Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

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Well even though because of what I personally experienced, allowing me to know someone can be saved outside the catholic church. I will admit that Ive back slided and strayed this past year, and as of right now I’m on the fence about still continuing to be on the Protestant side. Which is why I’m on here, and why I’ve been reading up on catholic apologetics to get the other side of the spectrum.

Because ill admit, even though Protestants vash Catholics for acting too “religious” over having a relationship like I myself did. On the Protestant side I feel like the relationship has become a “make it how you want it” type relationship with God and so it’s like choas. People are interpretating verses in the bible their own way and falling into misleading practices and teachings. Or they fall into the euphoria of singing to the Hillsong worship songs and treat church more like a concert and just show up for their weekly fill. You also have prosperity gospel teachers raking in millions off people by telling them to give and have faith and in return they’ll be financially rewarded and be in good health.

There’s also gay marriage being accepted, practicing homosexual pastors, church’s that Ive seen say that they don’t take the bible as literal, they just believe what it says is important. Its crazy, and it’s why I’m leaning more to the catholic church or even the orthodox church where there’s unity and accountability from what I’ve seen so far.
I totally get your post here. I share many of the same concerns. I do not enjoy many of the “concert” style etc services I have attended. HOWEVER, there are churches within the non-Catholic realm that also have unity and accountability. Certainly there is a lot more within so called “Protestantism” than the type of churches you have described.
 
Yes, good word!

This is why not only our efforts to be reconciled with our Lord are important, but the faithful, who partake of His Eucharist.

We have to connect the dots between our relationship with Jesus and with all those who share His Supper.

“Make it how you want” is in our nature. Catholics do it the same as each of us. We want to think we are giving Jesus complete rule of our beliefs and actions, but we avoid the Spirit when it is too much to receive.

One may have the Spirit beckoning him, and he praise God for the Spirit, and accept Baptism… But even Jesus heavily admonished Peter to allow Him to wash his feet otherwise Peter would have “no part in Me”.

This was a preparation before Communion. This was forgiveness of venial sins at the expense of our Lord. The ritual was required of Peter, not because of dirt on his feet, but his own faults and resistance to Jesus. Jesus offered a gesture of His humility. But His humility was active in that Washing of the Feet.

So too, is His life death and resurrection brought to presence at the gesture of Holy Communion. And with open hearts, we examine our conscience and accept the encouragement of Jesus’ body and blood to do what is right as He reveals.
 
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I think it’s important to prayerfully meditate on what it means to be a member of the Body of Christ. His Body suffered on the cross. Being a member of His Body is exemplified by joining Him on the cross. The road to Martyrdom is joining Christ on the cross. Martyrs drink the cup of Christ’s suffering. His cup of blood is handed to them and they drink it. If this is the visible witness of Christ’s Body it seems to me it must be what it means to be a member of the Body. Sacrifice that is acceptable to the Father in union with Jesus Christ. Isn’t that what Jesus meant when He said unless you eat this Bread you have no life in you? When He broke the bread and said" take this and eat, this is my body"? “This cup is the New Covenant in my blood.”

1 Corinthians 10:16

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?
 
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Eating His flesh and drinking His blood also can mean believing in who He is
Quite Augustinian.He wrote that Peter ate with his confession at the end of the discourse (and perfecr spot for Christ to end the discission). Somewhere he even writes leave your teeth and belly behind (confessed belief is eating…hence ritual became known as eucharist…giving of thanks, which you wouldnt do if you didnt believe).
 
I asked you before to post up that part of confessions yet you never have. I have confessions and don’t recall that, so maybe i missed it. so if you would please post the section i would appreciate it.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Just as an fyi, if you doubt St Aughustine believed it was the actual body and blood of Christ you need to read his sermons. He’s very specific that it is.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Only always explained that way in modern Protestantism. Even those who revolted held it as Christ’ body and blood. With regard to liturgy. When St Paul says he is a servant to the gentiles, the actual greek word is Leitergos,: liturgist. In Hebrews, Christ is called the high priest of the leitergos. If you read the didache, those same prayers are still said in the Mass, and St Justin Martyr on the Mass in 130 AD.:
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But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation.

Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands.

