Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[mcq72]

Jesus instructed that the faithful should obey the truth taught by the authorities, even if they were hypocrites. He transferred the Seat of Moses (teaching Authority) to His Apostles, and the same principle applies.

Yes, that is half the story…

 

[jcrichton]

So St Paul would have to still be alive today for you to accept Apostolic Teaching in the form of Oral Teaching?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[mcq72]

But each person has a different perception of what the Spirit is saying. This is why we have so many divisions

well not every person is different or alone with his view. In fact many hear the same thing, and birds of a feather flock together…not so many divisions that there aren’t big churches (Catholics,Orthodox,Lutherans,Baptists,Pentecostal, etc)

 

[mcq72]

So St Paul would have to still be alive today for you to accept Apostolic Teaching in the form of Oral Teaching?

Maran atha!

No, just that I couldnt be sure if it was his teaching save by knowing what he was inspired to write.

I mean i doubt you would believe either if it were contrary.

 

[Wannano]

Wow, thank you for your concern (“feeling sorry”); however, are you following this exchange?

You’ve offered that if Baptism is so fundamental to the Faith the NT would be specific about the practice of infant Baptism.

Your assertion is that: a) Baptism is not fundamental and/or b) since infant Baptism remained, to your mind (non-Catholics), ambiguous then it was not practiced by the Church.

I attempted to engage you using other subjects which were very lightly mentioned by Christ or not engaged at all. I counter with these to illuminate your mind so that you can observe that Jesus and the Church did not need to engage every single thing in the Written Tradition since it was being practiced and upheld in the Oral Tradition.

I apologize if you feel belittled; that is never my intention. I am forceful in my presentations only to make people (both those that I am replying to and those who read through the threads) stop and think.

…as for superiority… I’m well versed on nothing, have no scholastic degree past hs, and I’m not even a weekend theologian/philosopher–my reach is far below superiority.

I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.

Maran atha!

Angel

If you take the time to really read my post that you are referring to you will see that I am not making inferences or assertions at all. I even stated that I understand the reasoning for both infant and adult baptism. You are the one jumping to conclusions about my motives for stating anything. It is annoying to have you answer like this so often. You say you are forceful to make people think, well, I am thinking you could try to make people think by using more positive methods.I would encourage you to not see everything a Protestant says as a “dig” against the CC.

 

[MichaelP3]

Do you believe God calls believers to be preachers and teachers in churches separated from Holy Communion with the Bishop of Rome?

At the time of writing the post count was 2612.

Maybe He does or maybe He doesn’t?

 

[jcrichton]

Did he enumerate them?

We find the magisterium of the Church right in Scriptures but because St. Paul did not present an exhaustive list those who have separated themselves from the Church refuse to accept that it was God Inspired:

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. (1 Corinthians 12)

…and those who reject the Authority of the Church would rather believe in some dissolution of the Body (existing in some sort of vacuum till the Luther awakening) as they hold anything pre-Luther suspect (no continuance of Church structured growth) and only the Luther and Luther-like as actual inspiration by the Holy Spirit.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[guanophore]

No, just that I couldnt be sure if it was his teaching save by knowing what he was inspired to write.

How interesting. So if you lived during the time of Jesus, you would have to wait at least 20 years for the early Gospel accounts, since Jesus did not write?

I mean i doubt you would believe either if it were contrary.

If it were contrary to what we had already received, of course! This is why we have to reject the innovations of the Reformation.

 

[jcrichton]

Yes, but we are talking about their roles after Scriptures have “caught up” to oral.Unless of course one says revelation is still ongoing, and more to be written (and while technically not calling it “scripture”, still same as far as from God, and that infallibly, to be obeyed/believed).

There in lies your problem.

Scriptures did not catch up to Oral Teaching.

Scriptures are part of the Teaching–that which was set in Writing; yet, it does not annul (make void) the Oral.

So when a person is intent on “Scriptures” they simply reject all of the development that takes place outside of what was Written even and in spite of the Written Word of God declaring that not all has been put in Writing.

Nowhere in Scriptures do we find a Revelation that God placed the Apostles first… yet, St. Paul makes that statement during a Teaching moment: the Church has a Magisterium!

As with Doctrinal Practice, things were Unfolded by the Holy Spirit at the appointed (God’s Schedule) times.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

so it is down to unction from Holy Ghost, both corporately and individually of course

Exactly!

Except that once Church is removed from the formula than we have wanton interpretation applied to rule Scriptures instead of Scriptures ruling man.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Am I correct in understanding that for the Catholic, once he realizes that his parents made him become a Christian by baptizing him when he was a baby, he must confirm that he indeed wants that and after first Communion all he has to do for salvation is believe whatever the Church dictates and as long as he goes to confession at least once a year and does not commit a mortal sin, he will not pass thru the gates of hell?

Do people make their children become literate/educated?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Chap 20 continues with the dark way. the church translates it as is just assuming the reader is smart enough to figure out the text. However it doesn’t say “the bible” it says whatever is written, which would also have to include the epistle of Polycarp, 1 Clement, the Didache, which Barnabas quotes, Ignatius. Projecting onto it a preconceived notion is dishonest, assuming you have actually read any of the above material. It’s pretty obvious. Of course you can always disagree with the protestant theologians and translators.

This is exactly the problem with those who see schism as an inspiration of the Holy Spirit–they seek the truth but only venture to Scriptures and Church history in as far as they believe these support their cause.

