Does God bear some responsibility for our sins?

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In our Priest’s weekly column in the Sunday bulletin this week, he was discussing “Evil”. He was expanding on St. Paul’s statement that, “God makes all things work together for the good of those who love God”. He then quickly moved on to the age old question, “Why does God permit evil?”. I was expecting more discussion on free will, but instead, he went in a different direction explaining that God permits evil (agreed), but he then moved from that to, “If God permits a thing, then God is somehow responsible for that thing”. He only mentioned our own guilt when he said, “Even though God bears some responsibility for our sins, that in no way diminshes our own guilt”.

Saying that God bears some responsibility for my sins doesn’t sit right with me. Is it correct to say that God bears some responsibility for our own sins?
 
gat6325 said:
In our Priest’s weekly column in the Sunday bulletin this week, he was discussing “Evil”. He was expanding on St. Paul’s statement that, “God makes all things work together for the good of those who love God”. He then quickly moved on to the age old question, “Why does God permit evil?”. I was expecting more discussion on free will, but instead, he went in a different direction explaining that God permits evil (agreed), but he then moved from that to, “If God permits a thing, then God is somehow responsible for that thing”. He only mentioned our own guilt when he said, “Even though God bears some responsibility for our sins, that in no way diminshes our own guilt”.

Saying that God bears some responsibility for my sins doesn’t sit right with me. Is it correct to say that God bears some responsibility for our own sins?
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no, we bear full responsiblity for our sins. God doesn’t tempt us or force/permit us to sin. He is there to fight for us ( thats why He sent His only son Jesus to die and raise for us) against sin but He doesn’t bear any responsiblity for our sins. Perhaps what your priest meant was that He doesn’t bear any responsibility for our sins but feels that He ought to take on the responsibility of fighting for us against sin ( which He conquered when He sent Jesus) because He loves us?

God Bless
Podo
 
God is perfectly good and does not “bear responsibility” for our sins. Your instincts as you described in your post are correct; the ability of men to sin is a radical possibility due to free will. That is to say, he who sins has himself to blame, and cannot hold God responsible.
 
gat6325 said:
In our Priest’s weekly column in the Sunday bulletin this week, he was discussing “Evil”. He was expanding on St. Paul’s statement that, “God makes all things work together for the good of those who love God”. He then quickly moved on to the age old question, “Why does God permit evil?”. I was expecting more discussion on free will, but instead, he went in a different direction explaining that God permits evil (agreed), but he then moved from that to, “If God permits a thing, then God is somehow responsible for that thing”. He only mentioned our own guilt when he said, “Even though God bears some responsibility for our sins, that in no way diminshes our own guilt”.

Saying that God bears some responsibility for my sins doesn’t sit right with me. Is it correct to say that God bears some responsibility for our own sins?
Click to expand...
God bears no responsibility for our sins.

I hope you’re planning to notify the priest’s bishop, psychiatrist, or preferably, both, ASAP.
 
My first reaction was that maybe it was a slip of the tongue by your priest gat6325. Then I read the post again and saw that he wrote it. I wonder what he’s thinking ?

The words “free will” themselves imply that we are free to make our own decisions…totally free - the way God intended it to be. In the case of our own sinfulness, I remember my father saying that this could be a “terrible freedom”. But if God is responsible (even the least bit) for our sins, that would mean our free will wasn’t total free will…just a partially free will … which then isn’t really free at all; so perhaps more appropriately labeled “hindered will”.

Mental health professionals repeat frequently to patients and to their family members that, “Everyone is responsible for their own actions.”

Sometimes a column like that is an invitation or reminder to pray for our priests. I agree fully with the way you saw it…too bad Father didn’t see it that way.
 
Here is the entire column titled, “Evil is a Mystery”. The offending statement is in the eight paragraph (I’ve bolded it to make it stand out).

I don’t know that anything said before or after he mentions that God bears some responsibility for our sins changes the context of that specific statement.
St. Paul wrote that “God makes all
things work together for the good of
those who love God.” Sounds
comforting and we believe it most
days. But on bad days, we wonder just how evil is turned to
good. Or why evil exists in the first place.

Some people say that evil just happens. Maybe so. But that’s
not good enough. We want to know why. When a Jewish
congregation was rounded up during the Holocaust, the rabbi
threw up his hands and cried, “If I only was God!” One of the
people asked, “What would you do differently if you were
God?” The rabbi replied, “I wouldn’t do anything differently -
but at least I would understand.”

Nor would we do anything differently in the world if we were
God. Because that is what God does. God lets evil happen.

Some people excuse God by saying that God does not actually
do bad things. He just permits them. That’s a nice distinction,
and it gets God off the hook. Until we delve deeper. If God
permits a thing, then God is somehow responsible for that
thing. Since God created fire, God is responsible for the ashes.
Whatever happens on God’s watch is on God.

