Does Darwin's theory of evolution contradict Catholicsm?

  • Thread starter Thread starter theCardinalbird
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That is the problem. Science can define the physical body but not the rest. The soul is outside of the scientific method. Otherwise, the only answer is we’re biological robots that respond to outside stimuli in various ways based on certain (name removed by moderator)uts. Very machine-like.
 
Yeah, that’s the point. It’s hard to accept because we’re egotistical beings that are primarily concerned with our own view of the world. We don’t want to let go of the manifest image because that’s what differentiates us from everything else. You can’t just believe in a soul because it makes you feel valid. Otherwise, you’re just picking and choosing which parts of science you want to accept to satisfy your egocentricity. That’s why as a Catholic, I just choose to not believe in any of it.
 
A very convincing breakdown of the concept of “science.” I must ask, however, if you believe that the conclusions drawn by scientists are always legitimate? This, in itself, could negate the entire need for this thread. For example, Aristotle once believed that the Earth was the center of the universe, and even though he was brilliant in many regards, this theory was eventually disproven by Galileo. Galileo, on the other hand, believed comets were an “optical illusion” and that there was no way the moon could cause the ocean’s tides. He himself was disproven by Sir Isaac Newton, who in turn thought he could turn metal into gold and died eating mercury. These men were all geniuses in their fields, but they all had flaws in their reasoning. It’s very easy to assume that Darwin had holes in his reasoning as well. Therefore, I do not not believe that Darwin’s Theory of Evolution contradicts Catholicism, because this theory is not necessarily true in the first place and I don’t believe we can assume it is without poring over the data (the numbers and figures behind evolution) ourselves. Have a blessed day!
 
Yes, we must conclude that the IQ of scientists must be abysmally low that they continue to make such grave and repeated errors. Or is it an organised program of deception, from which no one will break ranks in search of that elusive Nobel Prize?
You need to factor in this: “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness” ((2Thess 2:9-12).
 
The trouble with many evolutionary “explanations” is that they are untestable hypotheses relating to events which themselves cannot be verified as factual - so in effect, they are stories within stories.

For example, Darwinists propose that the bones of a mammal’s inner ear evolved from the bone(s) of a reptile’s jaw. This is the first story, which is based on pure speculation - it is not a fact, as no one will ever be able to verify that the bones of a mammal’s inner ear evolved from the bone(s) of a reptile’s jaw. To this story a second story is added - the “nuts and bolts” of how the reptile’s jaw bone actually managed to evolve in the bones of a mammal’s inner ear. Just as with the first story, this second story is pure speculation cannot ever be put to the test or verified as fact. So this theorising is really just glorified story-telling.

Evolutionary biology produces a never-ending stream of these stories-within-stories, all of which are marketed as “science”.

Furthermore, all these stories are based on the theory - not the fact - that all life on earth evolved from unicellular life forms, which is an a priori position stemming from an atheist world-view, the evidence for which is considered highly dubious and contentious by many creation scientists. So this “theory” itself is possibly just another story.
 
The creation of life by God may be quite indistinguishable by us from a random, unguided process. It is thus illogical for science to describe it in any other terms. If we, as persons of faith, overlay what we observe with the action of God, that’s perfectly acceptable. If we, as persons of faith, discard what our rational enquiries so strongly suggest, all in order to subscribe to a Bible story the Church does not see a need to view as historical in nature, that is a…a free choice.
Anyone who knows that God creates through Logos and that he creates things with order will not think that he creates through a random, unguided process or in a manner that looks like it. That’s an idea that only gained currency a few decades ago when some theologians who believed in evolution theory began promoting it. Catholics for 20 centuries saw the natural world just as people do today, but they didn’t speak that way.

It isn’t rationality that suggests evolution, its naturalism.

The Church does teach that the creation accounts in Genesis are historical.


To deny that they are historical is to deny that God created the world and everything in it. How do you deny that they are historical and still believe that God created the world and all things in it? That doesn’t make sense. The creation accounts are the sources for what the Church teaches about the beginning of the world. How do you separate God’s creative acts at the beginning of the world from the history?
Measured with a device? No. Estimated - sure it can.
It can’t be estimated. Estimations are calculated by comparing one thing against another. But there is nothing to compare the earth or the universe against to be able to calculate the span of time between their beginning and now.
 
Last edited:
You need to factor in this: “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception…
Oh, wow. All about scientists!
 
For example, Darwinists propose that the bones of a mammal’s inner ear evolved from the bone(s) of a reptile’s jaw. This is the first story, which is based on pure speculation
You are being lied to by your sources again. We have a good series of fossils showing the development of the mammalian ear in Therapsid reptiles, also known as “Mammal-like reptiles”. See Evolution of mammalian auditory ossicles.