When Jesus Calls for Unity and Love they ignore it in favor of the flavor of the day (Luther’s, Calvin’s… or the “new age” Christian who swears that he/she follows the early Church of Scriptures).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Am I correct in understanding that for the Catholic, once he realizes that his parents made him become a Christian by baptizing him when he was a baby, he must confirm that he indeed wants that and after first Communion all he has to do for salvation is believe whatever the Church dictates and as long as he goes to confession at least once a year and does not commit a mortal sin, he will not pass thru the gates of hell?

Do people make their children become literate/educated?

Maran atha!

Angel

I have no clue how that answers my question. Frankly, I do not understand.

 

[jcrichton]

making it necesary for some to prequalify their authority with infallibility, or abuse of bible only or special revelation

You keep making such assertions as though you are in the right.

Simply because you reject what God has Reveal does not make wrong.

The Truth is not found wherever someone determines that it is. The Truth is found, Revealed by the Word of God, in the Church.

You can claim anything and reject everything; yet, you may reject in ignorance and claim in ignorance that which is in your mind and not in what is Revealed.

Did Christ Found One Church or a myriad of splintering bodies?

Did the Apostles Teach One Faith and One Gospel or were there multitudes of faiths and gospels?

When did Jesus state that He would abandon the Church and that He would leave her orphaned?

How shortsighted would God have been to Found His Body (the Church) with the built-in limitation to the lifespan of His Apostles?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

They read this and believe that they have the power to discern the Truth themselves, and do not need anything but Scripture.

Yet if we are to accept such tenets would the New Covenant’s Writings not be superfluous, as well as Jesus’ Ministry?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

In my opinion the idea of oral teaching being infallible and that thru laying on of hands is quite a twist of truth, at least in perspective. For sure we know of speaking/teaching being filled with the Holy Ghost, or of an annointing, gifting from the Holy Ghost

This is because you believe that “anything Catholic must be suspect.”

Consider all of the claims that have been made throughout the last 500 years or so. People claim all sort of “inspiration” even when they are proven completely opposite of what has been taught as Church doctrine during the 1500 previous to that “emancipation” and even when it is in opposition to what other “inspirations” that are claimed by those who follow/lead other ministries/paths.

So you see yourself as a hero when you stand against the Church and when you stand for the myriad of splintering of the Body–you are exercising your right to be “inspired” and “guided” by that special “anointing” that only the “spirituals” receive (outside of the Body, of course).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

No, just that I couldnt be sure if it was his teaching save by knowing what he was inspired to write.

I mean i doubt you would believe either if it were contrary.

So you do not Believe Jesus when He states that He will remain with His Church till the end of times or when He states that the Holy Spirit will abide with and in the Church?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

How can I be positive when the views are totally opposite?

The best I can do is apologize if a person feels attacked by my words or ignore/abstain the post/reply and move on.

However, ignorance would only fuel the belief that none have been able to give an “answer” to what is being posted as query/claim/challenge.

…as for ‘Protestant dig,’ only that which is presented/understood as such is seen/understood as such.

Yet, perhaps that is why Protestants are found in Catholic sites–there’s a great divide that is based in as much as reality as conception. Till it is addressed (place in an exchange) the reasons for the divide will continue in obscurity and will aide the constant splintering of the Body.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

You make the statement that

Am I correct in understanding that for the Catholic, once he realizes that his parents made him become a Christian by baptizing him when he was a baby,

Catholics who are born into a Catholic family are taught the Faith by those around him/her; as they mature, their understanding of the Faith matures with them (as any other subject that they are taught); the better the spiritual education and engagement the greater the understanding and living of their Catholic Faith.

…just like any child who is exposed to the alphabet and higher education–that child is brought up in the culture of the family, a natural development.

…as for your understanding… what you’ve described is a minimalist approach to Catholicism. It is a practice of necessity. There are places in the world where the Church is persecuted to the point of active oppression against her children and there are places in the world where there are so few Priests that they cannot tend to the flock on a daily basis… for these reasons the minimalist demands are there. Yet, this is not the rule but the exception.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[rcwitness]

I’d say yes. As someone who used to be athiest, and who after one night at 1am coming across and listening to a broadcast from Andy Stanley which led to me realize God was true and then first thing the next morning asking Christ into my heart on my bedroom floor and experiencing what I know with out a doubt was the receiving of the Holy Spirit. So I got saved not being in a catholic church and currently still not a catholic and after getting saved everyone I got connected with was non denominational, no one who was catholic came into the picture what so ever.

I appreciate your joy in what you know about the Lord and His Spirit! I too have learned about the Lord and His Scripture in a Christian community which was not in Communion of His Supper with the See of Rome.

What I would talk about with you, is what does “saved” mean, and by receiving the Holy Spirit, does this guarantee one’s salvation despite continuing to not do what is right?

The Catholic Church recognizes what you are saying, though would not affirm your conclusion that God calls believers to a divided Communion. God will lead His chosen people to His one bread, which is cherished in the Church.

You cherish His Spirit? What does the Spirit say? Does He say contradicting things? If I accept Him for the first time, happy that He is Lord and say yes to annointing and worship, am I able to rise over positions of Bishop? Or is there a deposit of faith, like a treasure with no end? It’s not filled again and again, but multiplies from within?

My childhood (protestant) church believed and professed a lot of Catholic faith! Namely the Nicene Creed!