Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[Wannano]

I’d say yes. As someone who used to be athiest, and who after one night at 1am coming across and listening to a broadcast from Andy Stanley which led to me realize God was true and then first thing the next morning asking Christ into my heart on my bedroom floor and experiencing what I know with out a doubt was the receiving of the Holy Spirit. So I got saved not being in a catholic church and currently still not a catholic and after getting saved everyone I got connected with was non denominational, no one who was catholic came into the picture what so ever.

Thank you for sharing your story. I missed your post until I saw it this morning. It is exciting to hear testimonials like yours and you have possibly given the best answer yet to this thread, you are living proof that God calls all men to Himself. Whosoever will, may come!

 

[feed_me]

Is depression a mental illness?

 

[mcq72]

How interesting. So if you lived during the time of Jesus, you would have to wait at least 20 years for the early Gospel accounts, since Jesus did not write?

Good point…have to reread posts tosee if applies

But hey, that is what many Catholic apoligists say against sola scriptura, that we didnt have bible for centuries, till 380ad or therabouts…and i reply like you…that what, the Galatians etc werent sure of the letters from Paul were scripture, God breathed…they said,“wait, we must council on this …give us some time Paul”.

 

[guanophore]

the letters from Paul were scripture, God breathed

I was listening to my audio bible this morning and heard this passage from Acts:

Now a Jew named Apol′los, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, well versed in the scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.

Acts 18:26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and expounded to him the way of God more accurately.

Priscilla and Aquila “took him and expounded to him the way of God more accurately”. This is one of the earliest examples of catechesis, or apostolic instruction through the paradosis. Priscilla and Aquila passed on the Sacred Traditions that were committed to them by the Apostles.

 

[mcq72]

Well it shows the dynamics of paradosis, yes.

At first there is of course the oral tradition, followed by the written. Apollos was very well versed in scriptures,taught eloquently. But God had done something new, being orally taught. Later the teaching was put in writing , for future teachers, to teach from. So even today folks teach eloquently, being well versed in scripture, and its understanding (tradition)

Paradosis can be both oral and written. But once written, it is the thing to be well versed in. Tradition then is usually then how we expound on scriptures…Scripture is the norm, the backbone, even the fodder from which to formulate understanding , which we then share.

I suppose SS is not so much about scripture ruling, but about proper understanding of it to be the goal, the desired rule.

 

[mcq72]

How interesting. So if you lived during the time of Jesus, you would have to wait at least 20 years for the early Gospel accounts, since Jesus did not write?

Just reread.not what i inferred. So if someone were claiming to be St.Paul himself, or claiming to speak for him today, the best way to discern genuiness, the real McCoy, is to compare the message to what he wrote inspirationally. Was not inferring about being there in his time, or listening to him back then.

 

[mcq72]

you do not Believe Jesus when He states that He will remain with His Church till the end of times or when He states that the Holy Spirit will abide with and in the Church?

No, I do believe He remains in the church and that the Holy Spirit abides with her, in as much as we keep His precepts, as many as are written (per Barnabus)

 

[mcq72]

This is because you believe that “anything Catholic must be suspect.”

Anything???

Is that like me saying to a Catholic that they are suspect about anything, which is everything, that is Protestant ???

I have been quite fair and transparent if and when my prejudices are in play, as some Catholics here have also.

I have also shared what is held universally, to be applauded, even thankful for , what has been held as Catholic and since the beginning…just as some here, from time to time, have held up what they applaud in seperated brethren/churches (at least the opposite of “suspect” I would say).

 

[mcq72]

Consider all of the claims that have been made throughout the last 500 years or so

I would rather consider all the claims made in the last 2000 years, and cast away any wood, hay or stubble, for surely what you or I don’t, the Lord will…He did that for the 2000 years that preceeded His first coming…There is much gold to be had, the both of us, all of us.

Nothing heroic to consider such things, just Christlike.

 

[mcq72]

you are exercising your right to be “inspired” and “guided” by that special “anointing”

Yes, thank you, for all have this unction (those in the Body)…special because from God, but not because it is proprietary…Is the CC’s anointing proprietary, relative to others in the body?)ï

 

[guanophore]

Later the teaching was put in writing , for future teachers, to teach from.

This is a Reformation assumption that is not found in Scripture.

The Truth is that not all of what the Apostles taught is found in Scripture, and there is no way to know if what Priscilla and Aquila had to say is contained in the NT. Now those who embrace Sola Scriptura will say that it does not matter, because all the “essentials” are there. But, of course, there is no list of “essentials” either!

