Does everyone truly believe that "God will provide?"

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I think there’s also a difference between “I want to marry a well-educated man with a good income” and what I’ve seen a time or two, which is “I want to marry a man who doesn’t have too much student loan debt.” There’s a point where you have to ask, what are we going to have to not provide the kids because of a lower income, and how important is it?
 
DarkLight said:
I think there’s also a difference between “I want to marry a well-educated man with a good income” and what I’ve seen a time or two, which is “I want to marry a man who doesn’t have too much student loan debt.” There’s a point where you have to ask, what are we going to have to not provide the kids because of a lower income, and how important is it?
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Yes. Some people literally have the equivalent of a mortgage payment student loans every month. To have that but to not have a commensurate income would be a bad, bad thing.
 
masondoggy said:
“God will provide” doesn’t mean there won’t be hard times. Doesn’t mean you will have all the “things” you want. It doesn’t mean you’ll have the lifestyle you want. And it doesn’t mean that you don’t have to do your part and work hard. And there may be times when it seems that God has abandoned you and everything is falling apart and you don’t understand WHY he’s not helping you. And then you look back 10 years later and realize that He WAS helping you by putting the dominoes in place for something that will happen in your future that will benefit you immensely. It’s all about trust, even when things seem hopeless.
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And I agree with this. Tell that to the people who say they can only marry someone if they know they won’t end up in these situations. 😛
 
Xantippe said:
As you may realize, women often struggle with respecting their husbands. Hence, a lot of us need all the help we can get in that department, so we need to marry a man with qualities that demand our respect.
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What happened to everyone having inherent dignity and being worthy of respect? I understand it can be a struggle in some situations, but to only base respect due to a man’s income sounds very worldly and secular, if not straight out objectifying him. And you are leaving out the possibility of God granting a person the grace to have abundant respect for their husband regardless of his income. 🤷

By the way, I am not talking about marrying a man that has no job, no hopes of having a career, a guy that smokes and drinks all day. No, I am talking about a hard-working middle class man who works hard and is responsible, but doesn’t make exhorbitant amount of money, but he is also a good moral man. Maybe he can provide for one child and the family can live a very basic lifestyle.

Then there’s the guy that has a great career in which he makes lots and lots of money. Nothing is wrong with this, of course. But if you are minimizing his morals and character in favor of his income and would rather choose this guy over the other, then something seems kind of off, for those who claim living basic is fine and you should just wing it and pop out kids.
 
Corki said:
I don’t understand. Are you saying there is something wrong with this?
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There’s nothing wrong with it per se. If you are the type of person who says they can only marry someone with X amount of monthly income and advising people to wing it and pop out kids even though they are describing their situation and admitting that having kids could seriously detriment them even having the most basic of necessities, then you are saying “It’s ok for you, but not for me.”
Corki said:
Wanting to marry someone with a similar education background is not any different than wanting to marry someone with a similar faith.
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It’s not the same thing at all. Faith doesn’t have a face. A faithful Catholic can be your family physician, dentist, county judge, bus driver, janitor, IT tech, garbage man, plumber, construction worker, carpenter, office clerk, grocery bagger and so on.

Someone with similar education background is much more confined and staying within these walls based on money, sounds weird to hear coming from someone who professes to be Catholic.

Compatibility goes further than just money.

Let me ask you, would it be so wrong if someone who was a lawyer or doctor married a bus driver who made $40k a year, for example?

What is more important anyway, faith or income?
 
Thorns said:
Someone with similar education background is much more confined and staying within these walls based on money, sounds weird to hear coming from someone who professes to be Catholic.

Compatibility goes further than just money.

Let me ask you, would it be so wrong if someone who was a lawyer or doctor married a bus driver who made $40k a year, for example?
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I think it’s the money thing that’s weird. Many people want to marry someone of a similar education level, but it’s usually not about money. It’s just harder for many people to relate to someone with radically different education levels.
 
Thorns said:
What happened to everyone having inherent dignity and being worthy of respect?

