J
justinthemartyr
Guest
Is the Doctrine of Christ only scripture itself? where does the Bible support or oppose this?
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J
justinthemartyr
Guest
the person I am dealing with claims that 2 john 1-9 is claiming that the doctrine of Christ is scripture alone. I do not see it.
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
Not exactly, if Scripture was in itself Doctrine completely, then that would be Sola Scriptura. The Catechism defines Doctrine/Dogma as “The revealed teachings of Christ which are proclaimed by the fullest extent of the exercise of the authority of the Church’s Magesterium.” I would read this link of what St. Thomas Aquinas teaches about Sacred Doctrine. newadvent.org/summa/1001.htm
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
That Scripture passage has to be a typo or it is a terrible example to prove sola scriptura.the person I am dealing with claims that 2 john 1-9 is claiming that the doctrine of Christ is scripture alone. I do not see it.
J
justinthemartyr
Guest
their focus is on vs 9
which says nothing of scripture or alone or anything remotely close. wishful thinking at best.
which says nothing of scripture or alone or anything remotely close. wishful thinking at best.
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
I would just declare yourself right in that discussion and go on, if that is the best they have. Many times people have their mind made up and will not budge even when their argument has been shown to be weak. St. Augustine said,
Only if we all had that same spirit!“Advance with me when you share my certainty. Seek with me when you have the same doubts. Accept my interpretation when it is you who is in error. And win me over to yours if it is I who am wrong.”
A
Archus
Guest
…plus at the end of John, it states that there were a great many things that Christ did, and that if they were to be written down, then the world itself would not hold all the books that would be written.
This basically means that if it was sola scriptura, then the entirety of the faith would have to be included in the bible, but it isn’t, so therefore there are a great many things that have to be taken into account that are not found in scripture.
This basically means that if it was sola scriptura, then the entirety of the faith would have to be included in the bible, but it isn’t, so therefore there are a great many things that have to be taken into account that are not found in scripture.
E
epostle
Guest
2 Timothy 3
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned (TRADITION) and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it (MAGISTERIUM) 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings (SCRIPTURE) which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Now let’s string these together so that we get the complete idea that St. Paul was trying to get across:
Continue in what you have learned, knowing from whom you learned it and you have been acquainted with the sacred writings that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Or to paraphrase even further:
Continue in the Traditions which you learned from Magisterial authority and study the Bible so that you may be fully equipped for every good work.
Verse 14 and 15 is a rebutting defeater to the much abused and isolated 2 Tim 3:16; sola scripturists ignore the previous 2 verses.
Interestingly enough in Catholic Tradition the four uses of Scripture corresponded to the Quadriga, the four-fold method of exegesis for the Bible used in the medieval period: Literal (teaching), Analogical (reproof), Prophetic (correction), and Moral (training in righteousness).
The protestant reformers rejected this and tried to reduce biblical exegesis to the literal-historical method. In doing so, they were considered by their Catholic contemporaries as being unbiblical for ignoring 2 Tim 3:16.
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned (TRADITION) and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it (MAGISTERIUM) 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings (SCRIPTURE) which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Now let’s string these together so that we get the complete idea that St. Paul was trying to get across:
Continue in what you have learned, knowing from whom you learned it and you have been acquainted with the sacred writings that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Or to paraphrase even further:
Continue in the Traditions which you learned from Magisterial authority and study the Bible so that you may be fully equipped for every good work.
Verse 14 and 15 is a rebutting defeater to the much abused and isolated 2 Tim 3:16; sola scripturists ignore the previous 2 verses.
Interestingly enough in Catholic Tradition the four uses of Scripture corresponded to the Quadriga, the four-fold method of exegesis for the Bible used in the medieval period: Literal (teaching), Analogical (reproof), Prophetic (correction), and Moral (training in righteousness).
The protestant reformers rejected this and tried to reduce biblical exegesis to the literal-historical method. In doing so, they were considered by their Catholic contemporaries as being unbiblical for ignoring 2 Tim 3:16.
J
justinthemartyr
Guest
I totally agree. If you wish to get involved in some dialogue with this ministry making these claims, you can find them at www.atruechurch.info and click on “reach us”.
This will allow you to read the incredible claims they are making against all Christians throughout all of history. Once again, it seems they are trying to say that they are correct in their method and no one else is. They even call the fathers of the church evil and they call the reformers evil as well, which would technically be going against what Paul stated when he said that God is the only knower of the human heart.
peace, Justin
This will allow you to read the incredible claims they are making against all Christians throughout all of history. Once again, it seems they are trying to say that they are correct in their method and no one else is. They even call the fathers of the church evil and they call the reformers evil as well, which would technically be going against what Paul stated when he said that God is the only knower of the human heart.
peace, Justin
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
I totally agree. If you wish to get involved in some dialogue with this ministry making these claims, you can find them at www.atruechurch.info and click on “reach us”.
Wow, this group really sounds, lost. What a shame. Just pray for people like that, especially for the poor souls who are born into groups like that who really don’t have a chance to get a fair prespective on Christ. Just don’t get too discouraged if you keep debating with them, their hearts are hard, and convincing them of their errors is only something God can do.This will allow you to read the incredible claims they are making against all Christians throughout all of history. Once again, it seems they are trying to say that they are correct in their method and no one else is. They even call the fathers of the church evil and they call the reformers evil as well, which would technically be going against what Paul stated when he said that God is the only knower of the human heart.
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