And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge’noito [so be it].

And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.
Still the same way. What Christ brings together are the synagogue and temple worship, The liturgy of the Word, was in the synagogue, The Liturgy of the Eucharist is the Cross. In fact you’ll find biblically the hours of the cross are marked off liturgically for the hours of the watch, Jewish prayer times. The 3 Ancient liturgies are the liturgy of St. Mark, the Liturgy of St. Andrew, and the liturgy of St. James. Further, when you read Hebrews (a liturgical book) and Revelation chaps 4-8 are the heavenly worship, spoken of in Hebrews 12:22-24. And additionally various Prophets, Isa Eze Dan which refer to Christ. So the same worship for the past 2000 years.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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I don’t know why the above post crunched The Justin Martyr citation but here is a more readable way (too many characters in the last post to allow for editing) Dang, still too long, have to cut it into two posts

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do in remembrance of Me, Luke 22:19 this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

cont:

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
And just a personal Note (for those catholics old enough to remember) I wish the Last Gospel Jn 1:1-14 were restored, even though its optional after the dismissal. I think people need to remember for Catholics what the Word of God Truly is:

Rev 19:11Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed which no one knows but himself.
13 He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, followed him on white horses.
15 From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, "Come, gather for the great supper of God,

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Am I correct in understanding that for the Catholic, once he realizes that his parents made him become a Christian by baptizing him when he was a baby, he must confirm that he indeed wants that and after first Communion all he has to do for salvation is believe whatever the Church dictates and as long as he goes to confession at least once a year and does not commit a mortal sin, he will not pass thru the gates of hell?
Hey Wannano, I wanted to address this before i forgot; The apostles were Jews, in every Jewish covenant babies were brought in immediately. God didn’t exclude them until they grew in gnosis. For a Jew it would be inconceivable to leave out their children and babies from a covenant. Even Jesus was brought into the old covenant of Israel as a baby. Baptism, once it is understood from a biblical point of view is a seal of the covenant children are sealed with that covenant. And like Jews with the bar-mitzvah, confirmation is the rite of passage to adulthood. It is a modern invention to keep children out of the covenant until they reach gnosis at the age of consent. As for the church “dictating” i have never been dictated to, However we are catechized and whatever you choose to do beyond that is up to you, unlike irresistable grace in which God forces you to do things, God nor the church forces us to do anything but respects your free will. However there seems to be a misconception with regard to Mortal sin, confession should be pursued immeiately after realizing you have committed mortal sin. Venial sin (things you do by mistake Numbers 15:29-31, which Christ is able to remedy Heb 5:2 the Ignorant and wayward (sins done by mistake and on purpose) because unlike the old priests beset by sin themselves, he has a greater piriesthood. And he gave this ability to the apostles in Jn 20:21-23 as they are part of his body and he works through them.

However unrepentant sin, as Paul tells us in Galatians, Romans and Corinthians “shall not inherit the kingdom of God”

Just an additional thought: Jesus did not come to make Jews into gentiles but rather as St. Paul says to graph gentiles into the Jewish tree. And as he states in those same passages we too can be cut off for not bearing fruit, all it takes is unrepentant sin.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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I asked you before to post up that part of confessions yet you never have. I have confessions and don’t recall that, so maybe i missed it. so if you would please post the section i would appreciate it.
“To what purpose do you make ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and you have eaten already.”

Just as with other quotes that are excised to construct doctrine, using this one excludes other passages on the Eucharist.

“That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, IS THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. Through that bread and wine the Lord Christ willed to commend HIS BODY AND BLOOD, WHICH HE POURED OUT FOR US UNTO THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.” (Sermons 227)

“The Lord Jesus wanted those whose eyes were held lest they should recognize him, to recognize Him in the breaking of the bread [Luke 24:16,30-35]. The faithful know what I am saying. They know Christ in the breaking of the bread. For not all bread, but only that which receives the blessing of Christ, BECOMES CHRIST’S BODY.” (Sermons 234:2)

“What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that THE BREAD IS THE BODY OF CHRIST AND THE CHALICE [WINE] THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.” (Sermons 272)