**That’s fine, but we don’t have to marry, share a household and raise children with everyone. **

I understand it can be a struggle in some situations, but to only base respect due to a man’s income sounds very worldly and secular, if not straight out objectifying him. And you are leaving out the possibility of God granting a person the grace to have abundant respect for their husband regardless of his income. 🤷

**I didn’t say income specifically. I said: “I know that I personally would probably struggle with respecting my husband if he weren’t as professionally successful as he is–it makes it easier to respect him, knowing that he is respected and valued in his field. As you may realize, women often struggle with respecting their husbands. Hence, a lot of us need all the help we can get in that department, so we need to marry a man with qualities that demand our respect.”

You’ll notice that the word “income” did not appear there and I talked of “qualities that demand our respect,” which is actually a pretty broad category. **

By the way, I am not talking about marrying a man that has no job, no hopes of having a career, a guy that smokes and drinks all day. No, I am talking about a hard-working middle class man who works hard and is responsible, but doesn’t make exhorbitant amount of money, but he is also a good moral man. Maybe he can provide for one child and the family can live a very basic lifestyle.

**You realize, I hope, that “hard-working middle class man who works hard and is responsible, but doesn’t make exorbitant amounts of money, but he is also a good moral man” is actually rather a prize these days? I think one kid is definitely not middle class, though–US total fertility per woman is just a hair below 2 kids, so that’s a reasonable expectation for an average US family.

Incidentally, in the US, as of 2008, the median income for a family of 4 was $67k. Hence, a guy who wants to be the sole support for a family of four needs to be headed for roughly that kind of income.

census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statistics/4person.html**

Lots of women are (not unnaturally) squicked out at the idea of having to put their precious babies in daycare from infancy.

Then there’s the guy that has a great career in which he makes lots and lots of money. Nothing is wrong with this, of course. But if you are minimizing his morals and character in favor of his income and would rather choose this guy over the other, then something seems kind of off, for those who claim living basic is fine and you should just wing it and pop out kids.
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**The more ambitious guy is (all else being equal) going to be more attractive and more interesting, even early on when he and the less ambitious guy are making exactly the same salary (which happens not infrequently). As I may have mentioned, when I first met my husband, he was pulling down maybe $14k as a graduate student (woohoo! we’re buying the GOOD ramen!), but he was scary smart and that immediately won my respect. **
 
Thorns said:
There’s nothing wrong with it per se. If you are the type of person who says they can only marry someone with X amount of monthly income and advising people to wing it and pop out kids even though they are describing their situation and admitting that having kids could seriously detriment them even having the most basic of necessities, then you are saying “It’s ok for you, but not for me.”

**I don’t think you’ve yet identified who is doing that. You can’t just say that you’re getting a “vibe”. That’s lame. **

It’s not the same thing at all. Faith doesn’t have a face. A faithful Catholic can be your family physician, dentist, county judge, bus driver, janitor, IT tech, garbage man, plumber, construction worker, carpenter, office clerk, grocery bagger and so on.

Certainly. But your spouse needs to be more than just a generic faithful Catholic. They need to be somebody who understands you, laughs at your jokes, agrees with you on the relative importance of orthodontics vs. bass boat, football camp vs. violin lessons, college vs. RV and so forth. You know, there are families that just won’t pay for college, even when they are rolling in money. I could not respect or live peacefully with a guy like that. There are dozens of issues like that.

Someone with similar education background is much more confined and staying within these walls based on money, sounds weird to hear coming from someone who professes to be Catholic.

**So, what’s your formula for a happy marriage? Roll the dice and choose the first eligible lady from Ave Maria Singles that answers your emails?
**

Compatibility goes further than just money.

Let me ask you, would it be so wrong if someone who was a lawyer or doctor married a bus driver who made $40k a year, for example?

What is more important anyway, faith or income?

**There’s nothing wrong, but the doctor might be happier with a nurse and the lawyer might be happier with a paralegal. It’s FUN to be in a relationship with somebody who understands you and that you can talk shop with. **
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Thorns said:
It seems to me that some of these same people don’t exactly believe their own words and don’t believe that “God will provide”. What’s up with that?
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I see it this way: The Lord helps those who help themselves.
 
Thorns said:
And I agree with this. Tell that to the people who say they can only marry someone if they know they won’t end up in these situations. 😛
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Well nobody knows the future and telling somebody anything with that kind of mindset is probably a waste of breathe.

