Does Current Pope "believe In Evolution"

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I could sure use some help here. The other day I was confronted by a coworker that is convinced that our current pope stated that he “believes in evolution”, said to me how bad he thought this was for our pope to say. I told him I knew for a fact that he said no such thing. Later I sort of did a web search and see that plenty of web sites are saying that he did. Anyone know a quick concise document I can show this guy how he is wrong? I have read what the pope said on one occasion and I am down with that but could use a little more help to show this guy.
 
bigee said:
I could sure use some help here. The other day I was confronted by a coworker that is convinced that our current pope stated that he “believes in evolution”, said to me how bad he thought this was for our pope to say. I told him I knew for a fact that he said no such thing. Later I sort of did a web search and see that plenty of web sites are saying that he did. Anyone know a quick concise document I can show this guy how he is wrong? I have read what the pope said on one occasion and I am down with that but could use a little more help to show this guy.
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Bigee:

I don’t know what the Pope said, hopefully others can help with that. But you should know that the Church does not have a teaching one way or the other on evolution. As a Catholic you are free to believe in it, or not. Evolution fits perfectly well into Catholic teaching. The Bible doesn’t say how God created man, only that he did. If you believe that God created man in one day ~6000 years ago as the Protestants do, that’s okay. Science disagrees, but then again maybe they’re wrong. If you want to believe that God used evolution to create man over millions of years, that is also okay. And it can be backed up with observations of our world. Either way God did it, and it was a spectacular miracle. I personally believe the later version, but you are not required to agree to be Catholic. Its one of those mysteries. We will never know for sure.

For a better explanation follow this link to John Martignoni’s website “The Bible Christian Society”. John is an excellent Catholic apologist and covers this topic in the talk titled “Catholics and the Bible”.

:blessyou:
 
bigee said:
I could sure use some help here. The other day I was confronted by a coworker that is convinced that our current pope stated that he “believes in evolution”, said to me how bad he thought this was for our pope to say. I told him I knew for a fact that he said no such thing. Later I sort of did a web search and see that plenty of web sites are saying that he did. Anyone know a quick concise document I can show this guy how he is wrong? I have read what the pope said on one occasion and I am down with that but could use a little more help to show this guy.
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There are some people who honestly think that if one believes in evolution, they can not be a Christian. Such a person would be upset that the Church allows room for evolution as a belief among its members.

I happen to like the Church’s stance.
 
Evolution is a scientific fact, AND it does NOT contradict Catholic beliefs. It’s only folks who take a very literal interpretation of the Bible (OT) who have problems with eveolution. The RCC does not take this approach.

The seven days of creation could have stretched out over billions of years. Whether God took 7 days or 7000 years or 7 Billion years to make the earth or universe is immaterial. Time to God is meaningless.
 
wcknight said:
Evolution is a scientific fact, AND it does NOT contradict Catholic beliefs. It’s only folks who take a very literal interpretation of the Bible (OT) who have problems with eveolution. The RCC does not take this approach.

The seven days of creation could have stretched out over billions of years. Whether God took 7 days or 7000 years or 7 Billion years to make the earth or universe is immaterial. Time to God is meaningless.
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I have always found it amazing that the order of evolution roughly lines up with the order of the seven days in the Genesis account.
 
Verita said:
No, it is not fact. It is still theory.
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There are two questions thoise who beleive God was NOT involved in creation can never answer:
  1. How did something come from nothing?
  2. How did life spring from non-life
I dont have problem with evolution. If thats the way God decided to implement creation who am I to argue with him?
 
estesbob said:
There are two questions thoise who beleive God was NOT involved in creation can never answer:
  1. How did something come from nothing?
  2. How did life spring from non-life
I dont have problem with evolution. If thats the way God decided to implement creation who am I to argue with him?
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Evolution does not preclude the fact that God created the universe. To me Evolution is the process that God used to differenciate the species, nothing more and nothing less.
 
wcknight said:
Every scientist worth his salt would disagree with you.
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But facts are only observable data, not the truth. And theories are only based on such facts, therefore, evolution is a theory and not a fact, nor is it a truth that cannot be questioned.

As to what the pope believes, it wouldn’t matter if he did believe in evolution. He will never define it as a doctrine or dogma because it doesn’t come under his authority in matters of faith and morals. He could and would decide if certain ideas sprung from evolution theories (and there are more than one), such as no real Adam and Eve, are against the precepts of the Church, which is his right and duty.
 
