Does everything happen for a reason?

[levinas12]

There’s a wonderful movie that addresses this question:

The Five People You Meet In Heaven (starring Jon Voight)

This movie is based on an equally wonderful book with the same title.

Has anyone seen the movie or read the book?

Maybe the old favorite, It’s a Wonderful Life, might fit into this category too.

 

[Sair]

With much love and respect♥
… it breaks my heart to think God would “want” a child to be raped, or abused, or aborted.

I know your heart means well, in saying that, because God is in control of all things…

With that said, I understand what you mean (I used to say "everything happens for a reason myself) until I came across a person that had LITTLE faith and just got raped.

Much as I was fortunate not to have anything truly awful happen to me in my youth, I was continually fed the line that “everything happens for a reason” whenever anything unpleasant or difficult occurred. In a way, that actually made it harder to deal with, since it really suggested that someone either had it in for me or just found me a spitefully entertaining outlet - and, being raised Catholic, that ‘someone’ could really only be God…

 

[Sair]

Im very grateful for this post, because it brings awareness to the choice of words that society uses to express why evil happens.

I grew up and was abused and raped by my stepfather. And my biological father wanted me aborted…and bless my fathers heart, he wanted a boy…i was a girl…(and this is first time I share this in an open public space) I just feel after much prayer, that it is necessary, that us christians need to CHOOSE differentt words, the last thing a person wants to hear after such tragedy is “everything happens for a reason” a christian may be able to handle those words…but think about it…our mission is to bring those to non- believers to know God♥

I am so, so sorry to hear of your horrible experiences, and I hope you have been able to find the strength and support to overcome them and live a fulfilling and rewarding life.

I think you are very right to say that it’s unwise to declare that any recognisable god intended these things to happen, because any such god would be a monster.

I also think you’re right that it’s not going to win converts to suggest that the Christian God allows these actions a place in his ultimate plan. But to be honest, I don’t see how, philosophically, it can be denied, given the attributes ascribed to the Christian God.

 

[Sair]

Scientists used to think that “junk” DNA is purposeless…

Even if there are uncaused submicroscopic events the principle of causality is still a valid basis for a rational existence.

Just pointing out that the designation ‘junk DNA’ doesn’t mean it ceases to have any effect at all - only that it’s not the primary active component in the way an organism functions, even if that particular genetic combination had some useful effect in the evolutionary history of the lineage that carries it…

And in any case, why is ‘leftover’ genetic material required to have a purpose? Why can’t it just exert an influence, just because it does - or not, if it doesn’t? Does every effect require not only a cause, but an active intention?

After all, DNA determines - for example - that whales still have minute hind limb bones, buried within their bodies. What’s the purpose of that? They don’t appear to use them as sexual claspers, as their prehistoric predecessors probably did when the actual limbs were somewhat more prominent. So what ::are:: these now-redundant limb bones for, if they’re not an evolutionary remnant? It makes sense to suppose they’re just there because they deteriorated through generations of decreasing necessity; rather less sense to think they’re there to fulfil some conscious being’s intended purpose. It all sounds like evolutionary happenstance rather than intentional planning - and if you say that this is how your God intended evolution to function, how would you go about supporting such a claim, in the face of the fact that it looks for all the world like it just happened out of practical necessity, without conscious intent?

 

[levinas12]

Why does evil happen?

During Lent and Holy Week, this question looms large. Why did Jesus have to suffer so much?

As Catholics, we acknowledge that God the Father “permitted” the Passion to happen. But why?

I cannot explain evil, or, more theologically phrased, the Fall and Original Sin and the existence of Satan and his minions.

But I understand the reason for the Passion of Jesus. It occurred to show us what we are like in the absence of God - when we rely on our own resources and try to live without God’s help. By ourselves, we are no different from the people who abused Jesus - we hate and inflict pain on others on a daily basis.

But the Passion is not only a “mirror” of human monstrosity - all of human history is such a mirror - the Passion shows us a “way out” (in fact, “enables” a “way out”) - the way of self-sacrificial love in the midst of evil.

