Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[Wannano]

Wannano:

If a spiritual Communion fulfills obedience to Christ’s teaching regarding eating His flesh and His body and blood are one with His Spirit, just who is separating them?

They are separated in this model. A spiritual communion is made BECAUSE one is separated from the Real Presence.

I guess I am to dumb to see through it.

Here is the initial question: " Can one not " eat His flesh" in faith without it being His literal flesh?

Your answer was " yes" but it seems like now it’s “no”?

 

[guanophore]

I guess I am to dumb to see through it.

Here is the initial question: " Can one not " eat His flesh in faith without it being His literal flesh?"

It is not a matter of intelligence, which you appear to have in sufficient abundance. The presence of metaphorical and figurative communions does not rule out the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

I guess I am to dumb to see through it.

Here is the initial question: " Can one not " eat His flesh in faith without it being His literal flesh?"

It is not a matter of intelligence, which you appear to have in sufficient abundance. The presence of metaphorical and figurative communions does not rule out the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

Well I seem to be the only one not catching on ! I agree that the presence of metaphorical and figurative communions does not rule out the Real Presence in the Eucharist. But can we “eat His flesh” in faith without it being His literal flesh? If “yes”, then how?

 

[guanophore]

Well I seem to be the only one not catching on ! I agree that the presence of metaphorical and figurative communions does not rule out the Real Presence in the Eucharist. But can we “eat His flesh” in faith without it being His literal flesh?

I understand from my separated brethren that John 6 is interpreted metaphorically:

How do you labor for the food that endures to eternal life? Believe in me! (v. 27, 29)

“I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me [in faith] shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.” (v. 35)

“For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (v. 40)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (v. 47)

Catholics make a spiritual communion this way:
My Jesus,
I believe that You
are present in the Most Holy Sacrament.
I love You above all things,
and I desire to receive You into my soul.
Since I cannot at this moment
receive You sacramentally,
come at least spiritually into my heart. I embrace You as if You were already there and unite myself wholly to You. Never permit me to be separated from You.
Amen.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, RC!

I follow what you are saying… perhaps since I too take the way of tangents I do not see the problem as it is…

I concur with you that tangents should remain curt and not overpower the theme of the thread (if one is in need of discussing at greater span one should open a new thread for that/those themes that need/want to discuss); perhaps we should engage the tangents offering to return to the PO’s theme whenever they are too broad/expansive.

Thank you for the clarification.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I believe that publicly preaching the Gospel (a condensed message about Jesus coming into the world, so that the world might be saved from sin) is one thing, but that claiming that God calls some to a Eucharistic Communion separated from the Catholic Mass, is a deception. How God will judge those is not for me to know, let alone tell anyone.

I fully concur with you. It is dismantling Apostolic Succession in order to fit the revision made to the Body.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

…actually we can say that the American spirit is about red, white and blue… but that does not mean that in the US those are the only colors that are used/liked/loved.

God cannot Call people to reject the Body of Christ in order to build the Body of Christ. (That is one reality.)

God can use all things for the good of those He Loves. (That is another reality.)

So God can indeed use some elements not found in the Catholic Church to bring people to Christ–yet, this does not means that God is actively engaged in moving people out of the Body of Christ into a different form of understanding/Worship in order to Save them.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I think you are confusing Transubstantiation (the change into the Body (Flesh) and Blood of Christ) with Eucharist (Communion) the reception of the Body and Blood of Christ.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Well I seem to be the only one not catching on ! I agree that the presence of metaphorical and figurative communions does not rule out the Real Presence in the Eucharist. But can we “eat His flesh” in faith without it being His literal flesh?

I understand from my separated brethren that John 6 is interpreted metaphorically:

How do you labor for the food that endures to eternal life? Believe in me! (v. 27, 29)

“I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me [in faith] shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.” (v. 35)

“For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (v. 40)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (v. 47)

Catholics make a spiritual communion this way:
My Jesus,
I believe that You
are present in the Most Holy Sacrament.
I love You above all things,
and I desire to receive You into my soul.
Since I cannot at this moment
receive You sacramentally,
come at least spiritually into my heart. I embrace You as if You were already there and unite myself wholly to You. Never permit me to be separated from You.
Amen.

Thank you, I appreciate that more than you may realize. I can also see from the Catholic point of view why someone would say that prayer.

Allow me to write what I see could be my prayer at Communion. And please understand this is not meant to be polemic in any way.

My Jesus,
I believe that you are present in my life, my heart and soul.
I love you above all things,
Help me to serve you faithfully.
Forgive my sins and make me whole by your blood shed for even me.
Guide me through this life as I endeavor to walk in your footsteps.
Though I stray I thank you for never leaving me.

Amen.

 

[jcrichton]

.” It is consumed in a solemn thoughtful atmosphere in which we are contemplating on the sacrifice Jesus made for our personal salvation. While to us the emblems are symbols of Christ’s body and blood and have not turned into His flesh and blood before we eat it we eat the Supper as He commanded. It is not a frivolous activity or atmosphere and is spiritually enriching.

I think that the problem lies in what it is that you believe.

Non-Catholics, in general, hold to a symbolic celebration of a symbolism.