My guess is that B16 probably does think that the evidence pretty strongly indicates that there is common descent among the species including the human species. (evolution)
However, I know that B16 believes that each one of us is a thought of God. He knows that what we are was created by him precisely.
The main reason that people have difficulty thinking that evolution and our faith are somehow incompatible is not because of the creation stories of Genesis. The main problem that those who do see an incompatibility have, (both atheists and believers), is that they limit the power and capabilities of God. God did not create a big bang, let it go, see what happens and then intervene here and there to produce the outcomes that he desires. He created the whole of the universe AND the whole of it’s existence in time all at once. He created the beginning, middle and end all at once. There is no event in the past present or future of the Universe that is outside of his knowledge from the beginning. And all of these events are his creation except for the affects of our free will. However, the consequences of our actions are formed and created by God. He created the greatest and best possible universe that our free will would allow. And not only that but for all of us at the same time!
This is so much cooler than the other “theories” don’t you think?

Note that I am not saying that God does not directly intervene in a particular time and place for his own purposes. However, I am saying that these interventions were planned and known from the beginning.

BTW. This is also the problem with the intelligent design hypothesis. It is very limiting and demeaning to God to say that he had to intervene to repeatedly into chain of events happening outside of his direction to create the great diversity of Life.

Jim
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This is what the Navarre Bible Commentary on the Pentateuch says (Genesis 2:5-6 …pg 46):

Giving due weight to the data of faith and to scientific discoveries about the evolution of species, Catholic theology is not opposed to the idea that God could have infused a soul into an already-existing being, having previously prepared a body to suit it, thereby making it a “man”. This way of explaining things is called “moderate evolutionism”. In this connexion, John Paul II, in his 22 October 1996 message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, after recalling the teachings of Pius XII’s 1950 encyclical Humani generis, pointed out that recent advances in scholarship “lead one no longer to regard the theory of evolution as a mere hypothesis”. But at the same time he said that there is not just one “theory of evolution” but a number of such theories, and he indicated which ones are contrary to faith: “The theories of evolution which, in line with the philosophies which inspire them, regard the spirit as something that emerges from the forces of living matter or as a mere epiphenomenon of that matter, are incompatible with the truth about man”.

God Bless…
 
Once upon a time I was in graduate school studying quantum mechanics, and one day I wrote on the blackboard before class, “If you believe in quantum mechanics, you may as well believe in God.” The professor came in, erased what I had written, and turned to the class. “I do not feel compelled to address this,” he said, “seeing as it is somewhat beyond the scope of this course, but the person who wrote that up there made the fundamental mistake of thinking that we believe in what we do here. We do not. We make models and make predictions from the models. If a model makes accurate predictions, we use it; if it makes inaccurate predictions, we do not use it. But we do not believe in any of this.”

The Pope believes in God, the Father Almighty; he believes in Jesus Christ, the only-begotten son of God; he believes in the Holy Spirit; he believes in one holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. He does not believe in evolution.
  • Liberian
 
Liberian, I feel like you saw what I was getting at and hit the nail on the head. You very eloquently stated what I was trying to say to this man the other day. It has been very interesting to read these posts. Thanks very much to you all!!
 
estesbob said:
There are two questions thoise who beleive God was NOT involved in creation can never answer:
  1. How did something come from nothing?
  2. How did life spring from non-life
I dont have problem with evolution. If thats the way God decided to implement creation who am I to argue with him?
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The same argument can be used against god. So its kinda pointless to use that argument.
 
nydas said:
The same argument can be used against god. So its kinda pointless to use that argument.
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These argument cannot be used against God because if they are thought through they not only answer the question of how things could possibly exist, but also provide some awsome glimmerings into the nature of God.
As for the question of Life springing from non-life in the material world:
At this point the evidence seems to sugest it highly improbable for this to enevitably happen by chance. But there is no “chance” with Gods creation.
 
JamesD said:
These argument cannot be used against God because if they are thought through they not only answer the question of how things could possibly exist, but also provide some awsome glimmerings into the nature of God.
As for the question of Life springing from non-life in the material world:
At this point the evidence seems to sugest it highly improbable for this to enevitably happen by chance. But there is no “chance” with Gods creation.
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Then maybe you can explain to me this: How did god come to be?
 
Try these documents for the Church’s position on the question:
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM

Then see if what then-Cardinal Ratzinger said was inconsistent. When reading anything from a top theologian or Church official you need to remember that often jargon - ar at least very particular language - is used. Nuanced languae is standard and a cursory reading will usually get you to the wrong place. Read carefully - and very particularly

The Church does not demand a rejection of evolution, per se. It does demand that the faithful believe that God created us - and created Adam and Eve. How that creation was specifically accomplished is not defined. Thus evolution could well be a mechanism used by God. Note that none of this says anything about natural selection - or its clear and proven applicability in many areas, e.g., changes in bacteria to anti-biotics, etc.
 
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