Does freedom of religion include forcing your religious beliefs on others?

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interestedman

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If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
 
In the case of the mandate, the mandate says that the insurance companies, all of them, have to include birth control services in their women’s health package. It’s an across the board mandate, for example just like taxes, no different than taxes. Further, the mandate is resting the responsibility on the insurance company. It has nothing to do with the employers, because all insurance companies have these benefits in their package, across the board. If all insurance companies have to provide these services, then all of them have to provide the services. The mandate also says that all employers that meet a certain criteria must provide insurance for their employees, which must include women’s health care services. This is an across the board mandate, for example just like taxes, no different than taxes. If this is what the mandate says, and the mandate is for everyone, then there should be no opt-outs for anyone who owns a business. If the employee doesn’t want to use a specific benefit, for whatever reason, then they don’t. No one is forcing them to use any government mandated-insurance provided benefit.
 
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
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Does beig an atheist require you to force your beliefs on everyone?
 
Rence said:
In the case of the mandate, the mandate says that the insurance companies, all of them, have to include birth control services in their women’s health package. It’s an across the board mandate, for example just like taxes, no different than taxes. Further, the mandate is resting the responsibility on the insurance company. It has nothing to do with the employers, because all insurance companies have these benefits in their package, across the board. If all insurance companies have to provide these services, then all of them have to provide the services. The mandate also says that all employers that meet a certain criteria must provide insurance for their employees, which must include women’s health care services. This is an across the board mandate, for example just like taxes, no different than taxes. If this is what the mandate says, and the mandate is for everyone, then there should be no opt-outs for anyone who owns a business. If the employee doesn’t want to use a specific benefit, for whatever reason, then they don’t. No one is forcing them to use any government mandated-insurance provided benefit.
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There are exceptions, for the Amish, Christian Care ministry, Native Americans, Insurance companies, 111 unions and others are exempted from having to comply with ObamaTax.

Obama admin is picking and choose who can practise their faith and who can not. Part of the reasoning for Hercules industries winning their lawsuit against the HHS mandate was for Judge John Kane the fact that there are 191 million who are exempted mandate for non religious reasons, but the government says to some that you have to abide by the mandate. So the Judge said if you are exempting all these for political reasons then how can you put respect for religion at the bottom and say they must comply with the mandate
 
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
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How does not providing something equal forcing something? Employers do not provide lots of things yet who would say they are forcing employees to not do whatever it is they do not provide?
 
_Abyssinia said:
There are exceptions, for the Amish, Christian Care ministry, Native Americans, Insurance companies, 111 unions and others are exempted from having to comply with ObamaTax.
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I don’t know anything about Christian Care ministry, but I do know that the Amish are independent and don’t pay taxes because they don’t use any government funded resources. They are self sufficient and their funding is raised by the community. Catholics could do this too. If they did this too, then they wouldn’t have to worry about paying taxes or any mandates like this.
 
interestedman said:
Are atheists shutting down churches? How are atheists forcing their beliefs on people?
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Supporting the gay agenda by trying to redefine what has already been defined, by hatespeach and propaganda to make the Church appear to be bigoted and hateful, by persuading people to think that if they folow religion they are unintelligent and primitive, etc.

Those are just a few examples. Id say that qualifies as ramming your views down everyone’s throats.
 
interestedman said:
Are atheists shutting down churches? How are atheists forcing their beliefs on people?
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They are shutting down orphanages.

bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2011/12/29/illinois-catholic-charities-close-rather-than-allow-same-sex-couples-adopt-children/Km9RBLkpKzABNLJbUGhvJM/story.html

boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/03/11/catholic_charities_stuns_state_ends_adoptions/

In other words: Catholics following their faith = Bad.

Secularist acting through the state to enforce their disbelief = doubleplusgood!
 
salusanimarum17 said:
How does not providing something equal forcing something? Employers do not provide lots of things yet who would say they are forcing employees to not do whatever it is they do not provide?
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Personally, I don’t care if the mandate sticks or not but if it sticks, then it should stick for everyone. The better employers have always offered health insurance benefits for their employees, and that reflected in the type of employee they attracted as a result. So they get their pick of employees over the employer who does not provide benefits. But once it’s mandated, then it’s mandated. If the mandate sticks, then all employers meeting specific criteria will have to do it.
 
