Does everyone accept the Catholic Church right to modify the bible?

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Church_Militant said:
Yet … the men that claimed those titles were pagans…and according to your logic then a title used by pagans cannot be applied to anything else…

If these men were examples of Anti-Christ, then by your logic that indicts the use of the term for Our Lord. :eek:

You can’t justify it, because it irrational bunkum.
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No The Lord God is the Christ…the Saviour, not the Anti-Christ.

When others use God’s titles ie “most holy father” then it is anti-christ.

Never heard of bunkum, is it an animal or plant?😛
 
Church_Militant said:
James 3:1: Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.
I haven’t seen beans for scripture from you so far. And when you are refuted you get angry and call names. (“hot shot”? Please…)

I’m not angry sir, but I don’t brook rhetoric and propaganda that is aimed at our most holy faith. You have made statements and cited sources that are grossly inaccurate and I have responded with factual refutations. If you can’t handle that then maybe you don’t really know what you are talking about.Nice…very charitable of you.:rotfl: So far it looks very much as if my Catholic brothers and sisters and I have buried you in scripture and you have not refuted us. Who does that tell you knows the Word of God.

Hey, I’m not the one who apparently misquoted John 14:6 in the heat of his anger…😃 Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ and John 21:15-17
15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep. Really? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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So where is the proof that Jesus said Peter was to be a pope.
That is all good scripture but sorry no proof there.
 
Here is your proof, the great catholic whore

1One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

9"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

15Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God’s words are fulfilled. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
 
VoiceofOne said:
Here is your proof, the great catholic whore

1One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

9"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

15Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God’s words are fulfilled. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
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Do a forum search, will you?
 
VoiceofOne said:
So where is the proof that Jesus said Peter was to be a pope.
That is all good scripture but sorry no proof there.
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That’s your refutation??!

Gosh, the fact that even the Greek is singular and personal means that Jesus is speaking to Peter and not even anyone else there at the time.

Our Lord says “19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.” That’s also singular. So who then did Christ give the keys to the kingdom of heaven?
 
Hello,
VoiceofOne said:
OOOH I screwed up one word. Please forgive me.

You keep asking for proof hot shot. I give you verses from the Holy Scriptures. God’s Word is not good enough for you. You get angry, because you want to believe a lie.
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Oh really. I looked over your posts in this thread, and this is a compilation of your Scripture quotes:

Direct quotes:
“I am the way, the truth and the light.” (post 47)
“Narrow is the gate and few are they who find it…” but “Wide is the road and many follow it that leads to destruction.” (post 47)
“Don’t throw pearls before swine, they’ll trample them under their feet and turn to rend you.”(post 57, the one where you tell us how much you quote Scripture - and meant as an insult and not as a constructive debate point)
A long quote of Revelation 17 (post 63)

Indirect quotes:
The Queen of Heaven in the bible is Asherah (post 42)
Peter wrote extensively on the subject of Christ being the Rock (post 47)
The Bible calls Jesus the King of Kings. The bible tells the story of how these other examples were called it by men or themselves, it’s an example of anti-christ. (post 48)

So, when you made your claim of quoting Scriptures left and right, you only made two direct quotes - and you screwed up one of them. That is a 50% error rate - not something to brag about. Also you claim that you don’t give verses to spur reading - how does that work with the indirect quotes? Oh, the Bible says such and such - it is in there somewhere. :rolleyes:

Also, you presuppose something in Revelation 17 that the Bible does not say (a no-no according to you). There is nothing in Scriptures that can give that presupposition. It is a presupposition of anti-Catholic men, passed on through the generations and taught to you (ARG! a tradition of men :bigyikes: ).

Furthermore you state that Catholics are completely ignorant of Scriptures. There are a total of seven quotes by you (almost half of which are indirect). There has been countless direct quotes of Scripture given you by Catholics in this thread - Caesar alone gave several dozen (I stopped counting when I ran out of fingers :D). And all were kind enough to tell you where they were, so you could easily read them for yourself in the Bible of your choice.
 
VoiceofOne said:
Now here’s the million dollar question… Where is your proof that Peter was pope… from scripture, not your catholic dogma.
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I’ll tackle this challenge from now.

You want to the Truth and nothing but the Truth? Here is it.

The word Pope is no where in the Bible just as the Trinity is not written in the Bible. Pope derives from the Pappas, a Greek word for father. The Pope has this title because he is a spiritual father of the Catholic faith, which makes up the majority of all Christians.

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, the Servant of Servant’s servants, the Successor of the Apostle, the Bishop of Rome.

This was handed down to us from the Apostles started with Peter, the first Pope.

Matthew 16:18 Jesus told Simon Son of BarJona, “And I tell you, You are Peter, and On this Rock I will build My Church, and the Powers of death shall not prevail against it.”

In the language of Jesus the word for Rock is Kepha or Cephas. Let us use this word.

“And I tell you, You are Kepha and On this Kepha I will Built My Church, and the powers of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

The Gospel of Matthews is believed by Biblical Theologians is said to have influence in Aramaic usage… But we do know Jesus spoke Aramaic. Eli, Eli, is Aramaic.

Jesus build One Church, and He build it upon Peter, and Peter is grafted into Himself, the Christ. For in a Church there is are many stone or rocks. Jesus is the cornerstone rejected by the Pharisees and elders of the Jewish leaders.

Jesus is the head of the Church, and we are His Body. In our Baptism, we have become part of His Mystical Body. The Pope is the stewart of Jesus’ Church, His Kingdom on earth.
 
