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Per_Crucem
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Because there’s 60 million of you in the U.S., about 5 or 6 million of us. They would condemn us. They just don’t know enough.
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Per_Crucem
Guest
Depends on whether they’re normal, or Uberdox
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protestantinca
Guest
You haven’t talked to many Lutherans then
. In fact, and I learned this recently, Lutheranism seems to be logic next station for Catholics who are unsatisfied with their church, whether it’s because they perceive the Catholic Church is not adapting to the modern times (in which case they love ELCA churches) or because they perceive the contrary, namely, that the popes have not measured up to what is expected from them, in which case they find the LCMS or WELS churches very appealing.
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Thomas1981
Guest
Interesting to see so many Orthodox believers on this site. I have to confess I know little about Orthodoxy. I’m interested in how you got interested in this Church, unless you are cradle Orthodox? The reason I’m asking is that most Orthodox Churches I’ve seen appear to be affiliated with a particular ethnic or national group (Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, etc.) Before converting to Catholicism, I would not have sought out Orthodoxy because I have this perception that I would be like an outsider crashing the party since I’m not an Orthodox nationality…Perhaps this is a misperception someone could help me with.
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wmscott
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I just think there is this stigma about “Rome”, the evil empire that gets transfered to the Catholic Church.Depends on whether they’re normal, or Uberdox
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Per_Crucem
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Perhaps. A lot of it is historical and ethnic, as opposed to theological. I certainly disagree with the Latin west about the extent and function of papal primacy, as well as a few smaller issues but not enough to really think about it more than twice a month.
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Per_Crucem
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No more so than Italian, Polish, Irish, Croatian, French or Spanish Catholics.
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Thomas1981
Guest
I see what you mean. But aren’t Orthodox Churches more explicitly organized along national lines. As far as I understand (and I could totally be wrong) the Patriarch of Constantinople is first among equals alongside the national bishops under his umbrella, that he serves to unify the different national wings. Perhaps Russian Orthodoxy doesn’t go along completely with this… Whereas in the Catholic Church the national characteristics are more informal. I guess in America, I feel like if I go to a Greek Orthodox Church I assume that most people there are going to be of Greek origin and connected to a specific immigrant community, whereas some Catholic Churches will have mass in Spanish, some in English, and some bilingual, and I can attend the one that I’m most comfortable with. But as I said, I could be grossly mistaken.
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here_i_stand
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:thumbsup:Yes, this is exactly how I feel. I married my Catholic husband about 8 years ago. I am/was WELS Lutheran (life-long; am in my 40’s now). I’ve been studying Catholicism ever since I met my husband with the hopes of bringing him to my faith. Well, this Easter I will be entering the Catholic Church. Some in my family are taking it hard and say that I am basically leaving everything I’ve ever been taught. I try to explain that … no… everything I’ve been taught has been the FOUNDATION for discovering the fullness of the truth. It’s still so much a part of me. My church friends have been silent…no anger, no support…just silence. So, in answer to the OP’s question, I’ve just never thought about it before. It happened so rarely in my denomination (or at least I just never heard about it… and I mean from WELS Lutheranism to Catholicism). All I can give you is my experience. I’ve received some anger, some disappointment (from family members), mostly silence, and one or two notes of encouraging support. I have heard things like I just did not know my own faith well enough and I don’t understand the dangers of Catholic doctrine. This is hard for me to respond to since I’ve spent the better part of a decade restudying Lutheranism and studying Catholicism. I, myself, am at peace and looking forward with great joy and anticipation to receiving the Eucharist (finally!) at my husband’s side. I just pray that my family members who are hurting right now will eventually find peace with my decision. But, I know that - no matter what - I will not regret it. Sorry for the long post… I guess I had some stuff built up.
(And, yes, I, too, SO MUCH miss the congregational singing!!)
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Per_Crucem
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Yes, they are organized along national lines. I don’t see this as substantively different than how the Catholic Church is organized. Remember that your Church is the Latin Catholic Church, because it’s culture, liturgy and hierarchy is Latin; as well, the Eastern Catholic Churches are organized along the same national lines as the Orthodox Churches are (Chaldean, Maronite, Melkite, Greek, Ukrainian Catholic, etc.).