Paradosis can be both oral and written. But once written, it is the thing to be well versed in.

Is there some scripture that indicates one should not be well versed in both?

Tradition then is usually then how we expound on scriptures

I would stipulate that this is the bulk of it, yes.

Scripture is the norm, the backbone, even the fodder from which to formulate understanding

Scripture does not say this either, to the exclusion of Sacred Tradition as an equal norm.

I suppose SS is not so much about scripture ruling

It cannot be, since “rule” in the sense of governance requires intellect and conscience. The exercise of authority is something that can only be accomplished by persons, not writings, however Holy.

So if someone were claiming to be St.Paul himself, or claiming to speak for him today, the best way to discern genuiness, the real McCoy, is to compare the message to what he wrote inspirationally. Was not inferring about being there in his time, or listening to him back then.

Since the earliest writings we have from Paul are around 50 AD, it seems like a long time to wait for the written “vetting”. I agree with your principle, that there must be consistency between the two, but how can that occur before it was written?

Your idea that oral transmission is corrupted almost immediately seems to fly in the face of the time it took to pen the scripture. It also disregards that God prepared a people for millenia through oral transmission. How could the book of Genesis contain all that occurred from Adam to Moses, if God could not preserve the Sacred Tradition?

 

[rcwitness]

Ken94:

I’d say yes. As someone who used to be athiest, and who after one night at 1am coming across and listening to a broadcast from Andy Stanley which led to me realize God was true and then first thing the next morning asking Christ into my heart on my bedroom floor and experiencing what I know with out a doubt was the receiving of the Holy Spirit. So I got saved not being in a catholic church and currently still not a catholic and after getting saved everyone I got connected with was non denominational, no one who was catholic came into the picture what so ever.

Thank you for sharing your story. I missed your post until I saw it this morning. It is exciting to hear testimonials like yours and you have possibly given the best answer yet to this thread, you are living proof that God calls all men to Himself. Whosoever will, may come!

Ken94 offered a good post with some conviction, which is good.

The bolded, though, isn’t touching on my question, since it is vague about Communion. What are a man’s duties to worship and fellowship in relationship to the Church as one grows knowledge and understanding?

Why is it Jesus’ body, which we gather for?

Men want their own nation within Christianity.

It is Jesus who we gather into in Communion. We receive Him at the table by Word and by bread and wine.

 

[mcq72]

The Truth is that not all of what the Apostles taught is found in Scripture, and there is no way to know if what Priscilla and Aquila had to say is contained in the NT. Now those who embrace Sola Scriptura will say that it does not matter, because all the “essentials” are there. But, of course, there is no list of “essentials” either!

Why look in the dark for something, or where even dimly lit, for a path, when He has brightly lit more than enough for the “day’s” path?

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Ken94:

I’d say yes. As someone who used to be athiest, and who after one night at 1am coming across and listening to a broadcast from Andy Stanley which led to me realize God was true and then first thing the next morning asking Christ into my heart on my bedroom floor and experiencing what I know with out a doubt was the receiving of the Holy Spirit. So I got saved not being in a catholic church and currently still not a catholic and after getting saved everyone I got connected with was non denominational, no one who was catholic came into the picture what so ever.

Thank you for sharing your story. I missed your post until I saw it this morning. It is exciting to hear testimonials like yours and you have possibly given the best answer yet to this thread, you are living proof that God calls all men to Himself. Whosoever will, may come!

Ken94 offered a good post with some conviction, which is good.

The bolded, though, isn’t touching on my question, since it is vague about Communion. What are a man’s duties to worship and fellowship in relationship to the Church as one grows knowledge and understanding?

Why is it Jesus’ body, which we gather for?

Men want their own nation within Christianity.

It is Jesus who we gather into in Communion. We receive Him at the table by Word and by bread and wine.

I feel you are beating this to death without avail. Post 61 by lilypadres describes well the attitude we all should have toward each other. I respect your convictions, I just don’t share them. For you the Catholic Eucharist is the summit of your faith walk. I rather, believe my relationship with Christ is far more important than any ritual that has developed. True circumcision of the heart produces a cup that is washed on the inside not just the outside continously made shiny. Peace, RC.

 

[guanophore]

Why look in the dark for something, or where even dimly lit, for a path, when He has brightly lit more than enough for the “day’s” path?

