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Wannano
Guest
Yes, agreed!Wannano:
Notice the Writing… “false teachers” and “bring the way of truth into disrepute;” these are active works against the Truth… just as Satan, the murderer and liar from the Beginning, who took the Word of God and perverted its Teaching: ‘you should not die’ and ‘go ahead, do as I say, make bread out of rocks, jump from the tallest building, God will not let anything happen to you.’ (paraphrased)
It is not just about contradicting teaching or inventing things; it is about taking the Word of God and twisting its Teaching/Meaning.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Exactly!
The Holy Spirit and Jesus’ Own Knowledge.
Sola Scriptura is a late invention–one that neither Jesus nor the Apostles employed or Taught.
Maran atha!
Angel
The Holy Spirit and Jesus’ Own Knowledge.
Sola Scriptura is a late invention–one that neither Jesus nor the Apostles employed or Taught.
Maran atha!
Angel
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feed_me
Guest
Now maybe i have it wrong but when i say sola scriptura from my pov it means using the bible only, not the catacism or anything else but the bible alone
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Benadam
Guest
St. Paul exampled the use of Pagan ritual to point to Christ. Granted he wasn’t able to effect a mass conversion but there were people including canonized Saints converted to Christ by Paul’s sermon to them.
Myth in the measure it is true can be pointed to it’s true object which is Christ. This is the method Paul sanctioned and the Church used effectively to convert the pagan nations. Now it’s acussed of paganism for it. The conversion of the pagan nations is for the most part a done deal and the Catholic Church carries in it’s treasury the truth expressed in the past. No matter where it’s found she loves truth.
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jcrichton
Guest
Do you not understand that the Apostles did not use scripted material?
The Written Tradition (Sacred Scriptures) was supporting their Oral Teaching: “as I have told you before” and “do you want me to come to you with Power or humility” (paraphrased) St. Paul is not silent and has “his letters” read about by the various communities (although that is indeed taking place); the Written Word is being used simultaneously with the Oral Tradition.
We don’t see everything that is taking place in the development of the Church; yet, we find that the Apostles were exiled from the Temple and the synagogues, that they were persecuted and forced to leave Jerusalem and all of the territories that comprised Israel, that heresies began to assault the Church, that Doctrine began to take shape, that the Church’s social justice ministry was established, that a lineated hierarchy was structured, that the Economy of the New Covenant was Spiritual Worship, that the Braking of the Bread was the center of Worship, that the Church sought the Authority and Guidance of the Apostles, that the Way gave in to Christians, that they ate and drank the Body and Blood of Christ… all of these things were taking place right at the onset of the Foundation of the Church and her inauguration at Pentecost Day–all of these were taking place even before they were set in Scriptures: Scriptures were the solidification of the Unfolding of the Church as the Holy Spirit Inspired the Apostles to Live, Teach, and Bring forth into the world, as Command by Christ: Go, Do, All that I’ve Commanded!
Maran atha!
Angel
The Written Tradition (Sacred Scriptures) was supporting their Oral Teaching: “as I have told you before” and “do you want me to come to you with Power or humility” (paraphrased) St. Paul is not silent and has “his letters” read about by the various communities (although that is indeed taking place); the Written Word is being used simultaneously with the Oral Tradition.
We don’t see everything that is taking place in the development of the Church; yet, we find that the Apostles were exiled from the Temple and the synagogues, that they were persecuted and forced to leave Jerusalem and all of the territories that comprised Israel, that heresies began to assault the Church, that Doctrine began to take shape, that the Church’s social justice ministry was established, that a lineated hierarchy was structured, that the Economy of the New Covenant was Spiritual Worship, that the Braking of the Bread was the center of Worship, that the Church sought the Authority and Guidance of the Apostles, that the Way gave in to Christians, that they ate and drank the Body and Blood of Christ… all of these things were taking place right at the onset of the Foundation of the Church and her inauguration at Pentecost Day–all of these were taking place even before they were set in Scriptures: Scriptures were the solidification of the Unfolding of the Church as the Holy Spirit Inspired the Apostles to Live, Teach, and Bring forth into the world, as Command by Christ: Go, Do, All that I’ve Commanded!