Why do you trust sources that continually lie to you?

rossum
 
Anyone who knows that God creates through Logos and that he creates things with order will not think that he creates through a random, unguided process or in a manner that looks like it.
And yet evolutionary change does indeed look random and unguided, save for the effect of natural selection. That does not mean it is random.
The Church does teach that the creation accounts in Genesis are historical…How do you deny that they are historical and still believe that God created the world and all things in it?
Evidence rather strongly suggests that historical details such as the time-point of creation (5778 years ago??) and the taking of 6 “earth days” are not factual, and they are not among those things the Church teaches that are to be accepted as historical fact.
To deny that they are historical is to deny that God created the world and everything in it.
That is your imagination speaking. Or an attempt to pigeon hole God.
It can’t be estimated. Estimations are calculated by comparing one thing against another. But there is nothing to compare the earth or the universe against to be able to calculate the span of time between their beginning and now.
Please, please apply for a Noble Prize. All those scientists are so dumb. How could they not know this. You are on the verge of undoing decades of “demonic science”. :roll_eyes:
 
Last edited:
So…blind,random,and unguided evolution knew that there was going to be flies to eat for the venus fly trap ?

Blind,random,and unguided evolution knew that there would be clownfish for the sea anemone ?
 
Last edited:
So…blind,random,and unguided evolution knew that there was going to be flies to eat for the venus fly trap ?

Blind,random,and unguided evolution knew that there would be clownfish for the sea anemone ?
Mutations are blind and unguided. Natural selection is not blind and not unguided. A mutation that helps hunt unicorns is useless in the absence of unicorns, so natural selection will tend to eliminate such mutations. A mutation that helps catch insects can be useful, so we have the Sundew evolving to catch insects. Later the Venus Flytrap evolved a modified method, relying on speed rather than sticky. You do know that the two plants are closely related?

Your characterisation of evolution as “blind and unguided” shows that you need to learn more about evolution. Random mutations are blind and unguided; natural selection is not blind and not unguided. Hence, evolution as a whole is neither blind nor unguided.

Your fingers are blind, but your eyes are not. Hence you as a whole, including all your parts, are not blind. You need to consider all of evolution.

rossum
 
A mutation that helps catch insects can be useful, so we have the Sundew evolving to catch insects. Later the Venus Flytrap evolved a modified method, relying on speed rather than sticky. You do know that the two plants are closely related?
So a random mutation told these Plants that they were going to have to “evolve” to eat insects in order to survive…I’m not buying it. How did the plants know that there would be insects available for them to eat…evolution told them ? And how long did it take evolution to get the trap to work?
 
So a random mutation told these Plants that they were going to have to “evolve” to eat insects in order to survive…I’m not buying it. How did the plants know that there would be insects available for them to eat…evolution told them ? And how long did it take evolution to get the trap to work?
No. You are personalising things far too much. Mutations happen randomly. A mutation to catch whales is useless if there are no whales in the vicinity. A mutation to catch insects is useful if there are insects in the vicinity. It is very useful in areas with soil low in nitrogen because insects contain usable nitrogen.

The plants did not “know”. It is just that plants with the extra source of nitrogen bore more seeds than the plants without that source.

Sundews catch insects the same way pine resin catches insects. Like flypaper, they exude sticky stuff to catch the insects.

rossum
 
The plants did not “know”. It is just that plants with the extra source of nitrogen bore more seeds than the plants without that source.
How would a random mutation even know the concept of making a trap like the one used on the Venus Flytrap ?
 
How would a random mutation even know the concept of making a trap like the one used on the Venus Flytrap ?
You have a wall with hundreds of thousands of targets. One target is “be better at catching unicorns”. Another target is “be better at catching insects.” Another target is “be better at avoiding lions.” Another target is “be better at avoiding Godzilla.” For each “be better at…” target there is also a “be worse at…” target. Many targets appear on the wall more then once. I am sure you get the idea.

Shoot an arrow randomly at the targets. Some arrows miss all the targets. Some hit a target, but the target is useless, like the unicorns targets. Some hit a bad target. A few hit a good target.

That is where mutations stop. Mutations are the arrows that may, or may not do something (hit a target) and that target may or may not be useful. It may even be bad.

The arrow/mutation knows nothing of the wall or the targets. It just hits the wall somewhere.

Natural selection is able to distinguish between neutral results which do not change the average number of offspring, deleterious results which decrease the average number of offspring and beneficial results which increase the average number of offspring.

You need to learn more about how these two process interact, and what each process does. Currently you are making far too many elementary errors.

As to the specific evolution of the Venus Flytrap, the major change is to speed up the trap closure. A Sundew may take half an hour to close, and uses sticky sap to hold the insect in place while it does so. A Venus Flytrap greatly increased the speed of closure and so was able to dispense with the sticky sap. In this case the targets were “close a bit faster” and “make a bit less sticky sap”. Eventually those targets would be hit repeatedly over many generations resulting in the evolution of a Venus Flytrap from a Sundew-like ancestor.

rossum
 
Oh, you should just accept it. Or read a book titled “The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe without Design” by Richard Dawkins. It’s taken literally by some, but a “blind watchmaker” making a working watch? I don’t buy it.
 
For the archer, the bow and arrow can be shot anywhere but that is not why they were made. The archer picks a target and if he is well-trained, will hit it, with a reason to do so: for food, for defense… The bow and arrow are not self-firing, and have no intelligence.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top