Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[Benadam]

Very good. Now what do you say to them when they follow you anyways, for the bread, or for to crown the Davidic king ? Should they not cease to follow under false hopes and pretenses, and in such refusal to believe? How do you then get rid of them, so that they might later rejoin under divine calling?

The Father would grant to reveal His Son according to some time or event? No, it happens at first exposure to Jesus. What you are thinking goes beyond the scriptures. No account of a follower leaving and coming back while Jesus walked in their presence. Judas was not granted that and he was with Jesus from the beginning.

 

[rcwitness]

Symbol of what…the symbol i mentioned was of the new covenant, His Death (some seem to think that if any other understanding beyond literal eating were explained, like symbolic, they would have stayed…they would have not)

I posted this a bit ago…

Here is a footnote from the NAB:

6:35–59 Up to Jn 6:50 “bread of life” is a figure for God’s revelation in Jesus; in Jn 6:51–58, the eucharistic theme comes to the fore. There may thus be a break between Jn 6:50–51.

 

[rcwitness]

Something that seems interesting about the Bread of Life discourse is that it bring to my mind the story of Abraham and Isaac.

Isaac asked “Here are the fire and the wood, but where is the sheep for the burnt offering?” “My son,” Abraham answered, “God will provide the sheep for the burnt offering.”

This is what was happening! Jesus was telling them in a code that He would give up His life for the life of the world! And the code also revealed His Eucharistic Sacrament! And Peter was like Abraham too, since he trusted that Jesus would provide the meaning of His words.

None of this should ignore the fact that the Bread of Life is the Word of God, and His revelation in the Son of Man! Yet, it wasnt just what God was speaking through His Son, but what He must do as the Lamb of God.

 

[rcwitness]

All are called to the Father. Yet it is only those who seek and respond whom God has granted to come to Jesus.

It takes a heart that is humble, open, and seeking God to recognize His voice.

Those who are not letting God work in their hearts, do not know God, and therefore do not recognize His voice.

God hid Himself in a lowly carpenter. And He also hides Himself in common bread and wine, which has no different appearances to the senses than bread and wine in a heathen home, for example.

The Sacrament is bound up in faith in order to strengthen faith. Not because of man, or works of man, but because of a body of Scripture, a body of Teachings and body of Christians that are recognized as from the Lord.

 

[rcwitness]

Do you see how the figure of Bread is God’s revelation in Jesus AND that Jesus offered His body and blood as a means to accept both His Word and His Sacrifice! The Word became flesh!

Its like consumation! And thats why we dont eat an offering apart from the Catholic Church, because it would be like sleeping around with others (a harlot).

 

[Wannano]

Do you see how the figure of Bread is God’s revelation in Jesus AND that Jesus offered His body and blood as a means to accept both His Word and His Sacrifice! The Word became flesh!

Its like consumation! And thats why we dont eat an offering apart from the Catholic Church, because it would be like sleeping around with others (a harlot).

I think you might want to think about that a little more. It might be perceivable both ways.

 

[Agathon]

The assertion that literally “only a few will be saved” is not well integrated with the whole, in fact the reading of Luke is easily seen as a rebuke of the attempt to quantify the salvation of souls.

Many esteemed men in Church history would disagree with you.

 

[rcwitness]

Im sure some do, and some dont. Like most beliefs.

 

[mcq72]

Do you see how the figure of Bread is God’s revelation in Jesus AND that Jesus offered His body and blood as a means to accept both His Word and His Sacrifice!

Of course I see it as the Catholic understanding. And of course participating in eucharist is a way to accept His Word and His sacrifice, by any definition of eucharist, though not the only means, baptism coming to mind.

 

[rcwitness]

rcwitness:

Do you see how the figure of Bread is God’s revelation in Jesus AND that Jesus offered His body and blood as a means to accept both His Word and His Sacrifice!

Of course I see it as the Catholic understanding. And of course participating in eucharist is a way to accept His Word and His sacrifice, by any definition of eucharist, though not the only means, baptism coming to mind.

The Eucharist means remaining in Him, and His life remaining in us. Its an ongoing participation and consumation of love and devotion. Baptism in an initiation, along with Confirmation.