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Yes. That’s exactly the intended meaning.
Actually, it means: denouncing the Authority of the Church and claiming direct knowledge/revelation/inspiration from the Holy Spirit.
Is the Holy Spirit set against Christ?
Maran atha!
Angel
Actually, it means: denouncing the Authority of the Church and claiming direct knowledge/revelation/inspiration from the Holy Spirit.
Is the Holy Spirit set against Christ?
Maran atha!
Angel
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feed_me
Guest
Nope because the Holy Spirit and Christ are God
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feed_me
Guest
I havent touched a catacism in mostly never and I just read the Bible only.
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Wannano
Guest
Could you site actual examples of “the method?”Wannano:
St. Paul exampled the use of Pagan ritual to point to Christ. Granted he wasn’t able to effect a mass conversion but there were people including canonized Saints converted to Christ by Paul’s sermon to them.
Myth in the measure it is true can be pointed to it’s true object which is Christ. This is the method Paul sanctioned and the Church used effectively to convert the pagan nations. Now it’s acussed of paganism for it. The conversion of the pagan nations is for the most part a done deal and the Catholic Church carries in it’s treasury the truth expressed in the past. No matter where it’s found she loves truth.
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Benadam
Guest
I think it’s more about how the Holy Spirit is active when it comes to Oral and Written Tradition. The Spirit can breath on those who hear the Word. Those who read the Word must be given the gift of the Holy Spirit to be led to all truth to receive it. Truth as it pertains to an individual personal life is not the same. The Holy Spirit does that to any heart disposed to receive.
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jcrichton
Guest
Exactly!
So the Holy Spirit can only Inspire us to seek to be One Body, One Gospel, One Baptism, and One Faith in One Holy Spirit, with One Lord and One God.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Well, I own a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and have accessed it on line several times… but I am only well-versed in Scriptures; however, Scriptures point me to the Delegation Given by Christ to the Church and my Obligation, as His Follower, to submit to the Authority of the Church He Founded.
When I read Sacred Writings I cannot but agree with the Church–the second I brake with the Church, I brake with Christ’s Authority!
Maran atha!
Angel
When I read Sacred Writings I cannot but agree with the Church–the second I brake with the Church, I brake with Christ’s Authority!
Maran atha!
Angel
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guanophore
Guest
This is not the case for the Catholic Church, because we only have One Faith.
Although there may be persons in the Church that have a personal agenda they like to push, that does not change the Teaching that was handed down to us from the Apostles.
Have there been members of the Catholic Church that you think have an “agenda” they wish to “push”?
Since the NT had not yet been formed, then this would be a reference to the Septuagint.
I am curious to know what your definition of Sola Scriptura is. What you have posted is quite different from the modern definition.
This seems an odd thing to say. You are supporting your claim to sola scriptura by using a quote from Jesus that one does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Jesus used quotes from the Septuagint to fight the devil. If God did not “need the OT scriptures”, does this mean you believe that Jesus is not God?
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guanophore
Guest
While it is true that they carried the Word of God within them, and relied on the Spirit to tell them what to say, the main reason they did not carry a copy of the Scriptures is that they were bulky and expensive! They were copied by hand on parchment or sheepskin, and kept in scrolls, usually in a cool dry location. Travelling with such valuable documents that would have taken years to copy by hand was not reasonable.
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Benadam
Guest
The method was St. Paul’s sermon to the Greeks. The unknown God. Paul pointed that Pagan worship to Christ. The Resurrection was the ‘too hard teaching’. The cross I think was not the stumbling block for the Greeks. They had the Philosophers who understood the value of suffering but it redeeming human life to divine life was something they never heard before. That’s my opinion on that.
The Pagan myths are full of death to birth symbols that pointed to a cyclic concept of eternity. The sun is depicted by many gods one is also a primordial god who emerged up from chaos was formerly the Ouroboros the first to rise with no one beside him. This is the serpent that swallows it’s tail who took on human form once chaos became ordered and organized. In human form he is Atum and depicted as an old man. The sun rising and setting is the cycle of Atum’s ordering chaos. This is a creation myth that was most prevalent and most accurate in the Pagan societies that the Hebrews came out of.