Nor is it enough for God to take responsibility; we demand
action. It is not enough for the President to tell a reporter, “I
take full responsibility for the violence in Iraq. Now watch how
far I hit this golf ball.” Taking responsibility doesn’t cost
anything; It is useful only when it undoes the evil or makes
something good come out of it.

We don’t know how God justifies all the evil that He allows.
We don’t know how God rectifies all the bad things that he
permits. We don’t know how God turns into something good
the evil that He empowers. If we knew those things, then we
would be God. So, in the face of the mystery of evil, we are
reduced to a raw belief that God will somehow make all things
well in God’s own way.

But what about the evil inside us? That evil which God indeed
permits but is equally our choice, that evil for which both God
and we are responsible? Jesus is pretty clear on this point. One
day, when the disciples asked Him why a tower had fallen on
some people and why others were massacred at prayer, Jesus
offered no excuses for God. He simply said that they were no
better or worse than the disciples - and all of them would perish
if they didn’t repent.

Even though God bears some responsibility for our sins, that in
no way diminishes our own guilt. Our freedom is not
overpowered by God’s action. Our bad choices take place
within the broader circle of God’s freedom. Responsible people
may never say it’s God’s fault or the devil made me do it or I
was just following orders or I had no choice. We always have a
choice. That is the glory of being human and free.

After all of our explanations and excuses for our own behavior,
we have to face up to our responsibility. And after all of our
musings about the mysterious ways of God, we must live with
reality. The great author, C.S. Lewis writes that “in the end
there are only two kinds of people: those who say to God ‘Your
will be done,’ and those to whom God says ‘Your will be
done’.”

Jesus gives us a choice - repent or perish. We are responsible
for the evil that we do. But if we accept responsibility ad try to
make it right, then our finite guilt is absorbed in the infinite sea
of God’ mercy.
 
Wow, nice post gat6325… you put some work into this one.

I might go out on a ledge here and offer two comments.
  1. “Even though God bears some responsibility for our sins”, is simply incorrect. Perhaps it’s due to a distorted definition of the word responsible on Father’s part.
“Responsible” means being accountable or the main identifying cause of something. How can God be accountable or the cause of our sin?..you’re so right - it doesn’t make sense. The last time I checked, when I went to Confession, God was only on one side of the confessional - not both.
  1. Did you notice he contradicts himself if we look at pph 8 and then pph 10?..:
Even though **God **bears some responsibility for our sins (pph 8)

We are responsible for the evil that we do. (pph 10)

Hopefully you’ll generate some other comments we can read too.Thanks for the work you’ve put into the thread
 
@NeedImprovement:

Although I agree with your assessment of the article’s inaccuracy, for the sake of completeness I should point out that your 2nd point does not seem to be valid. You accuse the article of self-contradiction based on paragraphs 8 and 10. However, note that paragraph 10 does not say we are the only ones responsible for our sins. Thus, although p.8 is misguided, it does not inherently contradict p.10.

@gat:

Thank you for posting the entire article. Aside from the problems already pointed out, there is another error in paragraph 10. Here, the author discusses sin that causes man to “perish” if he does not repent. Such sin is known as “mortal” and is not finite but rather infinite, and contracts an infinite debt.
…the debt contracted by mortal sin is infinite, on account of the infinite majesty of God, which has been offended.
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catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/vice/impurity.htm
 
Miles_Mariae said:
@NeedImprovement:

Although I agree with your assessment of the article’s inaccuracy, for the sake of completeness I should point out that your 2nd point does not seem to be valid. You accuse the article of self-contradiction based on paragraphs 8 and 10. However, note that paragraph 10 does not say we are the only ones responsible for our sins. Thus, although p.8 is misguided, it does not inherently contradict p.10.
…
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Thanks for pointing that out Miles Mariae. If I were debating with you, I might answer that: Conversely, neither does the author clearly state, “But if ***we and others ***accept responsibility” nor, But if ***we and God ***accept responsibility,"… ie he could just as easily be speaking solely in the first person collectively,

But I’m not debating with you - I’m much more inclined to agree with you. That second comment was more of an afterthought.
 
gat6325 said:
“Even though God bears some responsibility for our sins, that in no way diminshes our own guilt”.

Saying that God bears some responsibility for my sins doesn’t sit right with me. Is it correct to say that God bears some responsibility for our own sins?
Click to expand...
Saying God bears responsibility for out sins is to not know what you are talking about. Lets rephrase the statement. Why do bad things happen. The answer to that is so that God can bring about a greater good.

To understand this we have to ask a question. What is the greatest evil that ever took place in human history. That answer is the crucifixion. Question two. What is the greatest good ever done for mankind. The answer is the same. The crucifixion.

