because when God looks at us He sees Christ.”
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Yes, in most forms of Protestantism, holiness is imputed as a reward for belief in Christ’s Sacrifice, but it is not actually attained. In fact some Protestant denominations deny the possibility of attaining holiness. In Catholicism, holiness must actually be attained, or at least approached, over the course of one’s lifetime. Belief in Christ is the starting point and driving force that makes this gradual transformation from sinner to saint possible. For Catholics therefore, belief in Christ is not nominal, but operational. His Living Presence here and now is what saves you. That’s also why it’s better to say “I’m being saved (by Christ)” than to say “I am saved.” It’s also more modest, and modesty is a virtue.
 
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JosephDColeman said:
I would think my involuntary thoughts would change since they arise from who I am (the new me) rather than the body.
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Conversion is a lifelong process.
You are not – not – responsible for every thought you have.
If a thought arises involuntarily, it will pass if you do not hold onto it. And it my take more than two or five or ten seconds to pass. But it will.
You are not sinning if you do not hold onto it and make it a part of your day/life.
Three conditions must be met for a sin to be considered “mortal” (“mortal” because the soul “dies”):
  • it must be a grave sin
  • your will must be consenting
  • you must know the thing is a sin
Cannot be mortal of even one is missing.
You also seem to be using a lot of descriptions and words like “a new creation” and “changed.”
I would say that kind of language may indicate a belief that a shaft of light struck you and spirtually/metaphysically altered your soul in a sci-fi kind of way…
That didn’t and doesn’t happen.
You are connected to the cross now and called to struggle for Christ and love your neighbor as yourself. And you will fail in this from time to time but a saint is just a sinner who keeps trying.
This struggle you are describing means to me you want to please God. I would say the despair you feel is not healthy, though, and could lead to disillusionment. But struggling against sinfulness is also what we are called to do. Trusting in God’s mercy is hard and you need to ease up on yourself and never be discouraged.

I am personally a revert to the Faith and lived as a committed atheist for over ten years. Your words resonate with me. But you have to ease up on yourself.
 
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JosephDColeman said:
For example, when I am at work and someone is blocking an area I have to get to my first thought is, “move!” Or if I’m walking home from work and someone honks at me just to be annoying my first thought is what I would do if I caught them stopped up the road to confront them in an aggressive way.
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I don’t think this is so much sinfullness, as it is an anger issue. It sounds like you have some unresolved anger in your life. That is very human, and you aren’t alone. What you do with it, is what matters. Have you considered seeking out some counseling to help figure out where this anger comes from and a better way to manage it?

God made us the way we are, and that includes having the emotion of anger at times. Learning how to manage it, is probably your best bet. That means understanding its origin. Once you understand it, often times it will go away. By feeling you are sinning, you may just be making the problem worse. Bad feelings, compounded by guilt of those feelings doesn’t usually help the average person get to a healthier place in life.

Just my two cents.
 
The short answer about the mind and flesh is that Paul addressed his nature metaphorically. I would say there isn’t much distinction practically at this point in your life to matter.
In terms of CATHOLOCISM the catechism has sections dealing with conscience. Reading them won’t solve your issues but they will help to sort you out in terms of your question.
Take a look at " Divine Indwelling"
In CATHOLOCISM they talk about a “well formed conscience” which evolves via good Christian living and practice. Prayer. And God’s gift of Grace. And is exemplified in it’s fullest form in Saint Therese.
You describe anger issues that for you will be difficult to self diagnose and address because you are trying to address your issues with a mind that you describe as having these issues.( They seem normal or natural to you). Metaphorically again, long ago someone might have described them as" my demons". This idea is useful in terms of understanding the difficulty of self diagnosing.
You can see your priest. You can also see a professional which can help get you from A to B where you want to go.
The thought patterns you describe take time to develope. Perhaps yours began as far back as childhood. They can be addressed if that is something you want.
 
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Mindfulness meditation- secular mindfulness meditation, not religious meditation or yoga, may help.
Simple breathing exercises with phone apps like the Calm app are great.
Letting these thots pass is key.
I live in a big city and struggle with feeling tossed around a lot. I feel anger and impatience daily but try to mitigate the worst of it then move on and JOKE about it. That really helps.
 
Pray for inner peace that this world cannot give. Conquering anger is a process, be patient.
 
Read the Saint Ambrose prayer before Mass –

Lord Jesus Christ,
I approach your banquet table in fear and trembling,
for I am a sinner,
and dare not rely on my own worth,
but only on your goodness and mercy.
I am defiled by many sins in body and soul,
and by my unguarded thoughts and words.
Gracious God of majesty and awe,
I seek your protection,
I look for your healing.
Poor troubled sinner that I am,
I appeal to you, the fountain of all mercy.
I cannot bear your judgment,
but I trust in your salvation.
Lord, I show my wounds to you and uncover my shame before you.
I know my sins are many and great,
and they fill me with fear,
but I hope in your mercies,
for they cannot be numbered.
Lord Jesus Christ, eternal king, God and man,
crucified for mankind,
look upon me with mercy and hear my prayer,
for I trust in you.
Have mercy on me,
full of sorrow and sin,
for the depth of your compassion never ends.
Praise to you, saving sacrfice,
offered on the wood of the cross for me and for all mankind.
Praise to the noble and precious blood,
flowing from the wounds of the my crucified Lord Jesus Christ and washing away the sins of the whole world.
Remember, Lord your creature,
whom you have redeemed with your blood;
I repent my sins,
and I long to put right what I have done. Merciful Father, take away all my offenses and sins;
purify me in body and soul,
and make me worthy to taste the holy of holies.
May your body and blood,
which I intend to receive, although I am unworthy,
be for me the remission of my sins,
the washing away of my guilt,
the end of my evil thoughts,
and the rebirth of my better instincts.
May it incite me to do the works pleasing to you and profitable to my health in body and soul,
and be a firm defense against the wiles of my enemies. Amen.
 
JosephDColeman said:
I have realised how sinful my thoughts are by default.
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The thoughts themselves are temptations. Sin is willful delectation in a disordered (sinful) thought, carried out or not in sinful act or omission. There is no sin that is not willful.
 
QwertyGirl said:
Have you considered seeking out some counseling to help figure out where this anger comes from and a better way to manage it?
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Yes, I’ve actually got appointments set up already. I’ve been to a lot of counseling and it does seem to help.
 
Is there a way to tell if there is no more sanctifying grace in you? I think my fear had a lot to do with the fact that mortal sin takes away grace…but if you were in mortal sin would you still be trying to please God or does it take away that as well?
 
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