Rence said:
In the case of the mandate, the mandate says that the insurance companies, all of them, have to include birth control services in their women’s health package. It’s an across the board mandate, for example just like taxes, no different than taxes. Further, the mandate is resting the responsibility on the insurance company. It has nothing to do with the employers, because all insurance companies have these benefits in their package, across the board. If all insurance companies have to provide these services, then all of them have to provide the services. The mandate also says that all employers that meet a certain criteria must provide insurance for their employees, which must include women’s health care services. This is an across the board mandate, for example just like taxes, no different than taxes. If this is what the mandate says, and the mandate is for everyone, then there should be no opt-outs for anyone who owns a business. If the employee doesn’t want to use a specific benefit, for whatever reason, then they don’t. No one is forcing them to use any government mandated-insurance provided benefit.
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You have a different take than the bishops.

(And we’re back on the “it’s a tax” argument?)
 
Rence said:
I don’t know anything about Christian Care ministry, but I do know that the Amish are independent and don’t pay taxes because they don’t use any government funded resources. They are self sufficient and their funding is raised by the community. Catholics could do this too. If they did this too, then they wouldn’t have to worry about paying taxes or any mandates like this.
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This is a bit of an overstatement. Amish do not pay Social Security or Medicare taxes because they are specifically exempt from them and do not claim benefits from either of those programs. However, Amish pay all other federal, state, and local taxes including federal income tax.
 
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
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Let’s not mince words.

Since when has free birth control been a “right”?
 
CrimsonThorn said:
Supporting the gay agenda by trying to redefine what has already been defined, by hatespeach and propaganda to make the Church appear to be bigoted and hateful, by persuading people to think that if they folow religion they are unintelligent and primitive, etc.

Those are just a few examples. Id say that qualifies as ramming your views down everyone’s throats.
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But a lot of those people aren’t atheists…many are Christians. :confused:
 
Danielski said:
This is a bit of an overstatement. Amish do not pay Social Security or Medicare taxes because they are specifically exempt from them and do not claim benefits from either of those programs. However, Amish pay all other federal, state, and local taxes including federal income tax.
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However, the Catholics could do the same and avoid paying social security and medicare taxes and would be excempt from this mandate as well if they didn’t claim any benefits from those programs. Being involved in a multi-cultural network means there will be some benefits and services that some will use, while others will not.
 
Rence said:
Personally, I don’t care if the mandate sticks or not but if it sticks, then it should stick for everyone. The better employers have always offered health insurance benefits for their employees, and that reflected in the type of employee they attracted as a result. So they get their pick of employees over the employer who does not provide benefits. But once it’s mandated, then it’s mandated. If the mandate sticks, then all employers meeting specific criteria will have to do it.
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I don’t know how this relates to the questions I asked.
 
Rence said:
I don’t know anything about Christian Care ministry, but I do know that the Amish are independent and don’t pay taxes because they don’t use any government funded resources. They are self sufficient and their funding is raised by the community. Catholics could do this too. If they did this too, then they wouldn’t have to worry about paying taxes or any mandates like this.
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But what the others that are exempted for non religious reasons? Is it fair that they get an exception, but religious liberty is not held to enough importance by Obama that those who do not want to pay for morally objectionable drugs are forced to pay them?
 
Rence said:
However, the Catholics could do the same and avoid paying social security and medicare taxes and would be excempt from this mandate as well if they didn’t claim any benefits from those programs. Being involved in a multi-cultural network means there will be some benefits and services that some will use, while others will not.
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That is not true. It would take an act of Congress in order to be exempt from those programs, it’s not like there is a form to fill out saying that you would like to be exempt from social security tax and you promise not to collect benefits.
 
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
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This is about as backwards and upside down as anything could be.

You really think someone should be forced to buy something they believe is immoral for someone else or they are being coercive.

I would definitely say it is the other way around.

How would you like to be forced into buying bibles to leave at all the motels and hotels. I bet you would think this is coercive even if you didn’t have to read them.

If someone wants something they can buy it for themselves.
 
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