In the case of the Orthodox, the national lines are administrative and cultural, not theological. To the extent that there is nationalism in Orthodoxy is a degree of human sinfulness. But remember, there are American flags in Catholic parishes, too…as well as nationalistic sentiment.
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Peter_J
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As is often the case, there’s much more that could be said here than time permits. In brief (and hopefully without exaggerating too much) I do believe that the organization of Orthodoxy in the USA, in terms of nationalities/ethnicities, is somewhat strange (and yes I mean that in a negative way).
Not that it’s really my business.
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Per_Crucem
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It’s downright uncanonical.As is often the case, there’s much more that could be said here than time permits. In brief (and hopefully without exaggerating too much) I do believe that the organization of Orthodoxy in the USA, in terms of nationalities/ethnicities, is somewhat strange (and yes I mean that in a negative way).
Not that it’s really my business.
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Peter_J
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Depends on whether they’re normal, or Uberdox
Well, I can’t argue with you on either point.
But I think my “self-serving bias” point applies as well: their point would sound weaker – not to mention more awkward – if they said “We disagree with RCism and Orthodoxy and these things.”
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Thomas1981
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Interesting. I just read up a little on the history of the Orthodox Church in America. Fascinating stuff. The Antiochian Orthodox Church in North America looks more like what I would be looking for if I were to convert to Orthodoxy.
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Per_Crucem
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Antiochian liturgies are beautiful. The OCA is distinctly American (it’s the jurisdiction I am under) and that means it’s just as inept, awkward and disorganized as American administrations in general
But it’s also the only canonical jurisdiction…strictly speaking (I shouldn’t say that in view of Greek eyes).
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Per_Crucem
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Right…it would be like your local Baptist preacher titling his sermon “The Idolatry and Perversions of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church.”Well, I can’t argue with you on either point.
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Rohzek
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I first became interested in undergrad. I knew of Orthodoxy at the time a little bit through my studies of the crusades and the Latin states in the Levant. But what really sparked my interest was my reading of the turmoil within the Holy Roman Empire during the Ottoman march on Vienna in the 16th century. Different Protestant groups and Catholics all disagreed on how to handle the situation, although they united this brief moment to fight. I asked myself though what the Orthodox opinion on the coming conflict was, since the Hapsburgs did have Orthodox subjects on the periphery. I never found out the answer to my initial question, but it did get me reading a lot about Orthodoxy.
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Vanez
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I got interested in Orthodox Church mainly because I keep longing to go there, after the liturgy i feel like a low-batt mobile phone that’s fully charged again–hopefully you get what I mean–
I’m still learning; my friend gave me book by Timothy Ware, i bought prayer book and got a free pdf for Bible study.
About your perception, hmmm…i felt the same way, but since there are members who are not from Russia and Greece, i don’t feel like an outsider anymore. my church’s jurisdiction is patriarch of Moscow, not all members are Russian. Most of us are not Russian, there are Dutch, Syrian, Greeks, Macedonia, Euritrean, even Vietnamese. Since the language spoken is Dutch, everyone understands.
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Izdaari
Guest
Personally, I think all three major Christian traditions (Protestantism, Catholicism and Orthodoxy) are valid, and I do not see my “Great Commission duty” covering the conversion of one to another. All are already Christians, and that’s good enough as I see it.
Similarly, I do not appreciate my Catholic or Orthodox brethren trying to win me over to their traditions. I already do appreciate and learn from them, and have adopted some Catholic and Orthodox theology as my own, but I am already a Christian and do not need to be converted. I’m happy with the Anglican flavor of Christianity.
Similarly, I do not appreciate my Catholic or Orthodox brethren trying to win me over to their traditions. I already do appreciate and learn from them, and have adopted some Catholic and Orthodox theology as my own, but I am already a Christian and do not need to be converted. I’m happy with the Anglican flavor of Christianity.
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Thomas1981
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Yes, when I was a Lutheran (WELS), I never understood why our church spent all of this money on evangelizing in Russia. Russia already has a Christian Church with a great and long history. Why not spend more effort on places that aren’t already Christian? (Fine if they want to bring non-Christians in Russia into the Lutheran Church, but I bet they stole more than a few Orthodox sheep too).
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