Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[steve-b]

As far as Protestant communities (are these what you are referencing?) then yes, the HS does work through these communities with many gifts and graces, preaching and teaching among them.

when I said

Fasten your seat belt buckaroo.

Catholics are NOT to receive Protestant “communions” NONE of them.

I did stay on point

guanophore:

I think you are assuming that this is about Catholics. These canon laws cannot be applied to those who have been born into and raised in Protestant communions.

The challenge put by @rcwitness to me was

"You cant show a Catholic why *the Church is opposed to the Holy Spirit calling some men to Protestant Communions?"*

Can I as a Catholic then, receive Protestant communion? No

And I showed why, and where it comes from, from a Catholic perspective

Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved. "

You tell me, why would the HS guide someone in THAT direction of “could NOT be saved”?

guanophore:

You are making a huge assumption here. Most Protestants don’t qualify as “knowing” anything about the CC. The HS guides souls into grace, truth, and unity. All the gifts and graces of the HS found in Protestant ecclesial communities are calls to unity,

There ya have it. The HS doesn’t lead anyone into division, nor influences anyone to stay in division. He leads them to the Catholic Church

guanophore:

but many do not “hear” the call, or do not understand it for what it is.

As a Catholic that’s why I have the responsibility when the opportunity presents itself, to show Protestants the truth.

That’s what I would tell a real Catholic. And also for one who would ask me, why be Catholic.

guanophore:

Ok, but I think the OP was referring to persons in Protestant ecclesial communities. I do agree with you that the HS does not lead Catholics away from the fullness of Truth. Many of us have strayed away from it, discovered it in those Protestant ecclesial communities, and were able to return to the fullness of faith.

His challenge to me was "You cant show a Catholic why the Church is opposed to the Holy Spirit calling some men to Protestant Communions?"

So I answered that.

guanophore:

Most Catholics who have been drawn out of the One Faith were poorly catechized, or seeking there own desires, or emotionally motivated, or a combination of these.

agreed

 

[Wannano]

Let me also ask you this:

Would your pastor be comfortable quoting St Justin’s Eucharistic Teaching next time he celebrates the Lord’s Supper?

He is not close by me to ask but I can’t see anything wrong with it. We stress unity in the Church and a time of personal inquiry about whether we are at peace with God and fellow man so that we do not partake in a unworthy manner. We use bread and grape juice which is prepared specially for this use and ask a blessing on it before any is consumed. While we do not believe that the bread is Jesus to the point of putting some in a monstrance and sitting with it to be close to Christ we do receive and partake of it by hearing the words of Jesus, “this is my body.” It is consumed in a solemn thoughtful atmosphere in which we are contemplating on the sacrifice Jesus made for our personal salvation. While to us the emblems are symbols of Christ’s body and blood and have not turned into His flesh and blood before we eat it we eat the Supper as He commanded. It is not a frivolous activity or atmosphere and is spiritually enriching.

Knock it all you want, say it is not real but profane, tell us we are all going to hell as heretics but be prepared to give an answer someday if you have it wrong.

 

[rcwitness]

The challenge put by @rcwitness to me was: *"You cant show a Catholic why *the Church is opposed to the Holy Spirit calling some men to Protestant Communions?"**Can I as a Catholic then, receive Protestant communion? No. And I showed why, and where it comes from, from a Catholic perspective

The question isnt whether a Catholic can receive Communion at a Protestant service.

 

[rcwitness]

rcwitness:

Let me also ask you this:

Would your pastor be comfortable quoting St Justin’s Eucharistic Teaching next time he celebrates the Lord’s Supper?

He is not close by me to ask but I can’t see anything wrong with it. We stress unity in the Church and a time of personal inquiry about whether we are at peace with God and fellow man so that we do not partake in a unworthy manner. We use bread and grape juice which is prepared specially for this use and ask a blessing on it before any is consumed. While we do not believe that the bread is Jesus to the point of putting some in a monstrance and sitting with it to be close to Christ we do receive and partake of it by hearing the words of Jesus, “this is my body.” It is consumed in a solemn thoughtful atmosphere in which we are contemplating on the sacrifice Jesus made for our personal salvation. While to us the emblems are symbols of Christ’s body and blood and have not turned into His flesh and blood before we eat it we eat the Supper as He commanded. It is not a frivolous activity or atmosphere and is spiritually enriching.

Knock it all you want, say it is not real but profane, tell us we are all going to hell as heretics but be prepared to give an answer someday if you have it wrong.

I have already told you. I do not judge you. God is our judge, and I am not anxious to sit in that place!