When we see ourselves in this mirror, and realize how helpless we are as sinners, we have a choice. We can try to cope on our own (which won’t work). Or we can ask for God’s grace. If we do the latter, Jesus will come and lead us out of the dark valley and bring us back to the Father.

.

 

[Sair]

Scientists used to think that “junk” DNA is purposeless…

Even if there are uncaused submicroscopic events the principle of causality is still a valid basis for a rational existence.

And actually, as you say, the principle of causality is valid for rational existence; and not only that but it really is ::the:: basis for rational existence - the ability to reason is primarily the ability to perceive cause-and-effect relationships, as I’ve pointed out before.

 

[Sair]

Not everything happens for a reason, but meaning can be found in everything.

Indeed it can - and, I might point out, with an entirely secular outlook! It depends, largely, upon your ability to consider meaning in an immediate, contemporary, material, changeable - rather than a universal/eternal, spiritual, permanent - context.

 

[tonyrey]

And actually, as you say, the principle of causality is valid for rational existence; and not only that but it really is ::the:: basis for rational existence - the ability to reason is primarily the ability to perceive cause-and-effect relationships, as I’ve pointed out before.

I entirely agree with you with regard to the principle of causality as a basis for rational existence but not as the source of rational existence. You regard persons as products whereas I regard persons as directors!

 

[levinas12]

Or we can ask for God’s grace. If we do the latter, Jesus will come and lead us out of the dark valley and bring us back to the Father.

.

I should add that the grace is not “cheap”. Jesus will ask us to join Him in His Dance of self-sacrificial love.

 

[Sair]

I voted yes, but I should clarify. My belief is that every natural, “chance” event that occurs happens because God wants it to. He has some reason for making it happen. That being said, our free will allows us to commit actions that do not jive with God’s plan. So, I think that human actions are the only events that sometimes do not have a bigger purpose or plan behind them.

How can this be so if God knows (in advance) the secrets of our hearts, so to speak?

 

[Sair]

Romans 8:28 We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.

While I answered “yes” in the poll, I think that while there may seem to be no reason behind some stuff, God is still able to work it out for our good. Yes, people make bad choices, including those that hurt little children. I may not have the answer here, but God does. And I’m learning to lean on him because of this.

Dare I ask whether this god ever sees fit to share his reasons with those who invest belief in him…?

 

[tonyrey]

Just pointing out that the designation ‘junk DNA’ doesn’t mean it ceases to have any effect at all - only that it’s not the primary active component in the way an organism functions, even if that particular genetic combination had some useful effect in the evolutionary history of the lineage that carries it…

It was considered to be a disproof of Design because it seemed to be predominant.

And in any case, why is ‘leftover’ genetic material required to have a purpose? Why can’t it just exert an influence, just because it does - or not, if it doesn’t? Does every effect require not only a cause, but an active intention?

I have often pointed out that purposeless events are inevitable in an immensely complex universe.

After all, DNA determines - for example - that whales still have minute hind limb bones, buried within their bodies. What’s the purpose of that? They don’t appear to use them as sexual claspers, as their prehistoric predecessors probably did when the actual limbs were somewhat more prominent. So what ::are:: these now-redundant limb bones for, if they’re not an evolutionary remnant? It makes sense to suppose they’re just there because they deteriorated through generations of decreasing necessity; rather less sense to think they’re there to fulfil some conscious being’s intended purpose. It all sounds like evolutionary happenstance rather than intentional planning - and if you say that this is how your God intended evolution to function, how would you go about supporting such a claim, in the face of the fact that it looks for all the world like it just happened out of practical necessity, without conscious intent?

The flaw in the notion of “practical necessity” is its assumption that development was (is and will be) inevitable. There is no obvious reason why “your” purposeless universe should entail development of any description…

To put purposeless events before conscious intent undermines your argument!

 

[Sair]

I entirely agree with you with regard to the principle of causality as a basis for rational existence but not as the source of rational existence. You regard persons as products whereas I regard persons as directors!

Why can’t we be both, in context?

 

[Sair]

It was considered to be a disproof of Design because it seemed to be predominant.

I have often pointed out that purposeless events are inevitable in an immensely complex universe.

The flaw in the notion of “practical necessity” is its assumption that development was (is and will be) inevitable. There is no obvious reason why “your” purposeless universe should entail development of any description…

To put purposeless events before conscious intent undermines your argument!