I do think it’s sensible to be picky about who you will marry. It’s a good idea to look at traits that will most likely lead to financial security: hard worker, responsible with money, some kind of job skill etc. etc. You don’t want to wind up in a marriage with somebody who is lazy and doesn’t care to improve themselves. This would be a disaster.

But I don’t think that has anything to do with education level. I know people who would ONLY date educated people who had a promising job in the corporate world. Guess what? They eventually wound up in a horrible marriage. They put money above character and they paid a huge price for it. They may be “financially secure” but they also have the worry of impending financial disaster when the inevitable divorce happens. So what was the point anyway?
 
Thorns said:
I’ve seen it stated here on CAF numerous times and I’ve heard it in person among other Catholics that “God will provide”, usually in response to a married couple/person who says that they don’t want children because they are incapable in one way or another (usually financially) to support them.

Yet, I see a lot of these same people that state they could only marry someone with the same level of education and that makes as much money as them if not more, has to be able to be well off financially in case a big family is started etc.

It seems to me that some of these same people don’t exactly believe their own words and don’t believe that “God will provide”. What’s up with that?
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Truth be told I don’t know anymore. I used to believe God would provide or at least not let me starve but I’m not so sure. The last 2 years have been a struggle for me in everyway that you can imagine.
 
Here’s a little more on marriage and respect.

The problem is that living together over the course of many years, one develops an encyclopedic knowledge of one’s spouse’s foibles, quirks, phobias and sins. Hence, it helps a lot if you start the relationship with a big, heaping pile of respect. Because it tends to get used up rapidly when you find your spouse being obstinate or dumb (which you will). The more respect you start with, the better.

A friend of mine has a husband who is a brilliant scientist. His being brilliant and respected doesn’t cover all marital offences (of which there have been many), but it helps a lot.
 
on_the_hill said:
I see it this way: The Lord helps those who help themselves.
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I think this is very true. We can’t be passive about trusting in the Lord. It’s not like we can say “God, I trust you to help me pay the bills this month” and then sit back on your bum playing video games waiting for money to magically show up.

Likewise, you can’t expect that “God will provide” for your family without you taking your own steps to contribute as well such as getting an education or suitable job training and being responsible with your finances. You must take responsibility for yourself and your family and then you can trust that God will fill in the gaps when they happen. Dare I also say that using NFP responsibly to hold off on having another baby is probably a good idea when you’re struggling to put food on the table for the ones you already have. The Church does allow us this tool to use for that purpose. So having baby after baby after baby and just expecting that “God will provide” when your barely able to keep food on the table probably isn’t a good idea either. We have to take some responsibility here and make good choices along with trusting God to help us when we need it. It’s a two way street.
 
DarkLight said:
I think it’s the money thing that’s weird. Many people want to marry someone of a similar education level, but it’s usually not about money. It’s just harder for many people to relate to someone with radically different education levels.
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I think this depends on what field of education people have. Academic types who are into research probably aren’t going to have a lot in common with somebody who never stepped foot in a classroom and drives a garbage truck.

But I’m a year away from having my nursing degree (BSN) and my husband never went to college and it makes absolutely no difference in our relationship. We have more in common than most couples we know. He’s also ten bazillion times smarter than me despite not having a piece of paper to prove it.
 
masondoggy said:
I think this is very true. We can’t be passive about trusting in the Lord. It’s not like we can say “God, I trust you to help me pay the bills this month” and then sit back on your bum playing video games waiting for money to magically show up.
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We knew a family that basically took this attitude. At lease, the husband/father did. The mom and kids, when they were older, all had jobs to help bring in some money. The father’s attitude was to just stay happy and enjoy life, moved from job to job, believing that God would provide. Meanwhile, their house was literally falling apart. 🤷
 
on_the_hill said:
We knew a family that basically took this attitude. At lease, the husband/father did. The mom and kids, when they were older, all had jobs to help bring in some money. The father’s attitude was to just stay happy and enjoy life, moved from job to job, believing that God would provide. Meanwhile, their house was literally falling apart. 🤷
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Yea, I think that’s just taking advantage of God’s generosity. Maybe even borderline sinful?
 
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