Your personal reverence for your celebration of the Lord’s Supper is no doubt genuine. This has nothing to do with that.

What does a blessing on bread and wine do for you? What blessing on them do you ask of God?

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The challenge put by @rcwitness to me was: *"You cant show a Catholic why *the Church is opposed to the Holy Spirit calling some men to Protestant Communions?"**Can I as a Catholic then, receive Protestant communion? No. And I showed why, and where it comes from, from a Catholic perspective

The question isnt whether a Catholic can receive Communion at a Protestant service.

Re: the HS’s call it was answered here Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist - #690 by steve-b post 690

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

rcwitness:

Let me also ask you this:

Would your pastor be comfortable quoting St Justin’s Eucharistic Teaching next time he celebrates the Lord’s Supper?

He is not close by me to ask but I can’t see anything wrong with it. We stress unity in the Church and a time of personal inquiry about whether we are at peace with God and fellow man so that we do not partake in a unworthy manner. We use bread and grape juice which is prepared specially for this use and ask a blessing on it before any is consumed. While we do not believe that the bread is Jesus to the point of putting some in a monstrance and sitting with it to be close to Christ we do receive and partake of it by hearing the words of Jesus, “this is my body.” It is consumed in a solemn thoughtful atmosphere in which we are contemplating on the sacrifice Jesus made for our personal salvation. While to us the emblems are symbols of Christ’s body and blood and have not turned into His flesh and blood before we eat it we eat the Supper as He commanded. It is not a frivolous activity or atmosphere and is spiritually enriching.

Knock it all you want, say it is not real but profane, tell us we are all going to hell as heretics but be prepared to give an answer someday if you have it wrong.

I have already told you. I do not judge you. God is our judge, and I am not anxious to sit in that place!

Your personal reverence for your celebration of the Lord’s Supper is no doubt genuine. This has nothing to do with that.

What does a blessing on bread and wine do for you? What blessing on them do you ask of God?

Calling any Call of God that is independent of the Catholic Mass “deception” is certainly judgemental.

It gives thanks to God for His gifts and for His sacrifice and asks Him to hallow and sanctify the preceeding’s to the honor and glory of Himself.

 

[rcwitness]

Calling any Call of God that is independent of the Catholic Mass “deception” is certainly judgemental…It gives thanks to God for His gifts and for His sacrifice and asks Him to hallow and sanctify the preceeding’s to the honor and glory of Himself.

Participating in a Supper of the Lord apart from the Catholic Eucharist is NOT a call from God. Thats my whole point. Its not me making this up, its the Catholic Faith.

So you dont ask a blessing on the bread and wine? Ok then.

Jesus blessed the bread and wine at the Last Supper.

Matt. 26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Calling any Call of God that is independent of the Catholic Mass “deception” is certainly judgemental…It gives thanks to God for His gifts and for His sacrifice and asks Him to hallow and sanctify the preceeding’s to the honor and glory of Himself.

Participating in a Supper of the Lord apart from the Catholic Eucharist is NOT a call from God. Thats my whole point. Its not me making this up, its the Catholic Faith.

Calling any Call of God that is independent of the Catholic Mass “deception” is certainly judgemental…It gives thanks to God for His gifts and for His sacrifice and asks Him to hallow and sanctify the preceeding’s to the honor and glory of Himself.

Participating in a Supper of the Lord apart from the Catholic Eucharist is NOT a call from God. Thats my whole point. Its not me making this up, its the Catholic Faith.

So you dont ask a blessing on the bread and wine? Ok then.

Jesus blessed the bread and wine at the Last Supper.

Matt. 26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”

So you dont ask a blessing on the bread and wine? Ok then.

Jesus blessed the bread and wine at the Last Supper.

Matt. 26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”

You must be in quite a mood today. I am not used all this splitting hairs and gotchas from you rc.

If the Catholic Church wants to say that God does not honor or Call non-Catholics who celebrate His Last Supper it is of no consequence to me. I know better.

 

[rcwitness]

You must be in quite a mood today. I am not used all this splitting hairs and gotchas from you rc…If the Catholic Church wants to say that God does not honor or Call non-Catholics who celebrate His Last Supper it is of no consequence to me. I know better.

Your responses are not accurate to my points. Im not saying God doesnt call non-Catholics who celebrate His Supper. Quite the contrary. I say He calls all men to one celebration, but not separate communions.

You are my friend. More than a CAF friend. You know that.

But I am not a shallow Catholic. And I dont believe in vain, or try to pacify others who question my faith.

I believe Jesus’ Eucharist is a profound call to one faith, one mind, one Lord, one loaf, one Church, one judgment, one brotherhood!