“How this [‘And he was carried in his own hands’] should be understood literally of David, we cannot discover; but we can discover how it is meant of Christ. FOR CHRIST WAS CARRIED IN HIS OWN HANDS, WHEN, REFERRING TO HIS OWN BODY, HE SAID: ‘THIS IS MY BODY.’ FOR HE CARRIED THAT BODY IN HIS HANDS.” (Psalms 33:1:10)

“Was not Christ IMMOLATED only once in His very Person? In the Sacrament, nevertheless, He is IMMOLATED for the people not only on every Easter Solemnity but on every day; and a man would not be lying if, when asked, he were to reply that Christ is being IMMOLATED.” (Letters 98:9)

“Christ is both the Priest, OFFERING Himself, and Himself the Victim. He willed that the SACRAMENTAL SIGN of this should be the daily Sacrifice of the Church, who, since the Church is His body and He the Head, learns to OFFER herself through Him.” (City of God 10:20)
 
“By those sacrifices of the Old Law, this one Sacrifice is signified, in which there is a true remission of sins; but not only is no one forbidden to take as food the Blood of this Sacrifice, rather, all who wish to possess life are exhorted to drink thereof.” (Questions on the Heptateuch 3:57)

“Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator is OFFERED for them, or when alms are given in the church.” (Letter: Faith, Hope, Love 29:110)

“But by the prayers of the Holy Church, and by the SALVIFIC SACRIFICE, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. FOR THE WHOLE CHURCH OBSERVES THIS PRACTICE WHICH WAS HANDED DOWN BY THE FATHERS that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the Sacrifice itself; and the Sacrifice is OFFERED also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, the works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death.” (Sermons 172:2)

“…I turn to Christ, because it is He whom I seek here; and I discover how the earth is adored without impiety, how without impiety the footstool of His feet is adored. For He received earth from earth; because flesh is from the earth, and He took flesh from the flesh of Mary. He walked here in the same flesh, AND GAVE US THE SAME FLESH TO BE EATEN UNTO SALVATION. BUT NO ONE EATS THAT FLESH UNLESS FIRST HE ADORES IT; and thus it is discovered how such a footstool of the Lord’s feet is adored; AND NOT ONLY DO WE NOT SIN BY ADORING, WE DO SIN BY NOT ADORING.” (Psalms 98:9)

Cherry picking. It makes all the difference!
 
Thanks guanophore I completely missed it, but yeah i figured it was lifted, just like the Barnabas quote and the Augustine quote in chap 10 (which is completely misapplied from its context). I love those sermons though, and why I mentioned he should actually read them. Thanks for posting those up.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Not part of Confessions…not sure from source but has not been repudiated here on CAF…but for sure what usually happens is someone posts some of his other writings that lead some to believe as you…so fear not one can feel his writing on the matter is quite Catholic, or quite Protestant… hey , just like the scriptures on this matter…so it is in the eyes of the beholder
 
as to liturgy of mass and the early fathers…don’t see any petitioning to Father to accept the offering, or praying that it would be, or of a sacrifice we offer to God, ala OT…to the contrary what you see is a thanksgiving for what has already been offered for us, and that quite accepted…if anything of a sacrifice is mentioned, it is one of thanksgiving and praise…also notice a president is mentioned, not a priest , or the bishop, though they may “preside”
 
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If that were all why would eating be a test of faith?
perhaps we misunderstand…the belief is not in real presence but as Peter confessed, that Jesus is the Son God, and is eternal life

No where do I see the early eucharist as being a test of faith , but rather an appreciation, a thanksgiving, a remembrance of the beginning of it , at and thru Calvary…out of obedience to the command for such expression
 
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Actually Guanophore just did, nice try walking it back though 🙂 With regard to h “some” of his other writings, you mean almost all of them? You really should read those ancient catholic fathers instead of cherry picking for apologetics they are a treasure house information.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
disagree with quote that shows the exclusion of others. writings when claiming Augustine seems not so currently Catholic on the subject…One could say Catholics exclude the ones protestants “use”…Been very fair and told Nicene that, as you have done, other writing can be posted to show real presence.

There are other writings that P s like that could be posted, and have been done as you well know, and just recently.

Again, mixed bag, no different than scriptures
 
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