 

[mcq72]

Its like consumation! And thats why we dont eat an offering apart from the Catholic Church, because it would be like sleeping around with others (a harlot).

Perhaps a type of, but to me baptism, adult, is primary form of consumation.

As to participating in “others” communion, generally more concerned with impact or message it sends to other brethren, and there level of maturity…sometimes love overides any error of understanding.

 

[rcwitness]

rcwitness:

Its like consumation! And thats why we dont eat an offering apart from the Catholic Church, because it would be like sleeping around with others (a harlot).

Perhaps a type of, but to me baptism, adult, is primary form of consumation.

As to participating in “others” communion, generally more concerned with impact or message it sends to other brethren, and there level of maturity…sometimes love overides any error of understanding.

When u eat Communion with another church, it means u approve of their doctrines, and u accept them (doctrines) within you.its a way of uniting yourself to that body, including what it accepts and what it rejects of Jesus.

They are saying, “Here, take Him at our hands. We know Him and offer Him to you. We know what He Teaches”

 

[Benadam]

The Incarnation is God entering time and human history. This is eternal life as a material reality entering time and history. In that reality Jesus fulfills the symbol ‘Rock of our salvation’ and made it a real material reality that entered time and history. How can it be that a material eternal reality enters time and human history to then not be a material eternal reality that entered time and human history? Especially it being a work of God. Why would God bother to make His material presence on earth if it wasn’t going to be eternal like Him?

 

[mcq72]

body of Christians that are recognized as from the Lord.

???

 

[mcq72]

How can it be that a material eternal reality enters time and human history

Anything material is not eternal…had a beginning.

The second person of trinity did not have a material body until the incarnation.

 

[rcwitness]

Lawfully appointed leaders. Good question, I should have said that different.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

OSAS, that Billy preached, is what’s being challenged by Fr Longenecker. Yes, one won’t find that in scripture. I’m sure, Billy misled a WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE on that teaching of his. Which led to my question, what Gospel was Billy preaching?

…and that’s the issue; can OSAS be taught as Christ’s Gospel?

The answer is, OSAS is contrary to scripture.
jcirichton:

Yet, as with those who preach that ‘we are all God’s children,’ the “feel good theology” takes precedence even over Christ’s own Word: ‘not all who call Me Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom.’ (St. Matthew 7:21-23)

Yet, as I’ve stated previously, God can use everything for the good of those He Loves.

Maran atha!

Angel

Consider

There are 13 heresies mentioned in this list The Great Heresies | Catholic Answers each one teaching their own errors in history.

Given the condemnations scripture gives against heresy, division, schism, etc ( all of that ) and those who do it and/or keep it going “after one knows the truth”, THEN

as you point out

“not all who call Me Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom.” (St. Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Would you refuse the gift of knowing ahead of time, whether you were going to heaven or not in your current condition?

But that is not God’s Gift!

It was a hypothetical presented by Fr Longenecker. And to his point, I certainly don’t know of any person who would refuse to know in advance, from God, if they personally were going to heaven at the end of their life.

Especially since God knows in advance, before the foundation of the world, who is and who isn’t in the book of life, ergo, those who will be in heaven.

jcrichton:

Scriptures does not guarantee anyone’s Salvation; rather, Scriptures warn that we are to remain abiding in Christ (St. John 15:1-10); it is He (Christ) in Whom our Salvation is hidden:

3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. (Colossians 3)
Here’s the view of Christ’s Disciples:
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. (Romans 8)

Salvation is only assured in Christ–anyone who has “received” eternal salvation is no longer waiting patiently for God; he/she has actually superseded God’s Gift and Salvific Plan; Christ is no longer the deposit of their Faith (Hope) but their “knowledge” (assurance) is the “salvation” that they grasp and believe in.

Maran atha!

Angel

I agree. But you miss the point Fr Longenecker was making.

 

[Benadam]

Anything material is not eternal…had a beginning.

The second person of trinity did not have a material body until the incarnation.

Does that change anything about what I wrote?
Or are you denying that Jesus is an eternal person?

 

[Benadam]

Anything material is not eternal…had a beginning.

This denies the Incarnation as an eternal reality. Which denies forgiveness of sins today.