Because God allows bad things to happen, does not mean he causes them. If that were so, there would be no such thing as free will. If we say God is guilty because he gave us free will, then we have to ask another question. If that makes him guilty, why are we the ones that are punished. Such logic, if you can call it that, is extremely faulty. While we have free will, we are not free to sin. That is why there is punishment. Through free will cooperating with Gods grace, we can repent, and God is there to immediately forgive us. Does that sound like guilt on God’s part. I don’t think so. .

We have a loving God who cares for us so much, that he knew before creation took place that he would have to suffer on the cross so that we may be saved. Yet he still did so. Only God can love this much. Lets not be so stupid as to blame him on our own sinfulness.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
If God wants us to be holy He has to grant us free will.
If God grants us free will He gives us the choice of sin.
If we are to learn from our wrong choices of sin then we need to see the consequences of those choices.
From learning the consequences of those sins, as a people, we can repent and be holy.

I don’t think He bears any responsibility when looking at creation as a whole. From a limited segmented view you can make the case that He does bear responsibility. In my opinion the overall view trumps the limited segmented view.

Even if it was the other way, i don’t know of too many courts of Law that has juristiction over God, if we were wanting to impeach Him. 🙂
 
abucs said:
From a limited segmented view you can make the case that He does bear responsibility.
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Not sure exactly what you mean by “you can make the case”, but such a claim would be incorrect.
 
I think he needs to be reported to the Bishop for teaching something I believe is quite heretical.
 
gat6325 said:
In our Priest’s weekly column in the Sunday bulletin this week, he was discussing “Evil”. He was expanding on St. Paul’s statement that, “God makes all things work together for the good of those who love God”. He then quickly moved on to the age old question, “Why does God permit evil?”. I was expecting more discussion on free will, but instead, he went in a different direction explaining that God permits evil (agreed), but he then moved from that to, “If God permits a thing, then God is somehow responsible for that thing”. He only mentioned our own guilt when he said, “Even though God bears some responsibility for our sins, that in no way diminshes our own guilt”.

Saying that God bears some responsibility for my sins doesn’t sit right with me. Is it correct to say that God bears some responsibility for our own sins?
Click to expand...
Did you approach him about his sermon? I would’ve.

You know…I’ve met a lot of pretty smart catholics on this CAF. There is nothing wrong with having a Q&A with your priest about what you know and what you hear him saying that he knows.

Sometimes priests will get wrapped around the message they are trying to convey and the wrong wording will SNAFU everything up. If you don’t bring it to his attention (afterwards) things could go from SNAFU to TARFU real quick.
 
Perhaps he could be thinking along these lines:

I do evil
I am a creature
God created me

I am the proximate cause of an evil act
God is the remote cause, that is, the cause of the cause of the evil act

So we can assign God the responsibility of all creation.
God created sinners, who sin.
 
Evan said:
Perhaps he could be thinking along these lines:

I do evil
I am a creature
God created me

I am the proximate cause of an evil act
God is the remote cause, that is, the cause of the cause of the evil act

So we can assign God the responsibility of all creation.
God created sinners, who sin.
Click to expand...
Maybe we should blame God for abortions also. We were created for greatness. Our own concupiscence coupled with our free will is what drives the “bad choices” train. It’s real easy to blame God for this, that and the other thing.

God creates man and woman. Lucifer entices, woman sins and man follows.

…Who told you that you were naked?..What does Adam say?
the woman you created made me do it.

God goes to the woman and what does she say? The devil made me do it.

The only one that takes responsibility is the devil. Sort of the “buck stop here” kinda thing.

Our problem is that we think we can find our identities outside of God. Or, more of the same lie from the “garden”…" surely you will not die"…and we take it hook, line and sinker.

Our fault - us alone, not God.
 
God did take responsibility even though it was for our sins.

When he became man he took on all sins. He then gave us all we need to live in an imperfect world.

His teachings
His sacrifice
His sacraments

With this we can live eternally with him.

There is still much evil because we continue to ignore what he has given us. We continue to choose the wrong for the right.

To lay the blame, which is different for the responsiblity, at God’s feet, is like blaming the engineer who designed a dam for it’s failure when it was an earthquake the destroyed it. Can you really blame the engineer (though he was responsible for the dam) when earthquakes can occur of such magnitude there is nothing that can be made by man that can withstand such events. Blame the failure on the earthquake (the proximate cause) not the engineer (the distant cause). The engineer did everything possible for the proper construction of the dam. Once made, the dam must survive in the world and worldly things cannot be prevented from happening.

God gave us free will, we cannot be prevented from rejecting God without it’s removal.
 
I would first give him the chance to explain before I ran off to the Bishop…We all make mistakes…Be fair about it…If he doesn’t retract what he wrote then it’s a matter for the Bishop
 
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