The first prophecy in Genesis is an example of the method. The Author, Moses I like to believe, redefined the Ouroboros symbol as it was man’s concept of the nature of time, eternity and creation. The serpent’s head was a symbol of the beginning of an age. The tail is the end of an age. The end of an age is marked when it is swallowed up in the beginning of ages). The end is swallowed up in the beginning. As that is the pattern established by the Ouroboros ( serpent eating it’s tail.)that organized the universe and time out of Chaos and then took human form. The Ouroboros is a great achievement of human reasoning. Truth from above to Moses took the Pagan symbol of universal order, eternity and time and incorporated it into the order determined by the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Moses pointed the Pagan symbols to their true object.
The prophecy of the woman’s seed and the serpents seed is a redefinition of Pagan worship of the serpent swallowing it’s tail. The tail of the serpent is anthropamorphized into a human foot that the head can no longer eat but only bite preventing the cyclic loop of endlessly repeated history of the serpent swallowing it’s tail. The end of the age according to Divine Revelation to Moses is marked when the foot belongs to the true God and when the serpent attempts to swallow the foot, this time it is crushed by the true beginning of eternity and end of ages.
The most powerful and sublime symbol of creation, eternal life, and time, is pointed to it’s true object as revealed to Moses. What I wrote is how the myth is pointed to it’s true object. Missionaries presented themselves as servants with disinterested love to the pagan people. When this new kind of love was recognized by the pagans the missionaries could share the source of love and the truth the Pagans already held dear could be pointed to it’s true object. Jesus Christ Son of the Living God.
The Pagan myths are full of death to birth symbols that pointed to a cyclic concept of eternity. The sun is depicted by many gods one is also a primordial god who emerged up from chaos was formerly the Ouroboros the first to rise with no one beside him. This is the serpent that swallows it’s tail who took on human form once chaos became ordered and organized. In human form he is Atum and depicted as an old man. The sun rising and setting is the cycle of Atum’s ordering chaos. This is a creation myth that was most prevalent and most accurate in the Pagan societies that the Hebrews came out of.
The first prophecy in Genesis is an example of the method. The Author, Moses I like to believe, redefined the Ouroboros symbol as it was man’s concept of the nature of time, eternity and creation. The serpent’s head was a symbol of the beginning of an age. The tail is the end of an age. The end of an age is marked when it is swallowed up in the beginning of ages). The end is swallowed up in the beginning. As that is the pattern established by the Ouroboros ( serpent eating it’s tail.)that organized the universe and time out of Chaos and then took human form. The Ouroboros is a great achievement of human reasoning. Truth from above to Moses took the Pagan symbol of universal order, eternity and time and incorporated it into the order determined by the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Moses pointed the Pagan symbols to their true object.
The prophecy of the woman’s seed and the serpents seed is a redefinition of Pagan worship of the serpent swallowing it’s tail. The tail of the serpent is anthropamorphized into a human foot that the head can no longer eat but only bite preventing the cyclic loop of endlessly repeated history of the serpent swallowing it’s tail. The end of the age according to Divine Revelation to Moses is marked when the foot belongs to the true God and when the serpent attempts to swallow the foot, this time it is crushed by the true beginning of eternity and end of ages.
The most powerful and sublime symbol of creation, eternal life, and time, is pointed to it’s true object as revealed to Moses. What I wrote is how the myth is pointed to it’s true object. Missionaries presented themselves as servants with disinterested love to the pagan people. When this new kind of love was recognized by the pagans the missionaries could share the source of love and the truth the Pagans already held dear could be pointed to it’s true object. Jesus Christ Son of the Living God.
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Wannano
Guest
If feed me is as confused with this answer as I am I feel sorry for him. How in the world can you say “yes, that is exactly the intended meaning” and then immediately say “Actually it means : …something totally different ?”
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mcq72
Guest
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rcwitness
Guest
Are you saying Barnabus is Scripture?
Im kinda surprised you are using Barnabus to support SS…
Im kinda surprised you are using Barnabus to support SS…
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mcq72
Guest
No, just that he cites a tradition, almost in command, that scripture is normative rule. ( and by this time, including Christian scripture).
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