I believe separate communions are a result of men’s sins. Our pride, abuses, hard hearts, etc.

We can all give God thanks and adoration at the same table. All are invited to one table

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

You must be in quite a mood today. I am not used all this splitting hairs and gotchas from you rc…If the Catholic Church wants to say that God does not honor or Call non-Catholics who celebrate His Last Supper it is of no consequence to me. I know better.

Your responses are not accurate to my points. Im not saying God doesnt call non-Catholics who celebrate His Supper. Quite the contrary. I say He calls all men to one celebration, but not separate communions.

You are my friend. More than a CAF friend. You know that.

But I am not a shallow Catholic. And I dont believe in vain, or try to pacify others who question my faith.

I believe Jesus’ Eucharist is a profound call to one faith, one mind, one Lord, one loaf, one Church, one judgment, one brotherhood!

I believe separate communions are a result of men’s sins. Our pride, abuses, hard hearts, etc.

We can all give God thanks and adoration at the same table. All are invited to one table

All are invited to the one table…as long as it is the Catholic table right?

 

[rcwitness]

When was your communion founded???

 

[Wannano]

When was your communion founded???

The night before Jesus was crucified.

 

[guanophore]

The HS doesn’t lead anyone into division, nor influences anyone to stay in division. He leads them to the Catholic Church

Of course we are in agreement on this point, and yes, I saw that you were responding to a question in the thread other than the OP. While participation in a Protestant community where the Holy Spirit is at work is in itself a call to Catholic unity, there are valid ministries within these communities to which people are called. For many, it is part of their journey to unity, as those on the Marcus Grodi show demonstrate. So while the HS does not lead into separation, I think it is fair to say the HS leads “through” separation.

 

[Wannano]

[quote="rcwitness, post:702, topic:474711,

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The HS doesn’t lead anyone into division, nor influences anyone to stay in division. He leads them to the Catholic Church

Of course we are in agreement on this point, and yes, I saw that you were responding to a question in the thread other than the OP. While participation in a Protestant community where the Holy Spirit is at work is in itself a call to Catholic unity, there are valid ministries within these communities to which people are called. For many, it is part of their journey to unity, as those on the Marcus Grodi show demonstrate. So while the HS does not lead into separation, I think it is fair to say the HS leads “through” separation.

may I make a slight change to that highlighted text

the HS leads “through” "from", separation to perfect unity.

 

[mcq72]

its the Catholic faith accepted that brings some into salvation (and God’s will done in their lives), not the Catholic faith rejected (and His will denied).

but as pointed out , apparently there can be salvation yet rejecting Catholic view of communion

Still find #274 a conundrum. On the one hand the reality is, as far as CC can discern, spiritual life outside the CC, and does well for some ecumenicism. On the other hand, there is the other # (don’t know it) that says if one knowingly rejects the CC or her tenets, the person is in great peril of judgement.

Again , if 274 were the end of it , no problem. I wish any related qualifications would be close at hand to #274, but they seem to be “scattered”

 

[rcwitness]

but as pointed out , apparently there can be salvation yet rejecting Catholic view of communion

If the sin is venial, yes. But someone seeking God will not remain away from His Eucharist

 

[mcq72]

Pope Stephen was rebuking rebaptism.

correct.

“He admitted that baptism is always valid , even if outside the true Church…He admitted that the Holy Spirit cannot be receive outside the Church, but argued, quaintly, that the rite of baptism forgives sins but does not communicate the Spirit…been suggested was also gentleman’s agreement to accept each others baptisms…to discourage.going form one sect to another in order to seek a rebaptism that would wash away their previous sins without the rigors of any penance…Ironic (that the correct decision not to rebaptize) …was based on the wholly unacceptable premise (subsequently abandoned) that baptism does not communicate the Holy Spirit. Bad theology is providentially useful.”

“Live of the Popes” Michael J. Walsh, editor Salamander books 1998

wonder where he got his info…have heard that quite a few folk back then did wait till deathbed to be baptized to for sure receieve a clean slate

 

[rcwitness]

wonder where he got his info…have heard that quite a few folk back then did wait till deathbed to be baptized to for sure receieve a clean slate.

That was a foolish practice, unapproved by the Church. They would not be able to receive Communion if they were not Baptized, so they would be rejecting grace for certain!

 

[mcq72]

If the sin is venial, yes. But someone seeking God will not remain away from His Eucharist

but apparently one can seek God enough for salvation and graciously receive it, and not have to look further than communion practice of their born in church.

Apparently one can have"life in them", that Jesus promised, by eating His flesh figuratively ( or another means yet not by transubstantiation).