Having part of the Revelation from God is by no means dark! In fact, many Protestants do more with dim lighting than Catholics do with the fullness of faith.

I am not looking for “dark” but for unity. These doctrines are part of what separates us from one another, and Jesus wants perfect unity among us. If we can’t even agree on what is “essential” how can we enter the unity He desires for His One Body?

 

[guanophore]

I rather, believe my relationship with Christ is far more important than any ritual that has developed.

I am surprised that you would describe communion this way. This is not some “ritual that has developed” but was given to us by Christ Himself!

I do agree that this is all about a relationship to Christ, but the reason we say it is the Source and Summit is not because of some “ritual that developed” but because this is what He taught us.

John 6:53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

Our relationship with Him centers around having His life within us!

 

[Ken94]

Well even though because of what I personally experienced, allowing me to know someone can be saved outside the catholic church. I will admit that Ive back slided and strayed this past year, and as of right now I’m on the fence about still continuing to be on the Protestant side. Which is why I’m on here, and why I’ve been reading up on catholic apologetics to get the other side of the spectrum.

Because ill admit, even though Protestants vash Catholics for acting too “religious” over having a relationship like I myself did. On the Protestant side I feel like the relationship has become a “make it how you want it” type relationship with God and so it’s like choas. People are interpretating verses in the bible their own way and falling into misleading practices and teachings. Or they fall into the euphoria of singing to the Hillsong worship songs and treat church more like a concert and just show up for their weekly fill. You also have prosperity gospel teachers raking in millions off people by telling them to give and have faith and in return they’ll be financially rewarded and be in good health.

There’s also gay marriage being accepted, practicing homosexual pastors, church’s that Ive seen say that they don’t take the bible as literal, they just believe what it says is important. Its crazy, and it’s why I’m leaning more to the catholic church or even the orthodox church where there’s unity and accountability from what I’ve seen so far.

 

[mcq72]

Having part of the Revelation from God is by no means dark! In fact, many Protestants do more with dim lighting than Catholics do with the fullness of faith.

Thank you…“for now we see thru a glass darkly”…and yet we are children of the Light!

 

[guanophore]

Thank you…“for now we see thru a glass darkly”…and yet we are children of the Light!

I apologize for saying that about “dim”. I was just trading posts with a fundamentalist who was clearly dimly lit! But in my experience “bible christians” who are fervent about their faith are quite full of light and salt for the world, and what I am trying to say is that they are more committed disciples of Christ than those who claim to have the fullness of faith. Especially those that don’t read their bibles or have any prayer life.

Catholics are also very poor on fellowship (interaction outside the Mass). There is a thread on here about how people have this contact. It is a sign that Catholic families and traditional Catholic occasions for interaction don’t exist much anymore.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

I rather, believe my relationship with Christ is far more important than any ritual that has developed.

I am surprised that you would describe communion this way. This is not some “ritual that has developed” but was given to us by Christ Himself!

I do agree that this is all about a relationship to Christ, but the reason we say it is the Source and Summit is not because of some “ritual that developed” but because this is what He taught us.

John 6:53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the S""on of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

Our relationship with Him centers around having His life within us!

I did not mean to be flippant or disrespectful. The verses in John 6 were always explained as Jesus speaking metaphorically. Even Jesus saying He is the Bread of Life does not mean He is a loaf of bread. Eating His flesh and drinking His blood also can mean believing in who He is, recognizing that He gave His flesh and blood as a one time sacrifice for all time for the forgiveness of ones sins, that He rose again triumphant over sin and death, appropriating this knowledge to our own life and faith in Him to make Him Lord and Master aided by the Holy Spirit…without all that we certainly do not have true life in us. Trading the old for the new is the circumcision of the heart.

Not having been raised Catholic it is hard to perceive how the Last Supper was meant to be the summit of our faith. He said do this in Remembrance of me. By a “ritual that has developed” I meant that my understanding of the Last Supper as described in the Bible does not seem to be the liturgical ritual of the Mass in the context of the New Testament. The Last Supper probably took about two minutes. I would have a hard time believing many rituals and understandings have not developed around it.

While I undoubtedly will be clobbered by some for my statements and probably heretical understanding, I ask for only two considerations. 1. I probably have not explained my understanding very eloquently . 2. Remember, it would be just as difficult for Catholics as it is for me, if all of the sudden the CC announced they had it wrong and were now adopting my stance.