VoiceofOne said:
Now here’s the million dollar question… Where is your proof that Peter was pope… from scripture, not your catholic dogma.
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I’ll tackle this challenge from now.

You want to the Truth and nothing but the Truth? Here is it.

The word Pope is no where in the Bible just as the Trinity is not written in the Bible. Pope derives from the Pappas, a Greek word for father. The Pope has this title because he is a spiritual father of the Catholic faith, which makes up the majority of all Christians.

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, the Servant of Servant’s servants, the Successor of the Apostle, the Bishop of Rome.

This was handed down to us from the Apostles started with Peter, the first Pope.

Matthew 16:18 Jesus told Simon Son of BarJona, “And I tell you, You are Peter, and On this Rock I will build My Church, and the Powers of death shall not prevail against it.”

In the language of Jesus the word for Rock is Kepha or Cephas. Let us use this word.

“And I tell you, You are Kepha and On this Kepha I will Built My Church, and the powers of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

The Gospel of Matthews is believed by Biblical Theologians is said to have influence in Aramaic usage… But we do know Jesus spoke Aramaic. Eli, Eli, is Aramaic.

Jesus build One Church, and He build it upon Peter, and Peter is grafted into Himself, the Christ. For in a Church there is are many stone or rocks. Jesus is the cornerstone rejected by the Pharisees and elders of the Jewish leaders.

Jesus is the head of the Church, and we are His Body. In our Baptism, we have become part of His Mystical Body. The Pope is the steward of Jesus’ Church, His Kingdom on earth.
 
Church_Militant said:
That’s your refutation??!

Gosh, the fact that even the Greek is singular and personal means that Jesus is speaking to Peter and not even anyone else there at the time.

Our Lord says “19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.” That’s also singular. So who then did Christ give the keys to the kingdom of heaven?
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He certainly didn’t give them to himself, unlike some protestants would have you believe with their interpretation of the previous verse…
 
VoiceofOne

While looking for the correct spelling of the the Greek word katholikos, the source word for Catholic, I ran across some intereting points for you to kick around. But first, Google “Early Church Fathers” and read some ancient civilization history from a real scholar before refuting facts from ignornance. At least read them. Also read the didache, an ancient missle thought to be written by Clement of Rome in about 70 A.D. Ignatious of Antioch used the greek work for Catholic in around 107 A.D. Now we know that in your mind this doesn’t prove Pope or use of “father” or now that I think about it the word “reverend” that is often used for Baptist preachers. Talk about a cunundrum. Obviously you family, friends, and or church did a great job of blinding you to reality. Before you can be a really good Baptist, you should at least know where you come from…somewhere in the 1800’s if memory serves me right.

Catholic was born on 33 A.D. on the day of Pentacost.
Baptist was born 18?? A.D.
Figure it out.

From New Advent
“It was the Catholic Church that defined the Blessed Trinity, the hypostatic union of divinity and humanity in the one person of Jesus, salvation, baptism, the Eucharist, and all the other doctrines that have been the bedrock of the Christian faith. It is also the Catholic Church that gave birth to the New Testament—collecting, canonizing, preserving, distributing, and interpreting the books therein. As a Protestant, I was quite willing to accept unknowingly the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the closed canon of the New Testament, etc., but I willfully rejected the full teaching of the Catholic Church. I now realize that it is in the Catholic Church that we find the fullness of the faith and the visible, universal body of Christ.”
 
The title of this thread since to be alittle ought to me, becoz how can a church simply modify the bible. God will provides revelation which is not inside the bible and if that becomes an official teaching to the church, then that is acceptable. But at such a church revelation have to make known to the public and not simply put in place and tell pple, please follow and don’t ask question:D
 
So you think that Catholics make this stuff up. Hmm. Have you read to historical writing of the early Church? I dare you. I tripple dog dare you.😉
 
I hold in my formerly pagan-out-of-the-Catholic-Church-for-25-years hands

a copy of the newly released

"Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger - The Untold Story Of The Lost Books Of The Protestant Bible"

Arguments about 73 or 66 usually are either ended in confusion in trying to present all the evidence, because no one (until now) has really accumulated all that evidence.

Certainly a work like this would not come from a protestant camp, lest they find themselves in error.

Gary Michuta, the author, presents over 300 pages which any serious student can check and double check. There are many footnotes, many references, many proofs that once again the Catholic position is the correct one… and it is a fairly easy read.

handsonapologetics.com/ is the website of the author, and you can link on to Grotto Press to order… a $20 reference book every “66” proponent should now consider.

Thanks Gary… but where were you 500 years ago when Luther was playing his game?😃

seriously, if one can afford to pick this up… it is not only a great and long overdue reference on the deutrocanonicals, but you would be supporting a darn good ministry too.
 
God tells us more than once not to add or take away from the Word. Once at the end of Revelation.
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So one presumes you do not accept the bible in it’s entirety except those bits that were not added to the original texts.

Do you for example accept the last Chapter of the fourth Gospel and if so why?

Surely that is in blatant breach of the command above 😛
 
—Quote (Originally by VoiceofOne)—
I don’t tell you where the verses are because it’ll spur you catholics to read a little.
—End Quote—
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😉
 
Our Lord says “19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.” That’s also singular. So who then did Christ give the keys to the kingdom of heaven?
Dominus meus et Deus meus
Michael
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AMEN 👍
 
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