Then if your god has all this mapped out and pre-planned and anticipated, let him explain it.

Until such time as this divine explanation is forthcoming, scientific investigation will continue to pursue what it ::can:: discern…

 

[tonyrey]

Dare I ask whether this god ever sees fit to share his reasons with those who invest belief in him…?

If a sceptic like Richard Dawkins recognises the value of the Sermon on the Mount that question is obviously superfluous…

 

[tonyrey]

Then if your god has all this mapped out and pre-planned and anticipated, let him explain it.

Until such time as this divine explanation is forthcoming, scientific investigation will continue to pursue what it ::can:: discern…

If scientific investigation is your sole source of information and inspiration “your” purposeless universe obviously requires no explanation or elucidation!

 

[tonyrey]

Why can’t we be both, in context?

Occam’s Razor has to slice off the less significant at some point…

 

[zro_x]

How can this be so if God knows (in advance) the secrets of our hearts, so to speak?

God knows in advance the secrets of our hearts, but he creates us anyway because our existence somehow makes things better than if we had not existed, either for ourselves or for others. So when people sin they go against God’s original plan, but God can bring good out of that sin–just not as much good as would have been around if the person hadn’t sinned.

It isn’t possible for God to make people who never sin, that has to be by our own choice. so God couldn’t have made a society where everyone follows his plan. He has to work with sinful human beings.

 

[JamesCaruso]

As Catholics, we believe that the Omnipotent, Omniscient and All Loving God considered all the infinite possibilities that could be, and foreseeing everything that would happen upon His creation of the universe, chose the best of outcomes, the foreseen free will decisions of mankind also being considered. What He set in motion He did so with the most beneficial ends in mind, already knowing the results down to the tiniest detail.

He did not set the universe in motion and then abandon it to develop entirely on its own, like the clockmaker who creates a clock, winds it up, and then leaves the room. No, Jesus Himself showed how God intervenes when He calmed the waves of the sea, cured illnesses and raised people from the dead.

You might say, the present intervention of God was foreseen and implemented at the singular moment of creation, for with God there is no time. God’s Providence is hardwired into the universe.

And do not forget His Justice. Somehow, no one gets short shrift in God’s universe, although humanly speaking, it sometimes seems so. But only the seer of all outcomes is in a position to make that judgment.

Sadly, the piece of bread that God wishes to provide to our neighbor, is in our cupboard, and we have neglected to share it. But even that was foreseen and provided for.

More sadly, the good work that we could have done and which would allow our neighbor to experience the love of God leading to his salvation, we did not do. But this too was foreseen and provided for.

We can play a key role in the carrying out of God’s plan, or we can go with the flow and ignore our intended role, either way God’s plan will be accomplished, although our personal eternal destiny will depend on our actions and failures to act alone.

 

[The_Reginator]

As Catholics, we believe that the Omnipotent, Omniscient and All Loving God considered all the infinite possibilities that could be, and foreseeing everything that would happen upon His creation of the universe, chose the best of outcomes, the foreseen free will decisions of mankind also being considered. What He set in motion He did so with the most beneficial ends in mind, already knowing the results down to the tiniest detail.

He did not set the universe in motion and then abandon it to develop entirely on its own, like the clockmaker who creates a clock, winds it up, and then leaves the room. No, Jesus Himself showed how God intervenes when He calmed the waves of the sea, cured illnesses and raised people from the dead.

1. GOD CONTROLS ALL EVENTS, WHETHER GOOD OR BAD

Nothing happens in the the universe without God willing and allowing it.  This statement must he taken absolutely of everything with the exception of sin.  'Nothing occurs by chance in the whole course of our lives' is the unanimous teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, 'and God intervenes everywhere.'

Everyone should read Trustful Surrender to Divine ProvidenceThe main idea contained in this book is that God is both all-knowing and all-loving. God is the only Being that can see ‘the big picture’ as He dwells outside of time. All that happens to us has one over riding goal: everything happens for the good of our immortal souls.

Was Jesus just joking when he said that every hair on our head has been counted? God cares about EVERYTHING.