Does "Eternal Security" make Judgement redundant?

[RedRedemption]

Well, really, this isn’t a very accurate representation of Catholic beliefs, but I would expect that to be as true of most non-Catholic’s describing the Catholic Church as it would be of most cradle Catholics trying to describe an Evangelical Church.

Chuck

There is a posting under the Ask an Apologist forum where the question is asked if missing Mass is a mortal sin. The Apologist that answers it speaks of the Eucharist and the sacrifice. The catechism calls Christ’s sacrifice and the sacrifice of the Eucharist to be one and the same sacrifice, one in a bloody manner and one in an unbloody manner but none the less a sacrifice in which redemption is imparted to the partakers. This makes the Mass vitally important to salvation. Again, a big difference between what most Protestants and Catholics believe about the purpose the church serves. Protestants don’t believe missing church is a mortal sin, but that true believers will desire to follow the commands of scripture and will have a pattern of going to church even if missing some services.
Based on the church’s writings, what part of what I’m saying is inaccurate?

 

[JustaServant]

There is a posting under the Ask an Apologist forum where the question is asked if missing Mass is a mortal sin. The Apologist that answers it speaks of the Eucharist and the sacrifice. The catechism calls Christ’s sacrifice and the sacrifice of the Eucharist to be one and the same sacrifice, one in a bloody manner and one in an unbloody manner but none the less a sacrifice in which redemption is imparted to the partakers. This makes the Mass vitally important to salvation. Again, a big difference between what most Protestants and Catholics believe about the purpose the church serves. Protestants don’t believe missing church is a mortal sin, but that true believers will desire to follow the commands of scripture and will have a pattern of going to church even if missing some services.
Based on the church’s writings, what part of what I’m saying is inaccurate?

The key is the Eucharist.

 

[JustaServant]

You said that so well. Being raised Baptist (dad was a Baptist preacher), the OSAS always led to major rationalization in my life. Now with God’s grace am trying to live a holy life. When I believed OSAS, I didn’t think a holy life was possible. I used to think of the OSAS as a bus ticket to heaven, so it didn’t matter what I did. I always rationalized that God had forgiven my future sins as well, so any of my attempts of rejecting sinfulness were half-hearted at best.

I am thankful for God’s grace that I did not die in my unrepented mortal sins. : )

The central point becomes how one views the consequences of sin. It all comes down to personal responsiblity. A word seemingly foriegn in our current culture. OSAS takes that away and salvation becomes a kind of ‘spiritual welfare state’ in which I don’t have to worry because I know the check is in the mail.

 

[carinapir]

Well it makes a big difference in your view of the church. Catholics believe that the church imparts the grace of Christ. For example, they believe that in the Eucharist, the sacrifice of Christ on the cross is re-presented in an unbloody manner and they receive forgiveness for sins. You have to keep doing this regularly or you mortally sin. Well only the church and the priest can obtain this forgiveness and grace for you.
Evangelicals believe the church is for believers to gather to worship and study the Bible and celebrate communion as a memorial but not a sacrifice. They don’t believe the church is necessary for forgiveness of sins but that true believers should come to church and serve and love God and each other and confess their sins to each other. It is because they believe that their faith leads to their salvation and the works and sanctification comes afterward.

So, the the order does have important implications.

Well, it always seems like Catholics and Protestants are arguing about the same essence of the state of faith, grace, and goodness, rather than what they should be arguing about: the best way to achieve the exact same state of being.

 

[JustaServant]

My question is why does the order matter so much? That probably sounds stupid but when I read the debates here about the Protestant versus the Catholic Church ideas of salvation, I’m always left thinking “wow, they are both talking about exactly the same thing, just from a different angle.”

No they are not. Because the evangelical believes salvation is a one-time ‘event’, a sort of ‘zap’ from God that becomes a monument the Christian looks back on. OSAS gaurentees that ‘event’, so you never have to worry God will ‘unzap’ you. As a result, sin and judgement shrink in consequence.
For the Catholic, salvation is a life-long process. Sin and judgement for that sin remain a reality. My personal responsiblity is at the core. Not taken away by a OSAS ‘guarentee’ that I will be ‘as sure for Heaven as Jesus Himself’,

 

[carinapir]

No they are not. Because the evangelical believes salvation is a one-time ‘event’, a sort of ‘zap’ from God that becomes a monument the Christian looks back on. OSAS gaurentees that ‘event’, so you never have to worry God will ‘unzap’ you. As a result, sin and judgement shrink in consequence.
For the Catholic, salvation is a life-long process. Sin and judgement for that sin remain a reality. My personal responsiblity is at the core. Not taken away by a OSAS ‘guarentee’ that I will be ‘as sure for Heaven as Jesus Himself’,

Yes, but then as another poster commented some Protestants will say “We are Once Saved Always Saved…but…if someone were to commit some really bad sin then we would know they were never really saved in the first place….”

And that brings us back to square one again.

OSAS can lead to a reduction in personal responsibility but not if you believe it as precisely as some the of Protestants here appear to. The rituals of the Catholic Church can lead someone into following the motions and believing in works based salvation, but if one is catechized properly this does not happen. Both systems have their flaws but really it is our human failure to understand.