While that can be done with “honors” and all dignity… it remains a celebration of a symbol… which, as hard as you (non-Catholics) might not want to accept it, goes right against Scriptures (which you claim to uphold as the authority of the things you do and practice) and Apostolic Teaching.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

.” It is consumed in a solemn thoughtful atmosphere in which we are contemplating on the sacrifice Jesus made for our personal salvation. While to us the emblems are symbols of Christ’s body and blood and have not turned into His flesh and blood before we eat it we eat the Supper as He commanded. It is not a frivolous activity or atmosphere and is spiritually enriching.

I think that the problem lies in what it is that you believe.

Non-Catholics, in general, hold to a symbolic celebration of a symbolism.

While that can be done with “honors” and all dignity… it remains a celebration of a symbol… which, as hard as you (non-Catholics) might not want to accept it, goes right against Scriptures (which you claim to uphold as the authority of the things you do and practice) and Apostolic Teaching.

Maran atha!

Angel

If you have the idea that we hold to a symbolic celebration of a symbol I can understand why you think we go against the teaching of Scriptures.

 

[jcrichton]

Calling any Call of God that is independent of the Catholic Mass “deception” is certainly judgemental.

It gives thanks to God for His gifts and for His sacrifice and asks Him to hallow and sanctify the preceeding’s to the honor and glory of Himself.

…actually, what I understood was that to claim that God Calls to separate from the Catholic Church (Eucharist) is what is being termed “deception.”

We deceive ourselves all the time…

Luther issued forth his dissention and it is being celebrated as “reformation.”

Removing Church history from the Church is also a deception.

Revision (the claim that God Calls to a different Gospel/Unfolding/Understanding of the Faith) of the Faith is also a deception.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[rcwitness]

Thank you, I appreciate that more than you may realize. I can also see from the Catholic point of view why someone would say that prayer… Allow me to write what I see could be my prayer at Communion. And please understand this is not meant to be polemic in any way… My Jesus,
I believe that you are present in my life, my heart and soul. I love you above all things,
Help me to serve you faithfully. Forgive my sins and make me whole by your blood shed for even me. Guide me through this life as I endeavor to walk in your footsteps. Though I stray I thank you for never leaving me. Amen.

Wannano, your prayer is great! My OP is not dealing with prayer, however.

Does your prayer make you a Bishop, or substitute receiving Laying on Hands appointing you a “presbyter”?

Communion is not only about our disposition, or genuine prayer. Its about coming to where Jesus’ body and blood are offered. He gave His body and blood to the Church, not to any priest, pastor, bishop, preacher, etc. but to the Church. Whoever enters this Church, through Baptism, and believes what She Teaches, is called to participate in the Lord’s Supper.

 

[jcrichton]

No. There should be but one table. That’s what is missing from this exchange.

People often look for answers… and they site those who the Disciples sought to shun; Jesus told them that while they were not part of their body (group) they were using His Name so they would be welcomed.

However, Jesus also states that whoever does not gather with Him scatters…

At Pentecost there were thousands of devote Jews and non-Jews but the Holy Spirit only descended upon the Apostles and those who were gathered with them, two hundred; following Pentecost we are told that the Holy Spirit Called (gathered) to them over 3000, those who were to be Saved… the Church, my friend, was instituted at Pentecost–the gathering began… not the scattering!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

…stretch, a bit, no?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Thank you, I appreciate that more than you may realize. I can also see from the Catholic point of view why someone would say that prayer… Allow me to write what I see could be my prayer at Communion. And please understand this is not meant to be polemic in any way… My Jesus,
I believe that you are present in my life, my heart and soul. I love you above all things,
Help me to serve you faithfully. Forgive my sins and make me whole by your blood shed for even me. Guide me through this life as I endeavor to walk in your footsteps. Though I stray I thank you for never leaving me. Amen.

Wannano, your prayer is great! My OP is not dealing with prayer, however.

Does your prayer make you a Bishop, or substitute receiving Laying on Hands appointing you a “presbyter”?

Communion is not only about our disposition, or genuine prayer. Its about coming to where Jesus’ body and blood are offered. He gave His body and blood to the Church, not to any priest, pastor, bishop, preacher, etc. but to the Church. Whoever enters this Church, through Baptism, and believes what She Teaches, is called to participate in the Lord’s Supper.

And that is why we all do.

 

[jcrichton]

So while the HS does not lead into separation, I think it is fair to say the HS leads “through” separation.

Excellently put!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Wannano]

No. There should be but one table. That’s what is missing from this exchange.

People often look for answers… and they site those who the Disciples sought to shun; Jesus told them that while they were not part of their body (group) they were using His Name so they would be welcomed.

However, Jesus also states that whoever does not gather with Him scatters…

At Pentecost there were thousands of devote Jews and non-Jews but the Holy Spirit only descended upon the Apostles and those who were gathered with them, two hundred; following Pentecost we are told that the Holy Spirit Called (gathered) to them over 3000, those who were to be Saved… the Church, my friend, was instituted at Pentecost–the gathering began… not the scattering!

Maran atha!

Angel

Agree!*****************

 

[Wannano]

…stretch, a bit, no?

Maran atha!

Angel

Have no idea what you mean here.

 

[jcrichton]

wonder where he got his info…have heard that quite a few folk back then did wait till deathbed to be baptized to for sure receieve a clean slate

But this “clean slate” was not received because men thought they did; rather, if it happened at all it was because the Holy Spirit, at searching them, found them seeking the Truth (Jesus) with all of what His Fellowship entails.

Maran atha!

Angel