Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[rcwitness]

Wannano:

Benadam:

I think Jesus taught it when He said 'except in cases of porneia" Forgot to say it is the basis for annulments.

I somehow had the idea that annulments were the determination that a marriage was not valid when it was performed and that therefore it never existed. Never realized it was granted because one partner was unfaithful during the marriage.

It is not granted due to unfaithfulness toward a spouse. It is granted if the Sacrament was not conferred. If it was conferred (and consumated), it can never be granted by anyone for any reason.

It seems like the most understandable statement for me would be: Catholics may civilly divorce in the case of porniea but in order to be free to remarry an annulment must be obtained.

Who is commiting porneia? Is it a validly married couple, and there is infidelity with someone other than their spouse? Then it is moichao (adultery). The porneia being addressed is between the actual married couple.

If the impediment to validly marry can be resolved, then they can do so. If it cannot, then they should divorce or live as brother and sister.

 

[Sean77]

Your explanation of Protestant beliefs about Communion are untrue.

 

[mcq72]

is God breathed but you have to be able to inhale the Holy Spirit because Scripture doesn’t exhale.

Agree, divinely written,received,understood and preserved.

 

[Wannano]

rcwitness:

Wannano:

Benadam:

I think Jesus taught it when He said 'except in cases of porneia" Forgot to say it is the basis for annulments.

I somehow had the idea that annulments were the determination that a marriage was not valid when it was performed and that therefore it never existed. Never realized it was granted because one partner was unfaithful during the marriage.

It is not granted due to unfaithfulness toward a spouse. It is granted if the Sacrament was not conferred. If it was conferred (and consumated), it can never be granted by anyone for any reason.

It seems like the most understandable statement for me would be: Catholics may civilly divorce in the case of porniea but in order to be free to remarry an annulment must be obtained.

Who is commiting porneia? Is it a validly married couple, and there is infidelity with someone other than their spouse? Then it is moichao (adultery). The porneia being addressed is between the actual married couple.

If the impediment to validly marry can be resolved, then they can do so. If it cannot, then they should divorce or live as brother and sister.

I am not connecting the dots.

 

[mcq72]

For Protestants, it is merely a remembrance of His sacrifice on the Cross for the forgiveness of the sins of the whole world.

Wow , so John 3:16 is just another mere Scipture verse…to remember…

The remebrance is personal, or so it should be, if one is to eat “spiritually”.

Can remembering His goodness towards us , even His propitiating death, while we were yet sinners, that drew us to new life, to spiritual birth, ever be mere in remembrance?

Can remembering the reality of Calvary, as depicted by Mel Gibsons movie , ever be mere, for us personally ?

 

[mcq72]

For Catholics, the reception of the Eucharist is so much more

This is so subjective…and by technical understanding of the “eating”…as you alluded, that God looks at the heart, more than enough to overide any incorrectness of the “approach” to remembrance…and in the end, the spiritual efficacy of the rite attests to this.

But otherwise, you were quite charitable in your post

 

[rcwitness]

The exception clause is not referring to porneia committed apart from the supposed married couple. The porneia is between themselves. It is not a marriage “in the Lord”, or a “Christian marriage”, or a “Sacrament”. So divorce is actually right to do, or if possible get married validly in the Lord.

 

[lilypadrees]

Unfortunately for you, Sean77, I’m not wrong in this. Not only was I raised by a Protestant mother and know well Protestant views and teachings, I was also told by various Protestant pastors and members of various denominations.

If you believe differently than your Protestant brethren, why aren’t you Catholic?

 

[mcq72]

Perhaps he meant you only represented only one view of protestantism on communion, that of symbolism only, and left out mainline churches which believe closer to Catholicism, or certainly much more than symbolusm only

 

[Wannano]

The exception clause is not referring to porneia committed apart from the supposed married couple. The porneia is between themselves. It is not a marriage “in the Lord”, or a “Christian marriage”, or a “Sacrament”. So divorce is actually right to do, or if possible get married validly in the Lord.

If porneia is a sexual act outside of the bonds of marriage how is porneia between themselves?

 

[rcwitness]

rcwitness:

The exception clause is not referring to porneia committed apart from the supposed married couple. The porneia is between themselves. It is not a marriage “in the Lord”, or a “Christian marriage”, or a “Sacrament”. So divorce is actually right to do, or if possible get married validly in the Lord.

If porneia is a sexual act outside of the bonds of marriage how is porneia between themselves?

Because they aren’t truly married!! Not in the Christian faith.
They aren’t bound in God.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

rcwitness:

The exception clause is not referring to porneia committed apart from the supposed married couple. The porneia is between themselves. It is not a marriage “in the Lord”, or a “Christian marriage”, or a “Sacrament”. So divorce is actually right to do, or if possible get married validly in the Lord.

If porneia is a sexual act outside of the bonds of marriage how is porneia between themselves?

Because they aren’t truly married!! Not in the Christian faith.
They aren’t bound in God.

It is a new thought to me that God does not recognize the marriage and commitment of two people on earth , who do not profess Christianity, as a legitimate marriage in His eyes. That would mean Joseph and Mary were not really married.

 

[rcwitness]

St Paul acknowledges this:
1 Cor. 7
“For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is they are holy. But if the unbelieving partner desires to separate, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound”

 

[Wannano]

St Paul acknowledges this:
1 Cor. 7
“For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is they are holy. But if the unbelieving partner desires to separate, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound”

You are referring to verse 14…In verse 12 Paul clearly prefaces that what he is saying is from him not the Lord.

 

[rcwitness]

So what does that mean? Could they truly be bound, and Paul is wrong?

 

[Wannano]

So what does that mean? Could they truly be bound, and Paul is wrong?

What does he mean? In verses earlier he also said it is better to be single like him but also says that is him speaking, not a commandment from the Lord.

You are not answering my question of marriage only being valid in God’s eyes if done within the Christian faith.

 

[rcwitness]

No, not exactly. I’m saying it’s only a valid Christian marriage if done in the Christian faith.

 

[Wannano]

No, not exactly. I’m saying it’s only a valid Christian marriage if done in the Christian faith.

Can you explain what the difference is between a Christian marriage and a non-Christian marriage in the eyes of God?

It seems as though marriage was here a long time before Christianity.

 

[rcwitness]

Christian marriage was established by Jesus, and conferred on one another through the priesthood of each spouse. Non-Christian marriage lacks the involvement of God

 

[Wannano]

Christian marriage was established by Jesus, and conferred on one another through the priesthood of each spouse. Non-Christian marriage lacks the involvement of God

How was God involved in the marriage of two people before the start of Christianity, which was what exactly, Pentecost?