Does faith change a person?

[lanman87]

Is there such a thing as divorce? When people marry for the first time, do they do it with the idea of being divorced in the future?

I’m going to argue the OSAS position, later I may argue the “free will” position. I can do both pretty well.

Apparently there is not thing as divorce according to Catholic Doctrine. That once two people are genuinely joined together nothing, not even the church, can separate them, not even for infidelity. They can live apart and treat each other like garbage but in the eyes of the church they are still married and will be until one of them dies. That looks a lot like the OSAS position in regard to our relationship with God. Edit-except God doesn’t treat us like garbage.

God also illustrates our relationship as a Parent/Child relationship. Is it possible for someone to stop being someones child? If I go around proclaiming that my mother is not my mother does that mean she is no longer my mother?

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

Is there such a thing as divorce? When people marry for the first time, do they do it with the idea of being divorced in the future?

I’m going to argue the OSAS position, later I may argue the “free will” position.

Ok.

I can do both pretty well.

stunned

Apparently there is not thing as divorce according to Catholic Doctrine.

That’s true. What God has joined together, let no man tear asunder.

That once two people are genuinely joined together nothing, not even the church, can separate them, not even for infidelity. They can live apart and treat each other like garbage but in the eyes of the church they are still married and will be until one of them dies. That looks a lot like the OSAS position in regard to our relationship with God.

Not really. Think about it. What happens when two married people are hell bent on leaving each other. It doesn’t matter to them if the Church grants them a divorce or not. They still leave each other.

And that is what happens when a person decides that he doesn’t want to remain in a relationship with God. It doesn’t matter to him if God says that He has made him a new man and permanently marked him as His son. The person who wants to end the relationship will still leave.

Catholicism acknowledges this possibility.

Edit-except God doesn’t treat us like garbage.

No. But those who want to leave the Church or who want to get out of a relationship with God, will treat God like garbage.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

God also illustrates our relationship as a Parent/Child relationship. Is it possible for someone to stop being someones child?

But is it possible for a child to runaway. Sadly, there have even been cases of parents leaving their children or worse.

If I go around proclaiming that my mother is not my mother does that mean she is no longer my mother?

Of course not. But if a person runs away or if the mother leaves that child, the outcome is the same.

The Church believes, as someone already said, that in Baptism, we receive God’s permanent mark, God’s sign that we are His. But that doesn’t save us if we become disobedient children.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[ColorMomma]

That looks a lot like a church I went to Mass at while visiting Idaho. Am I correct?

 

[lanman87]

That looks a lot like a church I went to Mass at while visiting Idaho. Am I correct?

No, it is Sacred Heart in Cullman Alabama

It is not far from the Ava Maria Grotto

Which is on the campus of St. Bernard Abby

Which is about 15-20 miles from the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament

Which is about 30-40 miles from the EWTN studios in Irondale Alabama

I grew up in Cullman County Alabama. From the age of 5-19 I knew exactly two Catholics. One was my 2nd Grade Teacher and the other was a girl in HS. I remember being a small boy and occasionally seeing nuns and monks around town. I was quite a site considering the majority religious affiliation in Cullman Alabama (and all of Alabama) is Southern Baptist.

 

[Bon_Croix]

Grace changes a person. Faith is a grace.

 

[De_Maria]

ColorMomma:

That looks a lot like a church I went to Mass at while visiting Idaho. Am I correct?

No, it is Sacred Heart in Cullman Alabama

It is not far from the Ava Maria Grotto

Which is on the campus of St. Bernard Abby

Which is about 15-20 miles from the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament

Which is about 30-40 miles from the EWTN studios in Irondale Alabama

I grew up in Cullman County Alabama. From the age of 5-19 I knew exactly two Catholics. One was my 2nd Grade Teacher and the other was a girl in HS. I remember being a small boy and occasionally seeing nuns and monks around town. I was quite a site considering the majority religious affiliation in Cullman Alabama (and all of Alabama) is Southern Baptist.

Beautiful country. We went there about 5 years ago when our family friend considered becoming a nun.

God’s ways are mysterious. Have you ever read the story of how EWTN came to be in Hanceville, Alabama?

 

[rcwitness]

I’m going to argue the OSAS position, later I may argue the “free will” position. I can do both pretty well.

Apparently there is not thing as divorce according to Catholic Doctrine. That once two people are genuinely joined together nothing, not even the church, can separate them, not even for infidelity. They can live apart and treat each other like garbage but in the eyes of the church they are still married and will be until one of them dies. That looks a lot like the OSAS position in regard to our relationship with God. Edit-except God doesn’t treat us like garbage.

God also illustrates our relationship as a Parent/Child relationship. Is it possible for someone to stop being someones child? If I go around proclaiming that my mother is not my mother does that mean she is no longer my mother?

The essence of the permanency of Holy Matrimony until death is that, so long as we are still alive, there is a door to reconciliation.

Likewise, as long as we are living, Jesus will always Reconcile us with God, if we reconcile with Him.

Moses permitted/tolerated divorce and remarriage (on account of hard heartedness), but Jesus re-established Matrimony to His standard. And we know His righteousness is greater than the Pharisees. And we, who participate in Holy Matrimony (and all Sacraments) are receiving His righteousness, merit, and grace.